2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 389 times)

darkwave


Mother of Cats

     

    3 weeks out is always tough because then you have the taper after, so you can't cut as much as you would if you did a tune up half 5-6 weeks out, which is why I like them more (you take the down week, then go back up for a couple more week, then taper). For those, I do 70% cutback. However, for the week prior to taper, you probably shouldn't more than 20% (so 80%)

     

    If darkwave is around, she may be able to chime in more as I know she likes the tune up half 3 weeks out. She may have a different view.

     

    Sorry - long hard week, so playing a bit of catch-up now.

     

    Yes, I do the tune-up half marathon 3 weeks out - it's raced all out, not a long marathon pace workout.  I do the last long run four weeks out, and then taper fully for the half.  Then after the half, I recover, which blends into taper.  So you could see it as four weeks of taper with a half-marathon race stuck in there.

     

    It takes a bit of faith to run low mileage for that long before the marathon, but it works for me.  Part of that might be that I get a big fitness boost from racing half-marathons all out.

    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

     

    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

    flavio1980


    Intl. correspondent

      Jmac - it seems my memory betrayed me.

      It used to be about 2 weeks, but on my last Half PR I was able to run a 5k about 9 days later.

      So I'd say I'm probably recovering in around 7 days.

      Steve has a good point : higher mileage average leads to shorter recoveries.

      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

      Up next: Some 5k race in September

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      JMac11


      I spilled the milk

        I thought it was generally accepted that you need 1 day recovery for every mile of hard racing? Like Flavio, I need 2 light easy weeks after a half although after my last 2 I’ve felt recovered a bit quicker, I guess due to my increased mileage and resilience. I still wouldn’t try a hard workout for 2.5 weeks. I’m probably overly cautious after consistently getting injured in the 2 weeks after a race.

         

        I think that's for beginners. I follow the rule of 1 day per 3-4K raced. That tends to line up with my experience. And again, that range is for getting back to workouts. 6 days for a 10K seems extreme to me. I can easily do my mid-week workout after a Saturday 10K.

         

        And definitely on the mileage: even running 50 MPW, I'd have trouble walking the next day after a half. Once I was hitting 75+, it just feels like you did a hard workout the day before, not the "I can't walk down stairs right now" feeling I used to get. Or maybe it's just more years of running them? I don't know.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

        Ian5


          That's sort of what I was thinking without the taper in to the half.

          What do you think about 62,65,50(Inc half) 40 and 30 then race week for the next 6 weeks?

           

           

          Sorry - long hard week, so playing a bit of catch-up now.

           

          Yes, I do the tune-up half marathon 3 weeks out - it's raced all out, not a long marathon pace workout.  I do the last long run four weeks out, and then taper fully for the half.  Then after the half, I recover, which blends into taper.  So you could see it as four weeks of taper with a half-marathon race stuck in there.

           

          It takes a bit of faith to run low mileage for that long before the marathon, but it works for me.  Part of that might be that I get a big fitness boost from racing half-marathons all out.

          5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            That's sort of what I was thinking without the taper in to the half.

            What do you think about 62,65,50(Inc half) 40 and 30 then race week for the next 6 weeks?

             

             

            My strong preference is to truly taper for the half, rather than train through it.  I don't think you get any gain from running a sub-par performance due to tired legs, and you could dig yourself into a hole or come away with an injury that won't clear in time for the marathon.  I think this is one example of where more is not always better.

             

            Of course, there are probably others who have benefited from your approach (not tapering).

             

            If you're NOT going to taper, I would do the half as a marathon pace workout.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            mmerkle


              Race Report:

               

              Runnymede 8k, last leg of the Twilight Series and probably my last race for a little while. Rain stopped just before the race and it was much cooler than expected, about 78 degrees, but as humid as possible. There was steam lingering in the air throughout the race. This course had some rather intense rolling hills throughout, with a very long and decently steep hill in the last mile. It was an out and back course as usual, and the way back was much more difficult. Stayed in 2nd place solo the whole way and came 2nd overall. Was able to put on a good strong kick into the finish, but then I came very close to throwing up after, not sure why, that's highly unusual for me. This race sealed a series win for me which I'm happy about, nice confidence booster for me going into marathon training, which officially starts this Sunday!

               

              Random thought: After doing 5 races this summer, one every 2 weeks, I almost feel addicted to racing. It's going to feel weird going without it for a bit. Can't wait to toe the line again. Will probably do some 10k-half races leading up to the marathon this fall.

               

              Some Splits: 1 mile: 5:53, 4k: 14:53, 3 mile: 18:14, Overall: 30:40.

              JMac11


              I spilled the milk

                Darkwave - Ian's suggest is almost a 25 percent cutback. Seems reasonable to me (I do 30 but that's splitting . How much do you cut off the week of the half?

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Grete's Great Gallop 10K (8/27)

                Marky_Mark_17


                  Normally around this point approaching races coach tends to drop the volume a bit and up the intensity.  That is precisely what happened.  Off to Sydney for work this week so will be nice to run in some different places.  Funnily enough I haven't been in Sydney basically since I first started running in 2015.

                   

                  Weekly for period: From: 01/08/2022 To 07/08/2022

                  Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                  in m
                  01/08 That run with another quality excursion to the deadzone 11.81 19.01 01:15:28 06:23 03:58 36
                  02/08 That run with the Mexican wave of sensor lights 6.25 10.06 00:41:03 06:34 04:05 60
                  03/08 That run with an empty bucket of KFC and an empty box of Smirnoff Ice on a park bench in Mission Bay 8.71 14.02 00:56:06 06:26 04:00 28
                  04/08 That run with fog, glorious fog 8.78 14.13 00:53:21 06:05 03:47 83
                  06/08 That run where we finally got the good part of winter 8.25 13.27 00:49:42 06:01 03:45 92
                  07/08 That run where the little park is finally open 14.08 22.66 01:39:29 07:04 04:23 237

                  Total distance: 93.14km (57.89 imperial wingdings)

                  3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)  

                  10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                  * Net downhill course

                  Last race: Southern Lakes HM, 7 May, 1:12:42 (May-22)

                  Up next: Auckland 10km Road Champs, 21 August

                  "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    Mark - Nice week of bringing the focus to the racing.  It will be great to see a few more races in here!

                     

                    me - Biggest week ever and it went mostly without a hitch.  Wednesday was my first foray back into speed after keeping it easy for 2 weeks with a head cold.  I was working a bit on the last repeat.

                     

                    Saturday is probably the second biggest long run workout I've ever done - I did a 36km with 3x7km @ MP last year.  The forecast was for severe gales so I ran at the park to reduce the length of time into the wind each time, but in the end it was actually quite calm.  Much warmer than it has been (about 15C, 60F) which I thought would make it a good test of nutrition and fitness.  That's the sort of weather I can expect on race day, hopefully no hotter.  I was going really well, including dodging a massive tree which came down over the path and on to the road and a parked car when I was a few hundred metres away.  It was a miracle no-one was hurt.  On my 2km of MP, towards the end, I had to go round the tree, winding through the emergency services and on grass and that's when I got a painful cramp on my inner left thigh, which has happened before.  I stretched for about 30 seconds and I could still vaguely feel it, but it calmed down enough to allow me to finish.  I took 3 gels, 2 electrolyte drinks and 1 bottle of water.  That's probably about half of what I'll have in the race.

                     

                    The tree came down around where I normally park but there were no car parks available because of Saturday morning sport, luckily.  If I had been very unlucky my car would have been crushed, but more likely it would have been in the section of road that was closed all day which would have been a pain.  I heard a huge roar then the ground shook and before I saw the tree I thought we were having a reasonably big earthquake.

                     

                    https://www.stuff.co.nz/the-press/news/300655606/a-large-tree-has-fallen-onto-parked-cars-by-christchurchs-hagley-park

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 01/08/2022 To 07/08/2022

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in m
                    01/08 Warm up 0.34 0.54 00:03:12 09:25 05:56 0
                    01/08 Easy pace 9.45 15.21 01:15:25 07:59 04:58 27
                    01/08 Strides 0.73 1.17 00:05:38 07:43 04:49 0
                    03/08 Warm up 0.33 0.53 00:03:11 09:39 06:00 0
                    03/08 Med-Long incl. 4 x (7 mins @ 4:20-25, 3 mins easy) 12.50 20.11 01:36:35 07:44 04:48 21
                    04/08 Recovery 5.54 8.92 00:48:15 08:43 05:25 11
                    05/08 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:06 08:51 05:32 0
                    05/08 Easy pace 7.52 12.11 01:01:22 08:10 05:04 11
                    05/08 Strides 0.74 1.19 00:05:57 08:02 05:00 0
                    06/08 Warm up 0.35 0.56 00:03:20 09:31 05:57 0
                    06/08 Long incl. 5km @ MP, 1km easy, 4km @MP, 1km easy, 3km @ MP, 1km easy, 2km @ MP, 1km easy, 1km @ MP 22.41 36.05 02:56:44 07:53 04:54 25
                    07/08 Recovery 5.12 8.24 00:46:00 08:59 05:35 10

                    Total distance: 105.19km (65.38 mi)

                    Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                    Race plan:  Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                    flavio1980


                    Intl. correspondent

                      Mark - That sounds like a nice few days away in Sydney, enjoy the workation.

                       

                      Steve - you getting chased by trees now LOL

                      Nice work, you’re coming into shape very well and you gained a ton of endurance.

                      Also, that’s nearly 3 hours out there running, it’s MIGHTY impressive!

                       

                      me - I also got a little victory this week as I managed to run 2 hours for my long run. Also 2 strong strength training sessions. The strength training is paying off as I'm getting stronger in these runs, I was full of run during the long run today.

                      I'm also now getting a ton more elevation than during marathon training last year.

                      My target race is the national 5000m masters championship in mid September, so roughly 40 days till race day to round int some sort of shape and see what happens.

                       

                      Weekly for period: From: 08/01/2022 To 08/07/2022

                      Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                      in ft
                      08/02 70'E 8.66 13.93 01:10:00 08:05 05:02 315
                      08/03 3x(10'@6:20-6:36 w 3'E) 9.23 14.86 01:09:02 07:29 04:39 335
                      08/04 70' Recovery 8.17 13.15 01:10:01 08:34 05:19 348
                      08/06 Morning Run 8.06 12.97 01:05:00 08:04 05:01 387
                      08/07 2h long run 🍾 15.30 24.62 02:00:01 07:51 04:52 571

                      Total distance: 49.43mi

                      PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                      Up next: Some 5k race in September

                      Tool to generate Strava weekly

                      Ian5


                        Steve-That's a belter of a long run,I find it hard increasing/decreasing pace so well done.

                        Flavio-Nice to see you're back over the 2 hour mark,good place to be.

                        I had a really good week,first 60+ week in 2 years with one of my most comfortable long runs also.Decided to run with my wife today as we don't usually get chance.

                        Weekly for period: From: 08/01/2022 To 08/07/2022

                        Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                        in ft
                        08/01 Afternoon Run 11.54 18.57 01:35:21 08:16 05:08 489
                        08/02 Afternoon Run 7.06 11.36 00:57:22 08:08 05:03 315
                        08/03 Afternoon Run 9.89 15.91 01:23:05 08:24 05:13 495
                        08/04 Afternoon Run 7.05 11.34 00:59:06 08:23 05:13 315
                        08/06 Morning Run 20.55 33.06 02:49:03 08:14 05:07 873
                        08/07 Recovery Run 7.06 11.37 01:05:13 09:14 05:44 315

                        Total distance: 63.15mi

                        5k 17:35,10k 36:43,10m 61:55,HM 1:24:03,Full 3:07:39

                        darkwave


                        Mother of Cats

                          Darkwave - Ian's suggest is almost a 25 percent cutback. Seems reasonable to me (I do 30 but that's splitting . How much do you cut off the week of the half?

                           

                          So....I don't think of the taper strictly in terms of % of mileage (in large part because I think mileage is only one component of a training cycle).

                           

                          For me, when I run a half-marathon at the end of a marathon training cycle as a tune-up, the entire week before the half looks about the same as if I was running the half as a goal race itself.  The only real difference is that if the half was the goal, I wouldn't do a significant long run the weekend before - I'd probably stick to 12 miles.  But once I get to Sunday afternoon/Monday morning, I consider the marathon cycle concluded, and I act as though the half was my goal race.  Then after I run the half, I refocus to the marathon.  Make sense?

                          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                           

                          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                          darkwave


                          Mother of Cats

                            MMerkle - congrats on the race and the series.  I think you're in a good place going into the cycle.

                             

                            Marky_Mark - safe travels!

                             

                            Steve - that is absolutely terrifying about the tree coming down so close.  I am glad the timing was in your favor.

                             

                            Flavio - the training is looking very good!

                             

                            Ian - nice solid week for you.

                             

                            ***

                             

                            My week:

                             

                            59 miles running, 5 hours pool-running, and 1500 yards swimming.

                            M: 4.5 miles very easy on treadmill (9:51), followed by 60 minutes pool-running and upper body weights/core.
                            T: 12 miles, including a track workout of 2x(1600, 800) and then 400 and 2x200. Splits were 6:45, 3:18, 6:38, 3:12, 94, 47, and 47. Recoveries of 4:45 and 5:34 after the 1600s, 2:42 recovery after the first 800. Full recovery for the 400 and 200s. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                            W: Streaming yoga and 12 miles very easy (9:54) plus drills and four hill sprints.
                            Th: 2 hours pool-running and upper body weights/core.
                            F: 12.5 miles, including a tempo workout on the treadmill of 7 sets of 5 minutes at tempo effort (speed 8.2-8.3) with 1 minute jog in between. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                            Sa: 18 miles (9:27), mostly easy but with a fartlek of 10x(1:30 at marathon effort/6:30 easy) starting in the second hour. Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming, and then 30 minutes pool-running (keeping an injured friend company).
                            Su: Streaming yoga and 90 minutes pool-running.

                             

                            Emotionally draining week - an old (non-running) friend passed away suddenly from a heart attack (early 50s, no previous cardiac issues that I'm aware of, worked really long hours at a tech start-up in the bay area of California).   Our circle of friends is devastated, as am I.

                             

                            Unrelated, I accepted a new position and gave my two weeks (plus a few days) notice at work.  Running seems very secondary to all of that.  But I got the work in, and found some escape in it.

                            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                             

                            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                            DavePNW


                              DW - wow, so sorry about your friend, how awful.
                              Congrats on your new job though. I don’t know anything about your old or new situation, but there’s always something liberating about a fresh start.

                              Dave

                              ccoakley


                                Mark, nice week.  Will you stalk Strava to see if there are any crowns to be had in Sydney?  Safe travels

                                 

                                Steve, I am so ready to see you just run this marathon already!  You've been crushing it!

                                 

                                Flavio, congrats on getting back up to 2 hrs.  Is it typical for runners focusing on 5000m to also run 15 mi runs?  I know speed and endurance are 2 different things but I don't see how that doesn't give you a huge boost.


                                Ian5, 60! very impressive

                                 

                                DW, so sorry to hear about your friend.  Congratulations on the new job, I assume you picked one that still gives you all the flexibility you had in terms of running.

                                5k 24:53 (2020) |10k 52:24 (2021) |HM 1:57:14 (2019) |FM 4:24 (2007) |50k 5:57 (2022)