Running with the sub-3s: redux (Read 386 times)


Interval Junkie --Nobby

    Congrats on the 3:07, Rick.  That's pretty awesome.

    2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon ("Congrats! It's tough to race with poop in the mind" --Wing)

    Current Status 03/17: Drinking beer and eating crap -- all the things I couldn't do before the marathon

      stadjak...so are you gonna hit 2:59:59 in NYC or what?  Whats the plan?


      Interval Junkie --Nobby

        stadjak...so are you gonna hit 2:59:59 in NYC or what?  Whats the plan?

         

        Okay, talked to Coach about my 2:59:59 plan.  He was avuncularly amused.  I brought in a sheet with the NYC topo map and the splits I intended to hit.  The second half of the race is a lot of 6:45.  He asked if that was where I was in my recent training runs.  It was one of those simple questions that knock you off your cloud.  Uh, no . . . not even really that close.  Most of MP have been around 7:05.

         

        So, going to Coach was a really good idea.  We talked about how training had gone recently, and the 11mi MP run.  In the end we determined that 3:03:30 (7:00 pace) was a challenging 5min PR on that course.

         

        So, the plan is something like this:

        Miles

        1st: 8:00 pace (or whatever the herd will allow uphill)

        2nd: 7:10 (downhill)

        3rd: 7:10 (flat)

        4th: 7:00

        The idea is to have a ~1:50 deficit at the half.

         

        Then at mile 16 go for it: ~6:50 pace

         

        Sub-3 will need to wait for the Spring . . . then again, that's Boston.

        2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon ("Congrats! It's tough to race with poop in the mind" --Wing)

        Current Status 03/17: Drinking beer and eating crap -- all the things I couldn't do before the marathon

          I predict sub-3 for the 'jak.

           

          Nothing like telling a guy he can't to make him think he can. Your coach wasn't born yesterday.

            avuncularly 

             

            Try spelling this in your head at mile 24.

             

              we determined that 3:03:30 (7:00 pace) 

                

              Then at mile 16 go for it: ~6:50 pace

               

              Sub-3 will need to wait for the Spring . . . then again, that's Boston.

               

              Having run 3:03:32 I don't like this at all and think it will leave you pissed off if you have a good day. If you are fit enough to run 3:03 your are fit enough to roll 6:50s till you either make it or the wheels come off. You will suffer badly either way.


              Interval Junkie --Nobby

                This is why I come here: the bad advice.

                2014 Goals:  sub-3 Marathon ("Congrats! It's tough to race with poop in the mind" --Wing)

                Current Status 03/17: Drinking beer and eating crap -- all the things I couldn't do before the marathon

                  What's the worst that can happen. You can go out on pace, blow the fuck up and the last (few) mile(s) will suck. You'll live. Better than than lying in bed at 3 in the freaking morning for the next month or two knowing you COULD have done it if you hadn't been such a pansy ass.

                   

                  I think this was Tanya but I can't remember.

                  In Soviet Russia, Burger eats you!

                   

                    Well, your massive PR in the 5k points in the right direction, and your mileage looks good.  I call BS on thinking the MP run was subpar.  Nearly spot on based on garmin time, and coming a few days after a VO2 max session and after back to back 70 mile weeks?

                     

                    I say settle in at 7 for the first few, then make the decision based on feel, with a bias towards "what the hell".

                     

                     

                     Having run 3:03:32 I don't like this at all and think it will leave you pissed off if you have a good day. If you are fit enough to run 3:03 your are fit enough to roll 6:50s till you either make it or the wheels come off. You will suffer badly either way.

                     

                    X-you nailed my race plan.  Average 7 min/mi or so for the first 5k, then roll as many 6:50s as I can.  Not much to lose...the downside is I come away with something around 3:15 and claim my real goal was to BQ.

                      This is why I come here: the bad advice.

                       

                      There's more free bad advice where that came from.


                      I'm back!

                        Having run 3:03:32 I don't like this at all and think it will leave you pissed off if you have a good day. If you are fit enough to run 3:03 your are fit enough to roll 6:50s till you either make it or the wheels come off. You will suffer badly either way.

                         

                        I mostly agree with this. But the gap from 3:03:30 to 3:00 is not insignificant. Also, IMO Boston is a much faster course -- run correctly -- than NY.

                         

                        OTOH -- I have run four sub-3s and no sub-19s. So by that metric you should be good. :-)

                          It's a marathon. Don't be afraid to race.

                             

                            But the gap from 3:03:30 to 3:00 is not insignificant.

                             

                            I agree with Bob on this.  That's another three and a half minutes on top of a five minute PR.  That's a lot.  Not impossible--but definitely a big jump.  I'll play contrarian (sort of, but more of a blended plan) by saying you should go with your coach's approach.  But at 16, rather than trying to run 6:50s, I say take DeLuca's approach and race the hell out of it.  Try to catch as many as you can those last 10ish miles.  If it's your day, you never know what could happen.  Forget about trying to hit any splits and just give the best effort possible.  You might surprise yourself.

                            There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

                             

                            Well, fuckers

                            He still stands

                             

                            The Diary of a Once-ran.


                            I'm back!

                              My fastest marathon pre-sub-3 was 3:04:37. I definitely didn't feel like damn, I should have gone for sub-3. It was not there in my training. Actually I paced for 3:07, picked it up at the half, and had a good day.

                               

                              But after that I knew I could hit sub-3 with more training.

                                 I mostly agree with this. But the gap from 3:03:30 to 3:00 is not insignificant. Also, IMO Boston is a much faster course -- run correctly -- than NY.

                                 

                                If my sole objective were chasing a PR Boston would be not me on the top of my list at all. I've never run Boston correctly but I do agree the gap is not insignificant. I've also tried to run sub 3 a couple times and failed but know that doesn't mean you can't salvage a decent race. Stadjak's coach's plan would require him to run a significant negative split to go sub 3. Speaking of...What the hell is that 8 minute first mile stuff? If you want to run an 8 minute mile go run a warmup. If you run your first mile at 7:20 you'll still feel like you are walking.