Forums >Racing>2018 3:20 (and beyond)
Cobra Commander Keen
Rune - I haven't had those issues with gels, myself. Which one(s) have you taken? It's likely an issue with the amount of blood flow to your gut at harder efforts - perhaps a different gel would be easier to tolerate. It's a bit old, but there's a nice gel-related flow-chart here: http://fellrnr.com/wiki/Comparison_of_Energy_Gels
DWave - You mentioned Maurten - have you tried that stuff before? I've heard people asking about it locally, but Tulsa is the only place in the state that has any so no one has tried the stuff yet.
Brew - That's easily the shortest, least internal dialogue-y RR I've seen from you! You had quite the HR jump towards the end of the first mile, too. A week off should be good. 4.5 months wasted? Ha! Training is cumulative, my step-up-from-imaginary friend! I'm interested to see what you can do after another cycle. The ridiculous happiness of tiny humans is a lot of fun.
Ilana - Congrats on the run and the awesome change in weather.
There seems to be a bug going through my house. DD2 has at times been acting like she's not feeling well, and DD3 has a fever as of last night and certainly isn't feeling well. The rest of us have been spared, for now at least.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
Strict WTF adherent
I've mentioned this issue in the 1:30 thread as well, but has anyone here had problems with gels at harder efforts, but been ok with them at m-pace or slower?
Yes. I probably push marathon pace a little more aggressively than most, and typically can't stomach more than one or two gels over the course of a race. But I can take them when going slower. I've done the Aussie carb load a few times while taking just a little Gatorade during the race and been fine (Including my PR, in which I didn't even drink water after the halfway point).
Ilana - That looks nice. I just looked at flights into Denver. Then I remembered I don't run anymore.
FB - Hoka is trying to go mainstream. These shoes look "normal," which kind of makes me sad.
Speed Surplus
"Anyone ever run Eugene, or know of a Spring marathon on the west coast?"
I did Eugene in 2016 - ran 3:22 with a 1:38/1:44 split.
It's a pretty flat course with one decent hill early on. It's a small race without major crowd support, but that's honestly my preference. There isn't a ton of shade, however, and I happened to get a slightly warm and sunny day which contributed to the fade.
That said, I liked it way more than the Portland course. I'm not sure what's going on with the start/finish at this point because they tore down Hayward field - you used to finish on the track like Pre, but...there is no track at the moment.
5:27 / 18:49 / 40:32 / 88:12 / 3:12
I never had cramps in my LRs or even half marathons that I have run (40+). I used to do my long runs 18+ without any food. I carry water if it is more than 15 miles. For the race, I trained with UCAN. 2-3 scoops of UCAN before the run, and water during the run. Gels after 2 hrs.
One thing that is different is , I had UCAN before the run and Gatorade during the race instead of water. Not sure if that would cause any electrolyte imbalance.
Rune, Interesting to note that gels negatively impacted your performance for temp and hard workouts. I have UCAN for my long and MP workouts and temp runs. Psychologically, I feel better and perform better.
Arvind -- cramping sucks because there isn't anything you can do about it. It's not like you can push through muscles that aren't firing. It's like they aren't yours. Good luck working through it. I'm not sure if you have cramps on your LRs, or if that would tell you a lot. Have you tried running on no food or water during training to see if your body adapts?
Thanks for the input my gel issue all. I will probably take them for my race but might rely more on the sports drinks they serve than usual.
Brew - There's always Oakland Marathon in the spring, although they screwed p on the distance this year. They now say next year's race will go over the east span of the bay bridge to Yerba Buena Island and back, so it won't be as flat as last year. There is also the Napa Valley marathon in early March, 300 ft elevation drop from start to finish.
Keen - Thanks for that link, I think I've seen that flowchart before. I guess my only issue is that I don't get an upset stomach from the gels, performance just seems to decrease. He does mention SiS as a good alternative, and I had some laying around that I got from a race once and they seemed to work well for me. I actually have a box of those coming from amazon tomorrow, but since they take up a lot of space I can only carry 2 or 3 of those.
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Problem Child
I never had cramps in my LRs or even half marathons that I have run (40+). I used to do my long runs 18+ without any food. I carry water if it is more than 15 miles. For the race, I trained with UCAN. 2-3 scoops of UCAN before the run, and water during the run. Gels after 2 hrs. One thing that is different is , I had UCAN before the run and Gatorade during the race instead of water. Not sure if that would cause any electrolyte imbalance.
Nothing new on race day. If you're doing long runs without food I'd have gone in to the race without them. I sampled gels. If you didn't train with gatorade I wouldn't switch to it on race day. I bought the specific gatorade for training because it wasn't "normal" gatorade. My issue was different than yours but it's possible the two things together didn't help out. For the next race I'll be using gels on each long run and I'll be specifically targeting race day time (45 minutes) along with water. I'd encourage you to do it also just because of the cramps since both of our race disasters were nutrition related, not weather related.
sc glad you've run it. It looks flat which might suck simply because mentally running rollers breaks it up. I'd do Tunnel however the whole "no GPS" and "max could swing by the finish line" kind of scares me. Didn't Portland get canceled or something? Dissolved according to Google. At least Eugene has GPS.
ilana I'll check it out. The downside is the elevation.
rune DW mentioned Napa. I'm a little worried Oakland could be windy or a bad weather race. I know Jim is the local expert on the course. It would make a great strava title though. "that time I was chased through Oakland" just might work.
Photos are out. I have an EPIC heel strike.
big cottonwood marathon. September 14, 2019. I think this would be the LAST option for a 4/20/20 entry.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
"I'd do Tunnel however the whole "no GPS" and "max could swing by the finish line" kind of scares me. Didn't Portland get canceled or something? Dissolved according to Google. At least Eugene has GPS."
The "no GPS" thing is overblown at tunnel. I had GPS at the start, and then my watch used cadence when I was in the tunnel and actually estimated my splits incredibly accurately. I then had rock solid GPS for the rest of the race after the tunnel. And who knows, maybe next year will be the year they get the mile markers right, on the 20th try!
It is actually a fantastic race, IMO. The course is beautiful and the downhill is significant enough to give an advantage, but subtle enough that it doesn't feel like you're pounding your body to pulp. Even running in the tunnel (which I thought might be weird) was a cool, otherworldly experience.
Now, as for Max swinging by the finish line, that is a realistic fear, I'm afraid. Fortunately for me, he simply handed me a few cups of water and took a photo. I feared he'd suggest a 50-mile cooldown or something of that nature, but he was remarkably restrained.
Yes, Portland is kaput, but they're working on putting a new race together. The old route wasn't that great, although I suppose it was a bit historic. Hopefully they come up with something better.
sc he would probably bring me something light and hoppy. Also, Eugene ends at the football stadium. Maybe they hand out footballs in one endzone and you spike them on the other. No GPS for Chicago seemed a little overblown. Multiple people measured it around 26.8 this year. Must be getting better satellites. #tinfoil
Mother of Cats
Brewing - Tunnel or Eugene both came to my mind. I've never done either, but heard good things about both. Another one to consider is RNR AZ in January. That's a good race that doesn't get the respect/attention it deserves, IMHO.
There's also a Mountains to Beach Marathon in Southern California.
About not getting what's so great about the WMM? Well, they're reliably well organized. What marathons have you done besides CIM and Chicago? If you've only done well-organized marathons (and those are two of the best) you might not know what you are so fortunate to miss.
I ran today - calf was achy, then loosened up, and was fine. So hopefully I'm out of the woods.
Ended up doing a very cautious 5 miles to yoga (9:35), then yoga, then another 7 miles very easy (8:37) to my allergy shots. Did 3 "miles" pool-running at lunch just to get some more blood through the calf (I fervently believe that pool-running is one of the best things you can do for most soft-tissue issues - it's the combination of increased circulation, cold water, and compression from the water pressure.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Resident Millennial
lol lol.
brew- the oakland marathon is retooling their course so it goes on the bay bridge pedestrian path (which, mind you, doesn't even make it all the way to the other side of the bay bridge - just to treasure island). so it'll be much flatter than the old course, fewer annoying zigzags, maybe they'll even get the distance right, and it'll be much louder thanks to carmageddon on the bridge. that's in March.
_________________________________________________mile, 5:26 /5k, 19:34 /10k, 41:00 /13.1, 1:31:49 /26.2, 3:12:58
Local marathons. Twice. Not an ideal course for a PR (involved trail section through a park, single track and a wall to navigate) but it made me respect the well organized races. The local race once started an hour late. I think it has 200 people or less and the second time I did it was the last time it was certified. It’s now 25.7 and it calling itself a BQ. it’s also a week before that east coast unicorn race and doesn’t appeal to many local elites anymore. I’m sure most have won the overall at this point.
I was looking at some of the others you mentioned. I thought about your proposed rule when I looked st the biggest downhill I could find and almost called myself a cheater.
Brewing - Tunnel or Eugene both came to my mind. I've never done either, but heard good things about both. Another one to consider is RNR AZ in January. That's a good race that doesn't get the respect/attention it deserves, IMHO. There's also a Mountains to Beach Marathon in Southern California. About not getting what's so great about the WMM? Well, they're reliably well organized. What marathons have you done besides CIM and Chicago? If you've only done well-organized marathons (and those are two of the best) you might not know what you are so fortunate to miss. I ran today - calf was achy, then loosened up, and was fine. So hopefully I'm out of the woods. Ended up doing a very cautious 5 miles to yoga (9:35), then yoga, then another 7 miles very easy (8:37) to my allergy shots. Did 3 "miles" pool-running at lunch just to get some more blood through the calf (I fervently believe that pool-running is one of the best things you can do for most soft-tissue issues - it's the combination of increased circulation, cold water, and compression from the water pressure.
Rick
Good stuff on the nutrition discussion. Completely forgot about that and need to come up with a plan. Last time I ran Carlsbad someone had a beer table at mile 24. I wonder if I can make it until then.
Kicking the dog - I have a Chihuahua and he is a butt head. They have the worse attitudes, then again, it does make them unique. Couldn't you have outrun him? Short legs, usually lazy, and all bark. I have one one one of my routes, I just plan a stride at that location.
Max - It was kind of a test week to get my mileage up and make sure I didn't aggravate injuries. Shorter runs did the trick. As for the hill repeats, they are done easy and are my recovery runs. The 50k coming up has some big hills so I need to keep the hiking legs for a couple of weeks. As for showering, my wife is in Europe and is not necessary (kidding). Have a great race (mountain climb).
Brew - Carlsbad?
12-22 Last One Standing - dnf 37 miles
1-23 Sun Marathon - 3:53
3-4-23 Red Mountain 55k - 7:02
4-15-23 Zion 100 - 27:59
With all the effort that I had put into Chicago, I feel that I should give another shot this fall. Thinking of Richmond again Nov 11. Is that too soon for another race?
pie man
The marathon majors thing mostly applies to elite field, doesn't it? Otherwise they're just a bunch of big marathons in big cities. Most don't even have that much history, Grandma's goes back as much as Chicago...
Ran up a burn area trail (River fire, not Ranch) and took my phone for pictures this time. Put most of 'em on strava. It was merely 1500 feet in 2 miles so nowhere near Max territory. They took a dozer up it at some point, which does not help with trail running.
Might race Saturday on the coast.
11:11 3,000 (recent)
beryl too soon. January would mean I'd need to jump right back in to training now.
arvind November 11 is sooner than CIM. I wouldn't expect much of a difference unless you figure out what caused the cramps. Two marathons in 5 weeks sure seems hard on the surface. You might do well if you recover quickly.
rlk I'll look into Oakland. Maybe even hang out with jim & Rune while I'm there. Was it long in the past? After looking at the course it's a TON of turns, but at least some rolling hills which might break up the flats. Almost like someone had a long run planned but wasn't sure about the distance or where they'd go. I guess that makes it spectator friendly. The only POTENTIAL downside is training here in winter could involve ice...or sub 30 degree temps. Yes I have a hampster wheel in the garage.
keen Any update on the OKC Marathon entry? I see it's around the end of April... Flat course with a cross wind for half of it right?
Marathon shopping sucks. How do I know which one I want? Location? Weather? Major downhill? BQ %? Date? Potential to gain more "Less than Imaginary Friends"?