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Speed training for 15k-25k? (Read 1162 times)


Needs more cowbell!

    Ok, since pretty much all of the races I will be doing in the next year are in the 15k-25k range I thought it might be useful to concentrate on the specific speedwork for these sorts of distances. I really can only fit one day of speed work in/week, so I like to make it count. What would you do if these were the sorts of races you were training for? k

    Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

    '14 Goals:

    • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

    • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

      1.) Long runs with a fast finish--do a 4 mile progression run at the end of a long run so your last mile is ~10k pace. You can jog an extra mile to cooldown if you want. 2.) Tempos: 2a.) Short tempos: 20-30 minutes at your 1-hour race pace 2b.) Long tempos: 40-50 minutes at your 2-hour race pace 3.) Cruise intervals with short recovery jogs (1-2 minutes): 3a.) 6 x 1000 at 10k pace 3b.) 5 x 1 mile at 10 mile pace 3c.) 4 x 2 miles at 1/2 marathon pace 2 & 3 should be done in the midst of a long or longish run.

      Runners run.


      I've got a fever...

        I got these from a book called Great Workouts for Popular Races. Haven't tried them yet. There was no chapter on 15k or 25k, so I split the difference and looked at the 1/2-Marathon chapter: 1) 2 x 10-minute work intervals at current 10k pace with 4-5 minute recovery. Add a 3rd 5-minute interval when you're up to it. 2) Running 3~7 mile stretches at PHMP (planned half marathon pace). This is basically a long tempo run. Start at 3 mi, and build up to 7. 3) a version of 2). 5 mi at a very moderate pace, 5mi at PHMP, 1 mile cooldown. 4) 800-1600 superset. Run 800 at 10k pace, then without stopping, run 1600 at PHMP. 5 minute recovery, then 2 more supersets. 5) This one looks like a mutha: 400-1200-3200 superset. Run 400 fast, 1200 at 10k pace, 3200 at PHMP without stopping. Recover 5 minutes and repeat. Dead I've never tried these supersets, but I'm intrigued by them. Usually I like to run negative splits, so I like workouts where you get faster as you go -- supersets force you to run continuously, but slowing down as you go. I think the deal is that after you've hauled ass at the beginning of the superset, the latter part at PMHP will feel slow and easy in comparison. Dude also recommends running 10k races as being great training for the 1/2 (and presumably 15k and 25k). Your pace for a 15k will be about 12sec/mile slower than 10k speed, and 25k pace is about 26sec/mile slower than 10k pace, so 10ks are a good way to calibrate expectations for the longer races. This dude also recommends what he calls lactate stackers: 6 x 1 minute real fast (but controlled), with 2min recoveries. build up to 12. Short, almost sprint-like runs like this seem counter-intuitive for running loner races, but the idea is that running really fast helps form, economy, and explosiveness -- improving these improves running at all distances. Cheers, Jeff

        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


        Needs more cowbell!

          Hmmm...so my beloved fatrleks and hills aren't likely to be as useful for these distances, huh? Dang. Those are the things I love doing most (yeah, how sick am I that I think hills are hella fun?!). Ok, here's a dumb question. How does one "know" what his/her given race pace is while on a speed workout run? I haven't run enough races of any given distance to instinctively feel how fast I am going (heh, and the difference between any of my race paces isn't really all that great...my fast is still slow, just less slow than my slow, KWIM?). Is this where a Garmin would come in (please say no...it's not really in the budget at the moment), or can this be done with a stopwatch in some way? k

          Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

          '14 Goals:

          • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

          • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


          I've got a fever...

            Hmmm...so my beloved fatrleks and hills aren't likely to be as useful for these distances, huh? Dang. Those are the things I love doing most (yeah, how sick am I that I think hills are hella fun?!).
            Well, the guy also recommended hill work. Hills are good for just about any race b/c they improve strength and form. I missed this the first time, but dude recommends 2x1 mile up a long gentle hill (~3% grade) at 25k race pace, eventually working up to 4 reps. He even says have someone drive you down the hill rather than run down b/c of the length and the pounding. Sounds like a hassle -- if you have a treadmill, this would be a good 'mill workout. I think fartleks are still great too, but you probably will want to run longer work intervals since you're looking at longer races. Pacing comes from experience, and yes from gadgets, but you can also use the mapping tool on this site to figure out where mile-markers are on your courses so you can estimate pace. And it sounds like a good 10k may be a good idea to your gauge your current fitness -- then at least you can estimate what you think your 15k and 25k paces should be (based on the estimates in my first post). And some of these workouts (like the supersets) are really meant for a track, so you can check your pace there. It's really a matter of feel though. Do I feel like I could sustain this pace for 6 miles? 10k pace. Do I feel like I could hold this for 15 miles? 25k pace. Cheers, Jeff

            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

              In my opinion, there's not a great deal of worth in complicating things by worrying about different race paces and hitting exact targets. Garmins are an unnecessary luxury and would only think about getting one if you really really need to know exactly how fast and how far you've gone at any given point. Tempo pace to me is a pace that's quicker than steady run pace but not too quick that I'm hurting badly and need to stop. I tend to run to how I feel and not to certain pace guidelines. You wouldn't think so, but it's a very simple sport. You go out and do easy miles, every now and again you throw something a bit faster in. You improve to a point and then if you want to improve some more you do more easy miles and a bit more faster work and so on. I leave the scientific stuff to the people who enjoy that side of it.
                In my opinion, there's not a great deal of worth in complicating things by worrying about different race paces and hitting exact targets. Garmins are an unnecessary luxury and would only think about getting one if you really really need to know exactly how fast and how far you've gone at any given point. Tempo pace to me is a pace that's quicker than steady run pace but not too quick that I'm hurting badly and need to stop. I tend to run to how I feel and not to certain pace guidelines. You wouldn't think so, but it's a very simple sport. You go out and do easy miles, every now and again you throw something a bit faster in. You improve to a point and then if you want to improve some more you do more easy miles and a bit more faster work and so on. I leave the scientific stuff to the people who enjoy that side of it.
                You just became my new hero! (Me clapping enthusiastically, doing the wave ... etc.) Seriously. Can I get your autograph? ----------------------- There is a problem, though: while I fully agree with you - your worshipfulness - the problem is that if runners don't talk about all the useless details that don't really matter (and talk ... and talk ... and talk ...) ... then running communities either get really, really quiet ... ... or they end up like this place: http://runningahead.com/groups/2000/Forum Or worse yet, they end up having conversations like this one: http://runningahead.com/groups/2000/Forum/437163e92fb24a83ba05d55075c6a5d6 Then it's nothing but boobs and beer. And who wants that?
                E-mail: JakeKnight2002@aol.com
                -----------------------------

                  Hmmm...so my beloved fatrleks and hills aren't likely to be as useful for these distances, huh? Dang. Those are the things I love doing most (yeah, how sick am I that I think hills are hella fun?!).
                  Hell no that's not what I'm saying! You asked what specific speed workouts we would do if we were training for those specific distances. Those are what I would do (and have done many times) if I wanted to maximize my performance at those specific distances...but here's the thing...I LIKE those workouts I listed. Listen! There's general funning fitness and there is specifically preparing for an event. Hills, fartleks, and all sorts of other things are great for general running fitness and will definitely help you get faster and enjoy the races you have planned. If your goals are to have fun running, get fit and go into your 15k and 25k races with enough fitness to enjoy the run and see some progress from last year and you ENJOY your hills and fartleks the by all means keep doing them. Also, you don't need to know your exact pace to do those workouts. Just estimate. And if you really want to know your exact pace without a garmin then do them on the track to learn what the paces feel like. I agree 100% with djlovesyou that the garmin is a luxury that you don't need in order to get faster and enjoy the sport. But for me it was a luxury I COULD AFFORD and that I ENJOY using from time to time. I use it about twice a week, primarily as a data collection tool--not to tell me how fast I am or should be running during the workout. That I can do by feel. In fact if you haven't yet learned how to do this by feel I think the garmin can hinder your progress. I have done dozens if not hundreds of workouts like the ones I described above, most of them way before I owned a garmin and many of them without knowing how far I'd gone or exactly how fast. Run it by FEEL! Big grin Wow. I need to take a breath. I drank a LOT of coffee this morning and just went for an extremely pleasant run and it's 57 degrees outside right now.

                  Runners run.


                  Needs more cowbell!

                    Listen! There's general funning fitness and there is specifically preparing for an event. Hills, fartleks, and all sorts of other things are great for general running fitness and will definitely help you get faster and enjoy the races you have planned. If your goals are to have fun running, get fit and go into your 15k and 25k races with enough fitness to enjoy the run and see some progress from last year and you ENJOY your hills and fartleks the by all means keep doing them.
                    Phew, I was hoping you guys would say that! I have a feeling that if I were to plan too many speed workouts that I don't eagerly look forward to that I would be less likely to do them. Wink
                    Wow. I need to take a breath. I drank a LOT of coffee this morning and just went for an extremely pleasant run and it's 57 degrees outside right now.
                    Bzzzz...coffee!!!! Sounds just a few degrees warmer than us--it is GORGEOUS out here, too. Unfortunately (or fortunately) it was my weight training day, today, so no run (my legs have felt pretty tired on my last couple of runs, anyhow, so time for a break). Tomorrow is my long run and I really hope the rains hold off until I am home. I did my hills on Weds. in 32ยบ downpour with snowflakes mixed-in. Spring is so weird.

                    Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

                    '14 Goals:

                    • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                    • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)


                    I've got a fever...

                      There's a lot of conflicting but equally valid points-of-view on this thread. A lot of the workouts and pace-specifics can be daunting, but I suppose that's what happens when I start quoting from books written by exercise physiologists. Everyone's different, and I'm one of those people who does tend towards the scientific side. Back in the day when I was doing serious intervals, I was checking my watch every 200m on the track to make sure I was staying on my goal pace. When I start doing intervals again in the future, I'm sure I'll be the same way. What's fun for one person may sound completely sucktastic to another. That being said, running stops being fun if you become too much of a slave to pace and time as opposed to running by feel. Do your hills and fartleks, and just remember that in order to be prepared to run longer races like the 15k and 25k, you'll also need to have some longer sustained efforts as part of your training. And remember you if you do some grueling workouts that you don't want to do more than 2 per week. Good Luck, Jeff

                      On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                      Needs more cowbell!

                        Do your hills and fartleks, and just remember that in order to be prepared to run longer races like the 15k and 25k, you'll also need to have some longer sustained efforts as part of your training.
                        I'm thinkin' this is where the virtual races come in! Big grin k

                        Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

                        '14 Goals:

                        • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                        • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)

                          My best piece of advice for doing speedwork is to feel good and feel fast. Keep telling yourself how good you're looking and how you're floating over the ground. I always do this but I'm weird. I apologise for my earlier 'luddite' type response. I'm an old-fashioned youngy, think I got it from my coach at university.


                          I've got a fever...

                            My best piece of advice for doing speedwork is to feel good and feel fast. Keep telling yourself how good you're looking and how you're floating over the ground.
                            Easy for you to say, dude -- you took my best mile time and ran it for three! Shocked Wink Seriously, this is excellent advice! Big grin The voices inside my head are usually saying, "Suck it up weak-ass!" Angry Maybe I need to try some of this positive thinking stuff...

                            On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.


                            Needs more cowbell!

                              My best piece of advice for doing speedwork is to feel good and feel fast. Keep telling yourself how good you're looking and how you're floating over the ground. I always do this but I'm weird.
                              *sits next to dj on the weird bench* I do the same damned thing.

                              Kirsten - aka "Auntie Kirsten"

                              '14 Goals:

                              • 2 olympic distance duathlons -- 6 days apart -- PR at least 1

                              • 130#s (and stay there, gotdammit!)