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Just a little help .. (Read 858 times)

    Hey guys, I've just got a few questions. I know there are a million threads on this already, but I do not feel any of them related directly to my question, so I decided to start a new one. I'm sorry if this is any kind of annoyance or anything, but I did not want to mix two different stories into one thread, thus making that one less of a resource for their initial question. Okay, so I had never really run before until last summer. I started running for 2 weeks, and then I'd get lazy and stop, and this happened maybe 3 times. It was never that I was too out of breath, or tired. I mean I had some sore muscles here and there, but it was mostly just me not taking it seriously enough to keep doing it. But when I was doing it, I really enjoyed it. Being outdoors, the time alone, the thrill and the push it gave me when I wanted to stop and walk, but to rather run that extra block. So my girlfriend and her family got me a membership at the local Gold's Gym for Christmas this past year, and I intiially was going there to lift weights (I was giving it a try to see how I liked it -- I did for a while, but I just lost the interest after a while. It was just too boring for me to sit there and lift metal week after week, and watch my body slowly change, not sure if I even wanted to take it a direction. Also, the risk of injury was just too great for me to risk on my wrists and joints; being a graphic designer and all) And all the while, while lifting, I kept looking over at the treadmills, thinking about running. Anyway, for the past month and a half I've been running on those treadmills, and once in a while outside. You can look at my log - I've been averaging about 1.5 - 3 miles every run about 3 times a week. Doing between 10:15 - 11:30 miles. But I've come to a problem. I don't know where to go from here. I know the first thing I need to do is set up goals, and I guess my goal is to be doing more of an average of 3 - 5 miles per run, and I'd like to be doing under 10 minute miles. But on the treadmill it's difficult to really know if I am running as fast I can, or how good of intervals I have because if I am not sure if I am faster than the speed "5.5" or not, and i am basing it off of how fast a machine is making me move, rather than how fast I can push myself. I am also having to compensate those first 20 seconds of highering my speed, and doing a warm up before beginning, so I don't think it is giving me a good, accurate read. So what do I do? I imagine I need to start running outside more, especially now with spring coming. This way I can really see how I am with not having to worry about pushing buttons. Is this what you guys think? Do you guys think running outside will give me that accuracy I crave? And in terms of a treadmill, what are its advantages? I am planning on still using the gym alot, and I'd like to use the treadmills still, but I am wondering what are the best things to use it for? And lastly, being that I am already off the couch, and running what I think is a pretty decent distance. Besides the couch to 5k plan, does anyone else have any good plans or anything I can follow to help reach my goals? Sorry if this is so much for a post, and I guess the topic title "little help" really is misleading ... Dead
    "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine


    The voice of mile 18

      well for "accurate" intervals you can do repeats at your local high school track. typically each lap is a quarter mile treadmills are sometimes convenient and easier to run on when the weather sucks though they can be boring i like halhigdon.com for his training plans check him out

       Tri Rule #1 of Triathlon Training/Racing - If Momma ain't happy nobody is happy 


      Lazy idiot

        Wow! Lots of info here. Welcome to RA, Derek! I understand your crave for accuracy, but I don't think it's something I'd worry about just now. Running on a treadmill will actually be more "accurate" in terms of pace than anything you'll get outside because you're mostly running at a mechanically determined speed. Outdoors and on your own, there will be incredible amounts of variation. That said, I'd highly recommend moving yourself outdoors and away from a TM as soon as possible. It's simply more fun. Also, you'll be able to know that it's you doing the running and not the machine. I think TM's a great for inclement weather running (I use them myself), but nothing beats outdoor running. Next, you're looking for a goal. There are many things you can choose, among them I would suggest a 5-k race. If you're not in it for the racing, I'd suggest slowly adding more time/distance to your regular runs and/or increasing the number of days you're going at it. Simply put, you want to get better at running? Run more. I also understand the desire to get faster. I've found that if I focus more on consistency and mileage that the speed increase comes naturally. It may not be the best thing to jump into running and head right for increasing your speed. When you first start running, it's an incredibly exciting time. I know, it wasn't too long ago for me. It's worth remembering that different body systems (cariorespiratory, muscular, skeletal) develop at different paces, and that it could be quite a while before your bones are ready to handle more intensity. So be careful, and listen to your body. Basically (you'll find variations on this mantra many places throughout RA)... run a lot, mostly easy, sometimes hard, do some hills. Oh... and have fun. Good luck! Big grin

        Tick tock


        You'll ruin your knees!

          Hi Derek, This is a great place to find a little help! Hopefully, lots of runners who have just gotten started in the past year will share their experences. These should be valuable to you, as those runners have recently been were you are and their experence will match up well with yours. If there is any way to get connected with others of like interest, I believe that is the best way to get started. Finding others who you can run with on occasion is a great wayto get encouragement and learn more about what to do, not to do, etc. It is also a great way to get hooked into the accountability for getting out there. Running can be a highly social event (particularly in Nashville), maybe you can find a group near you. A good way to find a group is to check at the local running store...we're talking specialty running store here. Often those retailers will be a meeting place for runners to join up and have mid-week and/or weekend runs. Otherwise, take care to listen to your body as you make changes to your routine. I wouldn't worry too much about speed now. You should be running at a pace that might leave you a little winded, but definitely able to maintain a conversation. As you build a bigger mileage base, then you can get a better idea of what gets you blood pumping, that is whether you feel the need for speed or long and slow is better for you. Good luck and welcome, Lynn B

          ""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

            Welcome to running! I'm coaching "Beginning Women's Running Class" next month (it's an 8-week course) and am in the middle of putting some hand-out together including some easy tips and schedule. I've been quite fascinated with those beginning running programs, and I think C25K is wonderful and quite clever (the name?). However, there was something I felt missing and that's why I came up with my own based on C25K. I was just talking to a friend of mine about the influence of Arthur Lydiard on jogging. I was watching that NOVA marathon challenge program and, while I was very much touched (I'm a sucker for that kinda thing and am a big fan of Betsy!); I couldn't help but think; the fastest guy in that group, supposedly genetically gifted guy, did 4:09 something. Not a bad time at all for today's standard. They had a group of 12 people, I'd say, mostly early to mid-30s??? A couple of older guys... Most of them ran the full marathon in about 5:30~6:30 range with 40 weeks training. It's amazing to think that their FIRST long run was 2 miles! And 40 weeks later, they all (but one) ran 26 miles! That shows an incredible adaptation of human body. But at the same time, couldn't help but wonder... Lydiard had a group of 20 people--the youngest was 50, the oldest 74. They ALL had had at least one heart attack (some more) prior to this. 8 months later (32 weeks), 8 of them completed the full marathon. I very much doubt, though don't have the actual stats, that they were running very much slower than 4-hours... It is highly doubtful that they were ALL genetically superior to millions of people "running" the marathon today. It's got to be in the program. Okay, I digressed right from the beginning. Treadmill... Now with your question of whether running on treadmill is more accurate than running outside. I think running on treadmill is 10-times more accurate! Granted, it seems that the figures a very slightly off from machine to machine; brand to brand. But the numbers are cold-cut; it is what it is. On the other hand, running outside; temperature, wind, road condition and all those things will come in to play. In short, there's NO way you can accurately understand what you're doing outside. That being said, I personally think it's completely useless to worry about those details. As a matter of fact, I think it's no use letting treadmill dictate your training. I strongly suggest anybody, if they want to run on treadmill, to cover the screen so you have no idea what you're doing; just change the speed as you FEEL right. We all have biorhythm; day's condition and your stress level and all are different day to day. You might feel very comfortable running 5.8MPH one day; next day 5.2MPH might feel a struggle... If you try to slow down simply because you think 6.0 is too fast, I think you'll miss out a great workout; and with the same token, if you try to push the pace to up to 5.8 simply because you "felt it was easy 2 days ago"; then you'll be pushing too hard. You've GOT to learn to listen to your body; not machine, any machine even heart rate monitor and stop watch around your wrist. Perhaps HRM is a bit more reliable--I sometimes when I'm going slower than usual and still struggling, I'd chack my HR and see if they are higher than normal at slower pace. It most probably is (higher). Slow down. Don't try to stick to a certain pace just because you did it last week. Go by how you feel. Also, this might be off the topic but your time WILL come down once your fitness level improves. Once again, don't try to run faster progressively simply because you want to run 10-minute pace by certain time frame. Don't ever draw a line and say, okay, I'm running at 11:30 pace today; I want to be running 10 by the end of May so next week, I should be running at 11:20 pace... Let the pace come to you; don't chase it. If you do that, that (on the paper) is the only place your pace is getting faster. If you do that, as Lydiard used to say, that kind of program is "not even worth the paper it's written on."
              well for "accurate" intervals you can do repeats at your local high school track. typically each lap is a quarter mile treadmills are sometimes convenient and easier to run on when the weather sucks though they can be boring i like halhigdon.com for his training plans check him out
              Cool, Yeah I checked out that website, and it has some good stuff. i will definitely give it some more reference, and the local track sounds good as well. I have one literally 2 blocks from my house. Thanks.
              "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine
                Wow! Lots of info here. Welcome to RA, Derek! I understand your crave for accuracy, but I don't think it's something I'd worry about just now. Running on a treadmill will actually be more "accurate" in terms of pace than anything you'll get outside because you're mostly running at a mechanically determined speed. Outdoors and on your own, there will be incredible amounts of variation. That said, I'd highly recommend moving yourself outdoors and away from a TM as soon as possible. It's simply more fun. Also, you'll be able to know that it's you doing the running and not the machine. I think TM's a great for inclement weather running (I use them myself), but nothing beats outdoor running. Next, you're looking for a goal. There are many things you can choose, among them I would suggest a 5-k race. If you're not in it for the racing, I'd suggest slowly adding more time/distance to your regular runs and/or increasing the number of days you're going at it. Simply put, you want to get better at running? Run more. I also understand the desire to get faster. I've found that if I focus more on consistency and mileage that the speed increase comes naturally. It may not be the best thing to jump into running and head right for increasing your speed. When you first start running, it's an incredibly exciting time. I know, it wasn't too long ago for me. It's worth remembering that different body systems (cariorespiratory, muscular, skeletal) develop at different paces, and that it could be quite a while before your bones are ready to handle more intensity. So be careful, and listen to your body. Basically (you'll find variations on this mantra many places throughout RA)... run a lot, mostly easy, sometimes hard, do some hills. Oh... and have fun. Good luck! Big grin
                I can see what you're saying about the treadmill actually being very consistent compared to the outdoors, because as someone on here mentioned... number don't lie. They are honest and there. But I think my problem is that I was worrying about speed so much, and everything, and I was just trying so hard to go fast and everything, and I ended up doing a 5.5 the whole way and in the last 2 minutes (like if I wanted to have a 20 minute mile and a half), I would jump it up to 7.6!!! And this I'm sure was not smart at all. So with this considered, I realize that now I am going to just worry about being able to build up my distance and stamina and worry less about everything else .... also get my butt outside!! Cool
                "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine
                  Hi Derek, This is a great place to find a little help! Hopefully, lots of runners who have just gotten started in the past year will share their experences. These should be valuable to you, as those runners have recently been were you are and their experence will match up well with yours. If there is any way to get connected with others of like interest, I believe that is the best way to get started. Finding others who you can run with on occasion is a great way to get encouragement and learn more about what to do, not to do, etc. It is also a great way to get hooked into the accountability for getting out there. Running can be a highly social event (particularly in Nashville), maybe you can find a group near you. A good way to find a group is to check at the local running store...we're talking specialty running store here. Often those retailers will be a meeting place for runners to join up and have mid-week and/or weekend runs. Otherwise, take care to listen to your body as you make changes to your routine. I wouldn't worry too much about speed now. You should be running at a pace that might leave you a little winded, but definitely able to maintain a conversation. As you build a bigger mileage base, then you can get a better idea of what gets you blood pumping, that is whether you feel the need for speed or long and slow is better for you. Good luck and welcome, Lynn B
                  Lynn Thank You for your insight! I think you're right about making it a much more social thing. Looking at the gym, we have most wieght lifters, and most of the people on the treadmills are people who walk, for cardio whom regularly lift, or over weight folks trying to cut down, but there are a few runners, who I can tell know what they are doing, and it really wouldn't hurt for me to ask them for some advice, or if they run outside at all and where. and like I told Drew "I think my problem is that I was worrying about speed so much, and everything, and I was just trying so hard to go fast and everything, and I ended up doing a 5.5 the whole way and in the last 2 minutes (like if I wanted to have a 20 minute mile and a half), I would jump it up to 7.6!!! And this I'm sure was not smart at all." But thank you for your feedback, and the luck.
                  "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine
                    Welcome to running! I'm coaching "Beginning Women's Running Class" next month (it's an 8-week course) and am in the middle of putting some hand-out together including some easy tips and schedule. I've been quite fascinated with those beginning running programs, and I think C25K is wonderful and quite clever (the name?). However, there was something I felt missing and that's why I came up with my own based on C25K. I was just talking to a friend of mine about the influence of Arthur Lydiard on jogging. I was watching that NOVA marathon challenge program and, while I was very much touched (I'm a sucker for that kinda thing and am a big fan of Betsy!); I couldn't help but think; the fastest guy in that group, supposedly genetically gifted guy, did 4:09 something. Not a bad time at all for today's standard. They had a group of 12 people, I'd say, mostly early to mid-30s??? A couple of older guys... Most of them ran the full marathon in about 5:30~6:30 range with 40 weeks training. It's amazing to think that their FIRST long run was 2 miles! And 40 weeks later, they all (but one) ran 26 miles! That shows an incredible adaptation of human body. But at the same time, couldn't help but wonder... Lydiard had a group of 20 people--the youngest was 50, the oldest 74. They ALL had had at least one heart attack (some more) prior to this. 8 months later (32 weeks), 8 of them completed the full marathon. I very much doubt, though don't have the actual stats, that they were running very much slower than 4-hours... It is highly doubtful that they were ALL genetically superior to millions of people "running" the marathon today. It's got to be in the program. Okay, I digressed right from the beginning. Treadmill... Now with your question of whether running on treadmill is more accurate than running outside. I think running on treadmill is 10-times more accurate! Granted, it seems that the figures a very slightly off from machine to machine; brand to brand. But the numbers are cold-cut; it is what it is. On the other hand, running outside; temperature, wind, road condition and all those things will come in to play. In short, there's NO way you can accurately understand what you're doing outside. That being said, I personally think it's completely useless to worry about those details. As a matter of fact, I think it's no use letting treadmill dictate your training. I strongly suggest anybody, if they want to run on treadmill, to cover the screen so you have no idea what you're doing; just change the speed as you FEEL right. We all have biorhythm; day's condition and your stress level and all are different day to day. You might feel very comfortable running 5.8MPH one day; next day 5.2MPH might feel a struggle... If you try to slow down simply because you think 6.0 is too fast, I think you'll miss out a great workout; and with the same token, if you try to push the pace to up to 5.8 simply because you "felt it was easy 2 days ago"; then you'll be pushing too hard. You've GOT to learn to listen to your body; not machine, any machine even heart rate monitor and stop watch around your wrist. Perhaps HRM is a bit more reliable--I sometimes when I'm going slower than usual and still struggling, I'd chack my HR and see if they are higher than normal at slower pace. It most probably is (higher). Slow down. Don't try to stick to a certain pace just because you did it last week. Go by how you feel. Also, this might be off the topic but your time WILL come down once your fitness level improves. Once again, don't try to run faster progressively simply because you want to run 10-minute pace by certain time frame. Don't ever draw a line and say, okay, I'm running at 11:30 pace today; I want to be running 10 by the end of May so next week, I should be running at 11:20 pace... Let the pace come to you; don't chase it. If you do that, that (on the paper) is the only place your pace is getting faster. If you do that, as Lydiard used to say, that kind of program is "not even worth the paper it's written on."
                    Hey, I think thats really cool about the class you're going to be coaching and all. I wanted to put my hand out there to you, as a graphic designer, and say that if you need any help with the flyers or anything of that sort, I'd love to help you out, just lemme know. If you read my responses to everyone else, I touched base about what you said about the treadmill being very accurate in fact. So please look at that, because I see no point in writing it three times Big grin But your advice about the pace I will take to heart for sure, because like I said in another reply, I was just trying so hard to go fast and everything, and I ended up doing a 5.5 the whole way and in the last 2 minutes (like if I wanted to have a 20 minute mile and a half), I would jump it up to 7.6!!! And this I'm sure was not smart at all!
                    "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine


                    Lia's Daddy

                      Just my two cents on treadmills... When I got back into running about a year and a half ago I was running exclusively on a treadmill at the YWCA. I started with running 2 miles for a week then bumped it up to 3-4 miles, always above 6 miles an hour and many times between 7 and 7.5. 8 weeks later I was in the Doctor's Office with a severe stress fracture. While I was injured I switched to a lot of Mt. Biking and road biking. I kept myself in good cardio shape. After my final check-up with the Dr., when he gave me the green light to begin running again, I went out for a nice easy 5 mile run (in hindsight, I now know that was to long). It felt great. Runing at my own speed and comfort level made all the difference. I have not gotten on a treadmill since. My injury was not caused by a treadmill and I am not trying to imply as much. My injury was caused by running at a pace that was not natural for me. Most of my training runs now are at about 10 m/m. The difference is that when my body feels the need to slow I can and then speed up when it feels right as well. A smart person would do that on a treadmill as well, I guess, but not me. To this day I will go out and run in the freezing rain before I get on a treadmill. I know that it is in my head but those machines scare me.
                      "Stadiums are for spectators. We runners have nature and that is much better." Juha "the Cruel" Väätäinen
                        Derek, I was in a similar state as you last March. Just getting into running and wondering where to go next. For me, the best thing that helped me figure out where I wanted to go was to sign up for a race. In my case, it was a 5 miler that served pancakes at the end. I am not what you would call a competitive person when it comes to physical activities - for me it was about challenging myself - and of course, the pancakes. I found that not only did the "looming" race motivate me to continue and better my running - I also enjoyed the atmosphere of races. At races you will find people from all walks of life, all age groups, and all levels of running ability. I found that as slow as I was, I fit right in - but I also wanted to get more physically fit and faster. As others have said, increasing your miles - nice and easy - is a good recipe for success. Miles make speed. Don't sweat the details yet. Just run. Participating on Running Ahead is probably the biggest non-physical thing that has helped me. The support, motivation, and advice I got and get here have been a big part of my running journey. Another thing that continues to help me is membership in a local running club (or clubs as the case may be). There you will meet even more people doing the same thing you are. A lot of them have training groups that run together once or more per week. In addition, many clubs hold regular races that are available to you free or at a discounted rate. I've also volunteered at a few club races - not only did I get a chance to give back to running - I also got to meet a lot of great people and see running from another viewpoint. Hang in there - and welcome to RA.

                        When it’s all said and done, will you have said more than you’ve done?

                          Just my two cents on treadmills... When I got back into running about a year and a half ago I was running exclusively on a treadmill at the YWCA. I started with running 2 miles for a week then bumped it up to 3-4 miles, always above 6 miles an hour and many times between 7 and 7.5. 8 weeks later I was in the Doctor's Office with a severe stress fracture. While I was injured I switched to a lot of Mt. Biking and road biking. I kept myself in good cardio shape. After my final check-up with the Dr., when he gave me the green light to begin running again, I went out for a nice easy 5 mile run (in hindsight, I now know that was to long). It felt great. Runing at my own speed and comfort level made all the difference. I have not gotten on a treadmill since. My injury was not caused by a treadmill and I am not trying to imply as much. My injury was caused by running at a pace that was not natural for me. Most of my training runs now are at about 10 m/m. The difference is that when my body feels the need to slow I can and then speed up when it feels right as well. A smart person would do that on a treadmill as well, I guess, but not me. To this day I will go out and run in the freezing rain before I get on a treadmill. I know that it is in my head but those machines scare me.
                          No, no, you are saying exactly what it was I was trying to say in terms of The difference is that when my body feels the need to slow I can and then speed up when it feels right as well. A smart person would do that on a treadmill as well, I guess, but not me. I really can't tell when I'm on a machine if I am running too fast, or too slow, or what, but out on the road, I know when I need to slow and can do so pretty quickly. And at a much faster rate then having to jam buttons. I think what I've taken from everyone's reply is this -- the treadmill can be a great running tool, and is good for an easy run, at a moderate speed. It's good for your heart and when it's really bad outside, but when I really want to give myself a safe run, where I can push myself a little, do some hills, and slow down as need be.
                          "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine
                            My thoughts… Keep your routine simple and fresh. Get out the door and run. Do not feel like you have to push yourself. If you are enjoying it, that is good! Couple your running with entertainment (mp3 player or radio), if it gets dull. This past Christmas, I almost received gym membership for the year as a gift. For me, I expressed that it was not a fit, because I did not want to drive 10-15 minutes to the gym and then 10-15 on the way back. It did not seem like a very good use of my time. I explored getting a membership at a YMCA near my work, but I still did not feel it was convenient enough for me. Overall, running has positively worked on my personality for the better. I have a different perspective on time and distance. I consider myself fairly patient, but running has made it easier to deal with other non-trivial things.

                            Vim

                              Derek, I was in a similar state as you last March. Just getting into running and wondering where to go next. For me, the best thing that helped me figure out where I wanted to go was to sign up for a race. In my case, it was a 5 miler that served pancakes at the end. I am not what you would call a competitive person when it comes to physical activities - for me it was about challenging myself - and of course, the pancakes. I found that not only did the "looming" race motivate me to continue and better my running - I also enjoyed the atmosphere of races. At races you will find people from all walks of life, all age groups, and all levels of running ability. I found that as slow as I was, I fit right in - but I also wanted to get more physically fit and faster. As others have said, increasing your miles - nice and easy - is a good recipe for success. Miles make speed. Don't sweat the details yet. Just run. Participating on Running Ahead is probably the biggest non-physical thing that has helped me. The support, motivation, and advice I got and get here have been a big part of my running journey. Another thing that continues to help me is membership in a local running club (or clubs as the case may be). There you will meet even more people doing the same thing you are. A lot of them have training groups that run together once or more per week. In addition, many clubs hold regular races that are available to you free or at a discounted rate. I've also volunteered at a few club races - not only did I get a chance to give back to running - I also got to meet a lot of great people and see running from another viewpoint. Hang in there - and welcome to RA.
                              THanks for the inpsiration! It was great to hear from someone who was in my shoes not too long ago and some great advice for really getting into it. Sorry my reply is not longer, but I am at work right now Confused
                              "Some people create with words or with music or with a brush and paints. I like to make something beautiful when I run. I like to make people stop and say, 'I've never seen anyone run like that before.' It's more than just a race, it's a style. It's doing something better than anyone else. It's being creative." - prefontaine