12345

Heart Rate Help (Read 1047 times)

    I think heart rate training can be a useful tool...but it's very easy to get overly obsessed with.  If you use it as a tool to help you learn to listen to your body, more power to you.  It can be awesome for that.

     

    If you use it in place of that, well.  It's inadequate.

     

    You have a ton of room to improve.  Run more.  Run often.  Run easy, mostly.  Sometimes, run fast.  At this stage of the game, you don't need to get bogged down in details unless, perhaps, you have trouble telling yourself, honestly, if a run is easy or not.

    "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
    Emil Zatopek

    markrice


    Geezer trying for speed

      I think heart rate training can be a useful tool...but it's very easy to get overly obsessed with.  If you use it as a tool to help you learn to listen to your body, more power to you.  It can be awesome for that.

       

      If you use it in place of that, well.  It's inadequate.

       

      You have a ton of room to improve.  Run more.  Run often.  Run easy, mostly.  Sometimes, run fast.  At this stage of the game, you don't need to get bogged down in details unless, perhaps, you have trouble telling yourself, honestly, if a run is easy or not.

       

      Great points. One great point is that I OFTEN use HR to slow myself down... especially my LR runs which I had been overdoing... so easy to do. HR helped me do those at a reasonable level and then I began doing better at other types of runs too (LT is faster, LR is slower, GA is even slower, recovery is very slow... all calibrated for me).

       

      I especially like your point that you MUST listen to your body (regardless of what kind of running you do). Specifically with HR, one must recognize factors that can cause changes in HR and listen to your body to calibrate what it should be in those conditions. I go more into that in my HR page and I compare a race with hot weather and a race with cooler weather. In both I had to listen to my body for the first few miles to calibrate what my HR target should be... from then on, it was a monster help.  As you get to know your personal HR numbers from training, this type of listening to ones body is easier and easier.

       

      Many just don't like going through the time to learn what their body is telling them for all these runs. I find it enabling... keeping me slow when I should be slow, and fast when I should be fast (which is much less often than a newbie would usually think).

      Anyone could see races, etc. on www.markrice.com/running.

      I believe in HR training: www.markrice.com/running/heart_rate_training.html

      xor


        daaaaaamn.   intimidated. hee.

         

        MrNamtor


        DON'T TREAD ON ME

          cookie monster is a medical technician. ER, i think, right?

          markrice


          Geezer trying for speed

            Glad you are not intimidated. Sorry if I implied anything to you in error. Many to whom I've talked have told me that they were intimidated by the overhead of HR monitoring (HR Max, calibrating for multiple conditions, etc.) and I should not have generalized that to you.

             

            HR has been a huge help to me and I hope the posts show some how they might use HR to their advantage.

            Anyone could see races, etc. on www.markrice.com/running.

            I believe in HR training: www.markrice.com/running/heart_rate_training.html

            MrNamtor


            DON'T TREAD ON ME

              Glad you are not intimidated. Sorry if I implied anything to you in error. Many to whom I've talked have told me that they were intimidated by the overhead of HR monitoring (HR Max, calibrating for multiple conditions, etc.) and I should not have generalized that to you.

               

              HR has been a huge help to me and I hope the posts show some how they might use HR to their advantage.

               

              If it makes you feel any better, I actually AM intimidated by the heart rate stuff and that's probably why I'm against it.

                I did a little heart rate training early on when I was trying to figure things out.  Oh wait, I am still trying to figure things out.  Anyway... I don't use my heart rate monitor anymore.  It did give me one really useful piece of info about my body, though.  I now know that when I get  a certain feeling in my neck (feels like it is tightening up), my heart rate is over 170.  In a 5K, I would just ignore that. When I'm running longer distances, it means I need to slow down so I can make it to the end.

                 

                If I ran the majority of my miles at the heart rate a lot of places recommend, I'd be bored to tears because I'd be moving so slow. That is part of the reason I no longer use it. The other reason is that the strap is really uncomfortable and can chafe.

                 

                It can provide useful info for you.  I'd recommend using one to see what you get.

                Live the Adventure. Enjoy the Journey. Be Kind. Have Faith!

                   It did give me one really useful piece of info about my body, though.  I now know that when I get  a certain feeling in my neck (feels like it is tightening up), my heart rate is over 170.  In a 5K, I would just ignore that. When I'm running longer distances, it means I need to slow down so I can make it to the end.

                   

                   

                  Thats funny.   I know that when I get the puke feeling I'm over 170.

                  Though I don't wear the monitor often.

                  steph  

                   

                  OCD  If you don't laugh...   


                  Dad of a real runner

                    Just did an 18 mile run this AM.  My goal was to run at 131, which is 73% of my HRR and about 65% into my LR range.  Did Ok for the first 14 miles, but the last 4 I averaged 137 and my pace fell way off.  So, couple of questions.

                    1.  Is that to be expected (i.e. that your heart rate will increase, even for the same pace at longer milage?)

                    2.  Should I have slowed down even more to keep the heart rate in range?

                    markrice


                    Geezer trying for speed

                      Just did an 18 mile run this AM.  My goal was to run at 131, which is 73% of my HRR and about 65% into my LR range.  Did Ok for the first 14 miles, but the last 4 I averaged 137 and my pace fell way off.  So, couple of questions.

                      1.  Is that to be expected (i.e. that your heart rate will increase, even for the same pace at longer milage?)

                      2.  Should I have slowed down even more to keep the heart rate in range?

                       

                      This can be caused by many different things, but I can make some educated guesses (and related thoughts) from my HR experiences:

                      • Is 137 about 78% of HRR? (I don't know your max/rest so cannot calculate that accurately). I guessed your max is 163 and resting at 44... but it doesn't matter TOO much for the discussion points. It just helps me know how high is 137 for you (in the more comparable HRR numbers).
                      • For your #1, Yes. In many cases this is expected. But not always.  If you are in a flat area, and ideal conditions (no wind, cool weather, etc.) and you are running at an effort level that is really good for you, then this is NOT expected. If environmental factors such as terrain (trails, hills, etc.), wind AND ESPECIALLY HEAT were higher for the last part of your run, that could easily cause it. In some cases, fatigue will set in if you are running your LR effort too high for current fitness.  In reasonable conditions, for someone well within their proper target levels, it would not be expected. This issue is sometimes referred to as "cardiac drift" (where the HR goes higher for the same or lower pace).
                      • Extension to your #1: Even fairly small hilly grades are detectable by HR, although there is often a delay of a minute or so before you see it reflected in your HR.
                      • Yes, I slow down, when needed, to match my target HR. If the conditions (e.g. a hill) drove this up, you should be keeping an even effort.  This happens EVERY time I run a hill (slower on the up and faster on the down... but ideally, similar HR up and down).
                      • NOTE: HR doesn't just help you go fast... it also helps you go slowly when you should be going slowly. 
                      • If this was a higher effort level than you should be targeting, same thing... you should try not to go much above the target HR. You might should pick a more ideal range for you (but I don't know if this applies... your current level might be right). If you have to adjust, I suggest using LT as your calibration point. See below.
                      • HOW I CALIBRATE HR RANGES: Your 73% of HRR is a strong pace for an LR in my opinion (I'm jealous :-)) (worded another way, 65% into LR is fairly deep into that range). I look forward to reaching that level of performance. NOTE: while I could do 65% into my LR, I would have trouble consistently doing 65% into my LT, and LT is what I use to calibrate how deep I should go into each range (Pfitz' ranges are what I use). Since my target LT effort level is 32% (I may soon bump that up) and I restrict my LR, MP, etc. to a similar percentage. (If I do 65% into LT, I'm a bit too worn out for later runs.)  In case you're interested, my web site has a link to a spreadsheet that I created for this purpose. Enter Max/resting and it calculates Pfitz target ranges, then there's a place to pick a % into ranges and it will calculate a single HR for each range that I use as my target.

                      Hope that helps.

                      Anyone could see races, etc. on www.markrice.com/running.

                      I believe in HR training: www.markrice.com/running/heart_rate_training.html

                         

                        This can be caused by many different things, but I can make some educated guesses (and related thoughts) from my HR experiences:

                        • Is 137 about 78% of HRR? (I don't know your max/rest so cannot calculate that accurately). I guessed your max is 163 and resting at 44... but it doesn't matter TOO much for the discussion points. It just helps me know how high is 137 for you (in the more comparable HRR numbers).
                        • For your #1, Yes. In many cases this is expected. But not always.  If you are in a flat area, and ideal conditions (no wind, cool weather, etc.) and you are running at an effort level that is really good for you, then this is NOT expected. If environmental factors such as terrain (trails, hills, etc.), wind AND ESPECIALLY HEAT were higher for the last part of your run, that could easily cause it. In some cases, fatigue will set in if you are running your LR effort too high for current fitness.  In reasonable conditions, for someone well within their proper target levels, it would not be expected. This issue is sometimes referred to as "cardiac drift" (where the HR goes higher for the same or lower pace).
                        • Extension to your #1: Even fairly small hilly grades are detectable by HR, although there is often a delay of a minute or so before you see it reflected in your HR.
                        • Yes, I slow down, when needed, to match my target HR. If the conditions (e.g. a hill) drove this up, you should be keeping an even effort.  This happens EVERY time I run a hill (slower on the up and faster on the down... but ideally, similar HR up and down).
                        • NOTE: HR doesn't just help you go fast... it also helps you go slowly when you should be going slowly. 
                        • If this was a higher effort level than you should be targeting, same thing... you should try not to go much above the target HR. You might should pick a more ideal range for you (but I don't know if this applies... your current level might be right). If you have to adjust, I suggest using LT as your calibration point. See below.
                        • HOW I CALIBRATE HR RANGES: Your 73% of HRR is a strong pace for an LR in my opinion (I'm jealous :-)) (worded another way, 65% into LR is fairly deep into that range). I look forward to reaching that level of performance. NOTE: while I could do 65% into my LR, I would have trouble consistently doing 65% into my LT, and LT is what I use to calibrate how deep I should go into each range (Pfitz' ranges are what I use). Since my target LT effort level is 32% (I may soon bump that up) and I restrict my LR, MP, etc. to a similar percentage. (If I do 65% into LT, I'm a bit too worn out for later runs.)  In case you're interested, my web site has a link to a spreadsheet that I created for this purpose. Enter Max/resting and it calculates Pfitz target ranges, then there's a place to pick a % into ranges and it will calculate a single HR for each range that I use as my target.

                        Hope that helps.

                         

                        QED

                        markrice


                        Geezer trying for speed

                           

                          QED

                           

                          If you think that's wordy, you should see my GMAT page (search google for "gmat help")

                          ...or my MBA prep page: AchieveMBA.com

                          The running page is just another page of the same desire to help.

                          Doesn't meet your approval. Such is life.

                          Anyone could see races, etc. on www.markrice.com/running.

                          I believe in HR training: www.markrice.com/running/heart_rate_training.html

                          zonykel


                            Just did an 18 mile run this AM.  My goal was to run at 131, which is 73% of my HRR and about 65% into my LR range.  Did Ok for the first 14 miles, but the last 4 I averaged 137 and my pace fell way off.  So, couple of questions.

                            1.  Is that to be expected (i.e. that your heart rate will increase, even for the same pace at longer milage?)

                            2.  Should I have slowed down even more to keep the heart rate in range?

                             

                            1. Yes, that's perfectly normal. If you hold a steady pace, your HR will slowly creep up as your run progresses.

                             

                            2. My personal opinion is that you should maintain the pace, despite the HR increase. it really depends on what you're trying to accomplish.

                              I think it's a case of too much information needed for what can be answered by simple self-assessment of how you're feeling.  You were tired and had to slow down at the end of a long run.  You probably did the first part of it too fast.

                               

                              Next time, start slower, with the goal of picking it up for the last four miles.  See what that feels like instead.  You can even see what it does to your HR, too, if you want.

                              "When a person trains once, nothing happens. When a person forces himself to do a thing a hundred or a thousand times, then he certainly has developed in more ways than physical. Is it raining? That doesn't matter. Am I tired? That doesn't matter, either. Then willpower will be no problem." 
                              Emil Zatopek

                              jicama


                              Did we win?

                                I started reading this thread a few days ago and was intrigued.  I usually run a 9:00 to 9:30 pace and my average HR is typically below 170, maxing in the 170s.  I ran 8x800 intervals yesterday and noticed my HR peaked at around 185 without feeling any distress.  I include this information as a reference because I don't know my formal maximum heart rate.

                                 

                                I planned a two-hour run today and decided to try to keep my HR below 150; I got a few miles out and decided to increase the target to 160 because I can't run much and keep it below 150.  160 kept me to an 11:40 pace and I had to walk occasionally even there.  Does all this indicates that I'm not very fit?

                                 

                                I deny that conclusion!  I reject your reality and substitute my own.  My reality says I can finish a half in two hours on 2/3/13.

                                I PR'd in my FIRST half-marathon; you can, too.  Ask me how!

                                 

                                2013 races:

                                Heart & Sole Half-Marathon,  Goldsboro, NC, Feb. 2, 1:56:40 (PR)

                                New River Marathon, Todd, NC, May 4, 4:59:32 (PR)

                                Triple Lakes Trail Race (40 mile), Greensboro, NC, Oct. 5, pending...

                                12345