L_Master's Back From Groin Injury/Get Healthy Thread (Read 4832 times)

    Interval Session tonight. 1609m, 1200m, 1200m, 1200m, 800m. Intervals in 5:56, 4:24, 4:27, 4:25, 2:44 w/recovery's of 4:30, 3,3,3, 2:15 @ around 9:00-9:30 pace. 

     

    Felt a little tougher this go around but still very manageable, certainly could have banged out another interval, maybe 2. First two felt fine, middle two I felt it a little on the last lap, and the final 800 was a gradual pickup every 200m finishing at a strong pace. 

     

    Only question is, how hard should I be working on these? Is my effort too light, or is it okay to feel like there is still some in the tank?

    They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


    Fat butt on couch

       

       

      Only question is, how hard should I be working on these? Is my effort too light, or is it okay to feel like there is still some in the tank?

       

      If you're leaving it all out there it's a race.  You should be glad when it's over...probably a higher effort level than a tempo run...but you should feel a lot better as soon as you catch your breath.  Better to err on the side of too easy than over-doing it.

      "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

       

        L Master

        I've enjoyed reading this thread and tracking your progress the past couple of months, and you've gotten some good feedback.

         

        Your biggest advantage is that you are 22.  Your body will adapt and mold itself into better shape faster than someone who is say, 36 (like me).  When I was 22 I was able to drop 30 pounds just by running easy 2-3 times a week and playing hockey 2x/week.  Now when I run 6 days a week and play hockey my weight does not move...it may even go up!  If you can get your body used to the workload you're going to see the dividends.

         

        The one caveat I'll give you is to watch your limits.  You've been laying down a good mileage base and you have been attentive to soreness and minor injuries.  But there is a line of intensity that you'll have to watch.  You do keep an eye on heart rate and have been diligent about reining yourself in after hard efforts most of the time, but if you push that threshold too much especially on recovery days your chance of injury will increase.  If your legs are feeling dead 2, 3 days in a row it is time for a slow day or two until they feel better.  When in doubt, better to be safe than sorry and back off.

         

        I am considering whether to shift my exercise priorities after the baby comes (my wife is due Friday), decrease lifting and concentrate more on running.  I'm probably carrying 15-20 extra pounds over ideal running weight and have only been running 25 MPW average the past few months so I haven't been able to set any ambitious goals.  I don't expect such a dramatic improvement as you've enjoyed, but something like this inspires me to try.

         

        Good luck!

          It is fun to see how much faster you are now. Soon you'll be shooting for sub-17. For my workouts, I often feel that I could do at least one more full set. But, often I feel that I'm training at 75-85%. While not ideal, there have been no injuries (knock on wood) and only the occasional unplanned day off.  At the same time, I've noticed how much the 65-70 mile weeks help. I'm able to find a pace and lock onto it. Really, its all about the easy days. The speed will take care of itself. At least that is my experience.

          Dont call it a comeback

             

             

            L Master

            I've enjoyed reading this thread and tracking your progress the past couple of months, and you've gotten some good feedback.

             

            Your biggest advantage is that you are 22.  Your body will adapt and mold itself into better shape faster than someone who is say, 36 (like me).  When I was 22 I was able to drop 30 pounds just by running easy 2-3 times a week and playing hockey 2x/week.  Now when I run 6 days a week and play hockey my weight does not move...it may even go up!  If you can get your body used to the workload you're going to see the dividends.

             

            The one caveat I'll give you is to watch your limits.  You've been laying down a good mileage base and you have been attentive to soreness and minor injuries.  But there is a line of intensity that you'll have to watch.  You do keep an eye on heart rate and have been diligent about reining yourself in after hard efforts most of the time, but if you push that threshold too much especially on recovery days your chance of injury will increase.  If your legs are feeling dead 2, 3 days in a row it is time for a slow day or two until they feel better.  When in doubt, better to be safe than sorry and back off.

             

            I am considering whether to shift my exercise priorities after the baby comes (my wife is due Friday), decrease lifting and concentrate more on running.  I'm probably carrying 15-20 extra pounds over ideal running weight and have only been running 25 MPW average the past few months so I haven't been able to set any ambitious goals.  I don't expect such a dramatic improvement as you've enjoyed, but something like this inspires me to try.

             

            Good luck!

             

            Totally agree, and a good reminder is always in order. Can't say I've felt like this at all yet, though it is definitely something to watch out for especially since at this stage in my training I don't need to push right up to that limit of what is perfectly optimum. I think the one thing thats really helped is that in the past few months I've stopped caring at all about easy run pace, especially when I'm dealing with hard workouts in my schedule. Back when I was doing some running in 08/09 I used to do stupid crap like go fast past people or run fast to maintain a "respectable pace". 

             

            Now I just try to let my body and how I feel dictate my pace. 

             

             

            It is fun to see how much faster you are now. Soon you'll be shooting for sub-17. For my workouts, I often feel that I could do at least one more full set. But, often I feel that I'm training at 75-85%. While not ideal, there have been no injuries (knock on wood) and only the occasional unplanned day off.  At the same time, I've noticed how much the 65-70 mile weeks help. I'm able to find a pace and lock onto it. Really, its all about the easy days. The speed will take care of itself. At least that is my experience.

             

             Sub-17, that will be awesome! While I'd be shocked to reach that this fall, I think I'll have a good shot at it next fall, and if I do get there I'd have to say it would be beyond any expectations I ever had when I started back in April.

             

            And yea, echoing what I said to kpk I definitely agree with the idea of keeping it on the lighter side when in doubt, especially since I am so new to this whole thing and no where near the level where I need to go right on the border of overtraining to keep on improving. 

            They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

              Progressive tempo today, felt very strong - 6:40, 6:33, 6:26, 6:12; first mile was very easy, and the second mile pretty much just as easy. Third settled into a rhythm that was tough but still comfortable, last was first half at 6:18 then progressive over the last half mile, going from about 10k pace down to about mile pace (only for the last 20 or so seconds). 

              They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


              Spring- wishful thinking

                L_Master,  congrats on the progress and keep up the hard work!  You are doing some really good training for the 5K, my only question would be why limit yourself to that?  With 70 MPW you should be easily able to pull of all distances up to a half marathon with not a lot of time required for recovery in between.  If you just race these other distances without tapering it could even help you get a better feel for your limits (or that you enjoy racing another distance).

                  L_Master,  congrats on the progress and keep up the hard work!  You are doing some really good training for the 5K, my only question would be why limit yourself to that?  With 70 MPW you should be easily able to pull of all distances up to a half marathon with not a lot of time required for recovery in between.  If you just race these other distances without tapering it could even help you get a better feel for your limits (or that you enjoy racing another distance).

                   

                  Few reasons I suppose. One if that since I never did XC/Track in high school I kinda wanted to do a mock year on my own for both because that sounded interesting. Adding in a 10k here or there I wouldn't have been opposed to, but there aren't many going on in my area the next two months. Half-Marathon is out for similar reasons and because, quite simply, they cost way too much. It's one thing for me to spend 15-20 for some 5K's here and there, but I don't have 60+ to throw out for a HM here or there; though that's about the only downside to being a poor college student to be honest.

                  They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."


                  Fat butt on couch

                    though that's about the only downside to being a poor college student to be honest.

                     

                    I'm glad you are appreciating it at the time Wink

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     

                      As far as workouts go, I was reading somewhere that a masters runner had a "plan" of logging 8min/miles, 20-25 min tempos,1k repeats and a 12 mile long run. He broke 15 min. He was fast to begin with but his point was to get those easy miles super easy and hit the workouts.

                       

                      RT had this http://www.runningtimes.com/Article.aspx?ArticleID=23652 on high school workouts. Anyway, I found it helpful.

                      Dont call it a comeback

                        Few reasons I suppose. One if that since I never did XC/Track in high school I kinda wanted to do a mock year on my own for both because that sounded interesting. Adding in a 10k here or there I wouldn't have been opposed to, but there aren't many going on in my area the next two months. Half-Marathon is out for similar reasons and because, quite simply, they cost way too much. It's one thing for me to spend 15-20 for some 5K's here and there, but I don't have 60+ to throw out for a HM here or there; though that's about the only downside to being a poor college student to be honest.

                         

                        Missing that experience might help you in the long run.  I got into some bad habits with training too hard that I still fight today 15-20 years later.  You'd think if I could run 62-64 for 10 miles and 8x1200 in 3:47 average plus have an average easy run pace of 6:30-6:50/mile that I could run a little better than high 29/low 30 in a 5 mile race - but I didn't.  I worked out like that because that's what my college teammates did....and in high school that's what was expected.  Plus if I thought I put in the effort in practice it would pay off in the races. 

                         

                        Running is a cruel sport in that it doesn't work out that way.  You're a golfer...if you don't practice your scores are going to suffer, but if you put in a ton of work your scores more likely will get better...or at least not get worse.  But with running, if you cross that line into training too hard you end up suffering....burnout if you're lucky, injury if you're not.

                         

                        I think a lot of people expect if you are putting in 40 or 60 (or 80 or 90) MPW that you should automatically be training for marathons (especially non runners, who would equate a 40 mile week to running 4 hours per day every day).  If its not on your radar don't worry about it.  If it helps even if I got back to 60 MPW I still have no urge to run marathons - I like 5K up to 10K.  Like you said, 15-20 bucks, and I'm home in time for lunch.

                          Race today, 6K in 23:52. While not what I was hoping for I'm not terribly unhappy. First off, I avoided last, which was nice and it was a pretty cool experience running in a collegiate meet. Course was basically three laps of 2K each. 

                           

                          First lap was fine in 7:43, though probably a bit of an uneven 7:43. Second lap was meh. I got scared of going to fast and bonking hard, so I slacked off on pace....unfortunately I really slacked off running an 8:22. Got back together and ran the last 2K in 7:47. Other than the middle lap weakness I'm okay with the performance, especially since the course wasn't incredibly fast being on gravel and grass with about 200 feet of gain/loss. 

                           

                          I guess its more than expected but still pretty crazy seeing the difference between an actual collegiate meet and your everyday citizens race:

                           

                          Last Race - 7/234

                          This One - 130/135

                           

                          I really need to work on not being scared in races and just going after it the whole way. Part of the learning process though. It's not even that it hurts to much and I have to say uncle, I just notice its starting to get uncomfortable and get worried if I can hold it the whole way and slow down. Next race I really need to just go after it; and if I blow up, I blow up. 

                          They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                            Missing that experience might help you in the long run.  I got into some bad habits with training too hard that I still fight today 15-20 years later.  You'd think if I could run 62-64 for 10 miles and 8x1200 in 3:47 average plus have an average easy run pace of 6:30-6:50/mile that I could run a little better than high 29/low 30 in a 5 mile race - but I didn't.  I worked out like that because that's what my college teammates did....and in high school that's what was expected.  Plus if I thought I put in the effort in practice it would pay off in the races. 

                             

                            Running is a cruel sport in that it doesn't work out that way.  You're a golfer...if you don't practice your scores are going to suffer, but if you put in a ton of work your scores more likely will get better...or at least not get worse.  But with running, if you cross that line into training too hard you end up suffering....burnout if you're lucky, injury if you're not.

                             

                            I think a lot of people expect if you are putting in 40 or 60 (or 80 or 90) MPW that you should automatically be training for marathons (especially non runners, who would equate a 40 mile week to running 4 hours per day every day).  If its not on your radar don't worry about it.  If it helps even if I got back to 60 MPW I still have no urge to run marathons - I like 5K up to 10K.  Like you said, 15-20 bucks, and I'm home in time for lunch.

                             

                            Yea that's one of the things that both unique and at time frustrating about running. Just about any other sport the more or harder you go out and work the better you get. Running its very possible to do too much too soon, or work yourself too hard and not get better. Heck with just about anything else you could pretty much go from being new to being a HS varsity level athlete if you worked many hours a day like a madman over the summer. I was able to do that with golf, going from 110 average and missing the team freshmen year, to a low 80's shooter the next season by practicing 4,5,6+ hours per day all summer long.

                             

                            You just can't do that in running. Sure you can gradually up the mileage but how/when/if your body responds is totally out of your control. Maybe you go from a 20 guy to a mid 16 guy in one year with alot of hard work, but then again you might do a bunch of training only to improve into the 19's. It can be frustrating when you want to just go nuts and get good super fast, but at the same time its awesome for teaching patience and discipline and it really does make the improvements that much more special. 

                            They say golf is like life, but don't believe them. Golf is more complicated than that. "If I am still standing at the end of the race, hit me with a Board and knock me down, because that means I didn't run hard enough" If a lot of people gripped a knife and fork the way they do a golf club, they'd starve to death. "Don't fear moving slowly forward...fear standing still."

                            DLJ


                              Hey L_Master,

                               

                              Have enjoyed reading your thread (fellow physiology/medicine/running lover but terrible golfer Joking). The training log and base is looking really awesome and not only that you have the speed to go with it. Just wanted to write a short note to encourage you to keep up the great work and say congratulations.

                               

                              Bad luck on the race in the last few days, but we all have some days when we don't hit our expectations, especially untapered. I am sure you'll get some feedback from the more experienced runners here but I would suggest that you need to back yourself a little bit more. With a 19:06 5K and your base, you are unlikely to blow up over the last 1K. I reckon you could easily go out at 3:45/km pace see how you end up - you might suprised with the time you end up with. Regardless keep up the good work and in a short time you will be smashing your goals with the effort you are putting in.

                               

                              Dwane


                              Blue Moon Hater

                                Race today, 6K in 23:52. While not what I was hoping for I'm not terribly unhappy. First off, I avoided last, which was nice and it was a pretty cool experience running in a collegiate meet. Course was basically three laps of 2K each. 

                                 

                                First lap was fine in 7:43, though probably a bit of an uneven 7:43. Second lap was meh. I got scared of going to fast and bonking hard, so I slacked off on pace....unfortunately I really slacked off running an 8:22. Got back together and ran the last 2K in 7:47. Other than the middle lap weakness I'm okay with the performance, especially since the course wasn't incredibly fast being on gravel and grass with about 200 feet of gain/loss. 

                                 

                                I guess its more than expected but still pretty crazy seeing the difference between an actual collegiate meet and your everyday citizens race:

                                 

                                Last Race - 7/234

                                This One - 130/135

                                 

                                I really need to work on not being scared in races and just going after it the whole way. Part of the learning process though. It's not even that it hurts to much and I have to say uncle, I just notice its starting to get uncomfortable and get worried if I can hold it the whole way and slow down. Next race I really need to just go after it; and if I blow up, I blow up. 

                                 

                                 

                                The first lap felt fine, but you got scared?  Did you have a watch going for that first lap, or were they reading off splits there?

                                 

                                The best thing you can do is ditch the watch if you don't want to be afraid.  I'm paraphrasing here, but Bob Kennedy once said that when he's running his 5K, he's within a second or two per lap of a pace that will have him collapsing. 

                                 

                                You know the pain is going to be there, why be afraid of it?  Prepare for it.  I know you can't spend five or six hours per day training like golf, but if you want to add some more hours to your training, start with some mental preparation.  That can't injure you...I think.

                                 

                                I see that you know what you have to do, so go do it!

                                There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

                                 

                                Well, fuckers

                                He still stands

                                 

                                The Diary of a Once-ran.