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Running rock climbing and weight lifting? (Read 1230 times)

runrockclimb


    Hi guys, got a question... or two. A little background first. I run, currently 4 days a week, but I will be bumping it up to 5 in the next week or two as I start serious training for my next half marathon the end of November. I also rock climb, two or three days a week for about an hour at a time, possibly more. Its mostly bouldering, so short spurts of hard effort, followed by standing around. Usually I climb the 50 ft wall once or twice a week. Effort wise its a lot like running a mile at a good clip. Anyway I want to pick up some weight training to improve both my running and my rock climbing and because I just like lifting. My two questions are what do you think would be a good weight training program, and how many days a week would be appropriate? I don't want to over train or hurt myself.

      Adding an extra day of running would give you the most benefit towards half marathon training, as well as paying attention to the types of running workouts that you do, with tempo and long runs being extremely important.  My own experience suggests that, when I am good shape (not right now, I look like an egg), I can do one hard workout of a particular type per week, and that I need at least two days between hard workouts.  This might be tempo Tuesday, hills Thursday, long Sunday, for example.  If you wanted to work your legs, you might substitute the hills day for weight lifting.  Do high repetition sets to increase muscle endurance without adding bulk and reduce the chance of injury.  If you aren't doing anything but running at the same old pace every day, then you could get away with weightlifting legs three days a week -- can you equate the bouldering to a leg weightlifting workout?  Upper body can be done on easy running days, maybe twice a week.  Probably upper body will help more with the climbing than the running.  But the climbing is good, since it presumably works the core? 

       

      Maybe it is just me, but I can really notice a difference if I maintain a base of 40+ miles/week of running with marathon-specific workouts as compared to 25-30 MPW of plain old running + cross training.  I think it is important to have a good running program nailed first and then add cross-training for additional stimulus.

      2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

        Bodyweight exercises are a great way to get started - they're effective, safe and don't need a gym membership.

         

        Press-ups, pull-ups, dips and crunches give a good upper body workout. 

         

        A cheap door frame pull up bar is worth getting if you don't have somewhere convenient to do them.

         

        In each case I'd plan to do them every other day (although there's no need to do them all at the same time - you can do different ones on different days).

         

        Always focus on being slow and in control and maintain really good form through the full range of motion. Don't fret about how many you're doing because there's some guy on youtube who claims to be able to do thousands of press-ups (mostly these people are doing some kind of weird head-bobbing exercise that bears very little in common with a proper press-up).

         

        Do 3 or 4 sets to failure with a couple of minutes rest between each set. If you find you can do more than 15 on the last set with really good form before failure then you should increase the difficulty. So, take pressups as an example. To increase difficulty you can do them more slowly, you can do them with very wide hands or hands together, you can hold them at the bottom for a few seconds, you can wear a backpack with some books in, you can do them with you feet high - e.g. on a bed; you can do them with your hands down by your waist. Mix it up - try all of these things on different days; and combine them.

         

        Many people find that doing press-ups on the palms stresses the wrist unnecessarily - so try doing them on your knuckles. For this to be comfortable you'll want a nice soft carpet or a couple of folded up towels.


        Black-Toe-Nailed

          Many people find that doing press-ups on the palms stresses the wrist unnecessarily - so try doing them on your knuckles. For this to be comfortable you'll want a nice soft carpet or a couple of folded up towels.

           

          I got myself a piar of boxing gloves to do them (well, also to do some boxing of course). 
          Another good alternative is the door pull-up bar: placing it on the floor you can use the handles to do variations with parallel grip or pronated grip.

           

          Anyway, I guess that being him a rock climber he will have had plenty of this type of workout already...

           

          (crap, sometimes I really miss Spain were I just had to walk a few streets to climb real rock... here in Holland we just have cows, well and cheese, but you can't climb these).

          --

          "If one can stick to the training throughout the many long years,
          then will power is no longer a problem. It's raining? That doesn't matter.
          I am tired? That's besides the point. It's simply that I just have to."

          Emil Zatopek

          runrockclimb


            I got myself a piar of boxing gloves to do them (well, also to do some boxing of course). 
            Another good alternative is the door pull-up bar: placing it on the floor you can use the handles to do variations with parallel grip or pronated grip.

             

            Anyway, I guess that being him a rock climber he will have had plenty of this type of workout already...

             

            (crap, sometimes I really miss Spain were I just had to walk a few streets to climb real rock... here in Holland we just have cows, well and cheese, but you can't climb these).

             Just for clarification, I'm a she. :-) But I don't think I ever mentioned that. You rock climb? That is great, its hard to find climbers that do anything else somewhat seriously, at least around here. Right now I do all gym climbing, we have lots of amazing places to climb near where I live, but gear is expensive and I'm in school. I've been collecting stuff slowly, just picked up my first rope a few weeks ago, now I need some quick draws, a helmet, a more experienced climber to join me. I'm hoping in the next month or so to get started really climbing outdoors.

            I think I will invest in a pullup bar, I've been thinking about one for a bit anyway

            runrockclimb


              Bodyweight exercises are a great way to get started - they're effective, safe and don't need a gym membership.

               

              Press-ups, pull-ups, dips and crunches give a good upper body workout. 

               

              A cheap door frame pull up bar is worth getting if you don't have somewhere convenient to do them.

               

              In each case I'd plan to do them every other day (although there's no need to do them all at the same time - you can do different ones on different days).

               

              Always focus on being slow and in control and maintain really good form through the full range of motion. Don't fret about how many you're doing because there's some guy on youtube who claims to be able to do thousands of press-ups (mostly these people are doing some kind of weird head-bobbing exercise that bears very little in common with a proper press-up).

               

              Do 3 or 4 sets to failure with a couple of minutes rest between each set. If you find you can do more than 15 on the last set with really good form before failure then you should increase the difficulty. So, take pressups as an example. To increase difficulty you can do them more slowly, you can do them with very wide hands or hands together, you can hold them at the bottom for a few seconds, you can wear a backpack with some books in, you can do them with you feet high - e.g. on a bed; you can do them with your hands down by your waist. Mix it up - try all of these things on different days; and combine them.

               

              Many people find that doing press-ups on the palms stresses the wrist unnecessarily - so try doing them on your knuckles. For this to be comfortable you'll want a nice soft carpet or a couple of folded up towels.

               I've been doing a long fartlek workout and a hill workout, or a short farlek and tempo run each week, plus and easy run, and I try to do a longer run as well. I think I might put off the weights, at least for lower body, until after my race, but I am still thinking about adding some upper body/core for variety and it'll help support both my running and climbing. I think you're right though probably no more than twice a week and on easier running days. While I'm in school I have access to a great gym so I might as well use it, I pay for it no matter what.

                I'm a runner and a rock climber as well, and I'll say I'm not sure if weight training is the best way to improve on either sport. I've found the best improvements in rock climbing from doing work on the training wall at the gym, and the best improvements from running by running, well, more. 

                 

                Wish I could run more now, but the long road back from injury is limiting how many miles I can put in.

                 

                Running and rock climbing are an odd couple in exercise, glad to see some other people here on RA who do both!

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                www.miloandthecalf.com

                 

                  I'm a runner and a rock climber as well, and I'll say I'm not sure if weight training is the best way to improve on either sport. I've found the best improvements in rock climbing from doing work on the training wall at the gym, and the best improvements from running by running, well, more. 

                   

                  Wish I could run more now, but the long road back from injury is limiting how many miles I can put in.

                   

                  Running and rock climbing are an odd couple in exercise, glad to see some other people here on RA who do both!

                   

                  +1 to specificity.   I also do both, though I almost never log my rock climbing.  I tell myself I will, I made an activity for it...then I don't.  It's a 45 minute to one-hour plus drive whenever I want to climb, indoors or out.  This led me to building a bouldering cave in my garage.

                   

                  I think general core work outs help (and I personally started doing shoulder work after my shoulders ached post-marathon once...then never had the issue again), and pull-ups/hang board work help climbing a decent amount.  Otherwise, I do my weight training pretty much for its own sake.  The ones I do are pretty much taken from Pfitzinger's Advanced Marathoning. I find doing it 2X a week doesn't impact my running, even when I'm up to as much as about 80/week or so.

                   

                  I am also bad about logging strength work, though.

                  "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                  Emil Zatopek

                    I also run and rock climb, though running is my priority by a long shot. I find that the more I focus on running, the less energy I have for climbing. I try to make it to the climbing gym twice a week but lately I've barely been going at all. I do lift weights twice a week consistently but I do it mainly for aesthetics and whatever health benefits it has. I'm not sure it it really helps my running (maybe very slightly), and despite the fact that I've gotten MUCH stronger over the last year in terms of # of pull-ups I can do, how much I can bench, etc., it hasn't helped my climbing as much as I wish it would. To echo what others have said, I think specificity is where it's at - climb to get better at climbing, run to get better at running.  

                    runrockclimb


                      It is so great to find so many other runners who climb, I had no idea there were so many of us. It is like was said before, and odd pairing.

                       

                      I don't expect big gains in my climbing just because I start lifting, a lot of climbing is the technique, but my gym is small and limited and I feel like adding weights would help me past my most recent plateau. I hope getting outdoors will really help me expand my skills, but thats still a ways out.

                       

                      Anyway I guess some of my desire to weight lift is for the variety, and the looks. So I think I'll give lifting a try, and as long as its not negatively impacting my running, I'll keep it up.

                       

                      Thanks for the advice.

                        Do you have a hangboard or a campus board? That and a system-board or HIT strip set-up would probably be good strength training for climbing. You can add weight (w/ a weightvest) when you're ready. Other than that I'd focus on push-ups, pull-ups, dead hangs/one-armed deadhangs - stuff like that. My boyfriend is a serious climber and this is what he does, plus a bit of core/stability work. I'm still too much of a novice to be using a hangboard etc. - but if you're more advanced it's great.

                        MrNamtor


                        DON'T TREAD ON ME

                          I've done some boulder climbing and I do a sort of parkour routine. Parkour can be very similar to rock climbing, and guys (and gals) who do it do mostly body weight exercise to condition themselves.

                           

                          If they do lift weights, the exercises they do are the full body ones (squats, dead lifts, things like that).

                           

                          In my humble opinion, weight lifting is not that beneficial to either running (except maybe sprinting) or rock climbing.

                           

                          On the other hand, you said you LIKE to lift, and so if that's the case, then lift away.

                           

                          If you're interested in some great conditioning exercises and learning a bit more about parkour, here are some pretty good vids.

                           

                           

                           

                           

                           

                          ( On this one,go to 10:38 to see the applicability to rock climbing)    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bJJl7S9Z4PQ

                           

                          http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGzepBg216M