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Vaporflys soon to be banned! (Read 320 times)

bdub


Shoe Alarmist

    Zoh no! Technology made shoes better. Will they be banned? Buy shoes today!

     

    PR submarine.

     

    Problem: Technology has made runners, bikers, swimmers, and a plethora of other athletes faster and more capable at a veritable cornucopia of sportsketball events.

     

    Solution: We should all just compete in Chuck Taylor's.

      Zoh no! Technology made shoes better. Will they be banned? Buy shoes today!

       

      PR submarine.

       

      Problem: Technology has made runners, bikers, swimmers, and a plethora of other athletes faster and more capable at a veritable cornucopia of sportsketball events.

       

      Solution: We should all just compete in Chuck Taylor's.

       

      So you're saying there should be no regulations or restrictions regarding shoes for running races?

       

      I feel the same way about PEDs for professional schoolyard sports like Baseball, basketball, football, etc. It was a huge waste of taxpayer money for Congress to get so involved in steroid use in pro baseball. It's a private industry and professional sport; let them take and do whatever they want to achieve maximum performance. It would make for far more entertaining events.

      55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

      Netizen Kane


        You think athletes should be allowed to take PEDs (or pushed to by team owners) to make sport more entertaining even if the drugs are life threatening? Hmmm.

          Sarcasm and Edge-Lording loses it's nuance when written instead of spoken 

          55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

          Netizen Kane


            Indeed! It went straight over my head - anyway, we move on...

              Maybe Congress will have hearings about the Nike Vaporfly technology. Because that's really important to our nation and society. Like PEDs in pro baseball.

              55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

              Brewing Runner


              3:56 marathoner at heart

                 

                So you're saying there should be no regulations or restrictions regarding shoes for running races?

                 

                I feel the same way about PEDs for professional schoolyard sports like Baseball, basketball, football, etc. It was a huge waste of taxpayer money for Congress to get so involved in steroid use in pro baseball. It's a private industry and professional sport; let them take and do whatever they want to achieve maximum performance. It would make for far more entertaining events.

                 

                It really was because now they use cameras to win the World Series. Plenty of people were entertained at the home run showdown between Mark and Sammy.  Plenty of kids are juiced to get better at school sports too. Congress is too busy with a witch hunt to distract the American people from the real issues they’re doing nothing about, like creating a balanced budget for once. They don’t have time to investigate the sport of cheaters who aren’t supposed to be cheaters and everyone acts shocked when we discover cheaters (in baseball). 

                talk about life threatening. Some women put Botulism Toxin in their face AND IT IS LEGAL! BOTULISM INJECTIONS! 

                 

                no. There Goulding be a restriction on shoes. Just restrict the fastest times allowed like Porsche restricts any new cars from being faster than the 911 because the Porsche 911 is an icon. Make it illegal to run JFK 50 miler than the current record, and make it illegal to break all the current road race records. Anything faster than a 2 hour marathon is illegal and results in being banned from competition. Much easier than punishing shoe companies for doing a lot of research with their money. Maybe shoe prices will come down as a result of it.

                1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                 

                2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                  I used to say that all running shoes were over-rated, but with all the PRs at every level with the Vaporfly, I might have to re-think that. It might be a placebo effect on the mid-pack and back of the pack runners. Or they had never worn actual racing shoes before, just the ONE PAIR of shoes they do all their running in, so any lightweight racing shoe would have the same result for them.

                   

                  After Ralph Nader's PR (not personal record) stunt, GM went all-out to clear it's name, and as a result the Corvair is the only vehicle in history declared "safe" by Congress. If the Vaporfly carbon plate/foam spring technology is declared illegal for competition, I could see Nike doing the same thing, so Congress might waste even more time getting involved in the triviality of sport when they could be doing what we elected them to do. But at least they'd get to take selfies with famous runners brought in to testify; probably not as exciting for them as with famous baseball players though. However, despite what they think, Congress and the executive branch are not the rule-makers for the entire world, so any exoneration would be tangibly meaningless.

                  55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                  darkwave


                  Mother of Cats

                    I used to say that all running shoes were over-rated, but with all the PRs at every level with the Vaporfly, I might have to re-think that. It might be a placebo effect on the mid-pack and back of the pack runners. Or they had never worn actual racing shoes before, just the ONE PAIR of shoes they do all their running in, so any lightweight racing shoe would have the same result for them.

                     

                     

                    I think that's a lot of it, honestly.  When you start getting into the midpack, many runners simply don't have the build to get away with wearing the Streak or the Adios.  So in the past they opted for a heavier, cushioned shoe.

                     

                    Now...those runners don't have to choose between a heavy cushioned shoe and a light shoe - they can have light AND cushioned - running in shoes of the same weight worn by those at the front of the pack.

                     

                    Seen in that sense, the VF is actually an equalizer.  And....if everyone's finally running in the same shoes, then isn't the playing field in one sense more level than it was before?

                    Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                     

                    And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                    Brewing Runner


                    3:56 marathoner at heart

                      I used to say that all running shoes were over-rated, but with all the PRs at every level with the Vaporfly, I might have to re-think that. It might be a placebo effect on the mid-pack and back of the pack runners. Or they had never worn actual racing shoes before, just the ONE PAIR of shoes they do all their running in, so any lightweight racing shoe would have the same result for them.

                       

                      After Ralph Nader's PR (not personal record) stunt, GM went all-out to clear it's name, and as a result the Corvair is the only vehicle in history declared "safe" by Congress. If the Vaporfly carbon plate/foam spring technology is declared illegal for competition, I could see Nike doing the same thing, so Congress might waste even more time getting involved in the triviality of sport when they could be doing what we elected them to do. But at least they'd get to take selfies with famous runners brought in to testify; probably not as exciting for them as with famous baseball players though. However, despite what they think, Congress and the executive branch are not the rule-makers for the entire world, so any exoneration would be tangibly meaningless.

                       

                      I PR'd in Altras. I PR'd in Brooks Ravenna. I PR'd in the Nike Zoom Fly Flyknit. I even beat people WEARING the Next %. There is even a person on this forum who wore the 4% and DIDN'T PR due to being sick. You can't buy success. Just go read about the kid wanting to run a sub 4 minute mile and the amount of hate he gets followed by advice that isn't "buy a pair of Nike percentage shoes." The only thing Congress needs to do is tell people "go run. If you can't beat them don't try and get them banned. Put the effort you're putting into getting a shoe eliminated from competition into training."

                       

                      darkwave Yes. As I said multiple times. The shoes aren't a team exclusive thing. Publicly available. Race cars have banned engines because they weren't "publicly available" and I'm sure it had NOTHING to do with them winning 42% of the races. How many big races have a nike percentage shoe won over the past few years since they're introduced?

                      1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                      5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                      10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                      Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                      Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                      Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                      *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                       

                      2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                        I'm talking generalities regarding PRs, not case studies. Some people have PR'd barefoot, so I guess everyone should do that. I also mentioned the first time use of a race/lightweight shoe by many of these people, and that it may not have made a difference if it was Vaporfly, Escalante, GoMeb, NB1500, etc. they would have PR'd anyway because they ditched their heavy mid-priced trainers. But they bought the Vaporflys because they heard the hype.

                         

                        I'm also saying that Congress and the government has no business telling governing bodies of sport how to go about doing their job. It literally is not their business.

                         

                        I think I'm also being painted as someone who wants the shoes banned. Not really. I'm bringing up the topic for discussion, and I've stated reasons WHY it might be banned and the rules modified. If there are new rules regarding what is allowed in a shoe, Nike can stay within those guidelines and still call the shoe "Vaporfly Legal%" or whatever. Maybe there will be no revisions of shoe construction, but I doubt it.

                        55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                        Brewing Runner


                        3:56 marathoner at heart

                          I like the name Legal%.

                          1 mile: 5:38 (September 2018)

                          5K: 20:23 (March 2018)

                          10K: 42:11 (May 2018)

                          Half: 1:29* (2019 CIM first half)

                          Marathon 2:59* (2019 CIM)

                          Annual Miles 2,121 miles

                          *CIM is a NET downhill course and the weather is unpredictable.

                           

                          2020 Goal: Short Distance PRs so people won't make fun of me. 

                            I'm not sure if everyone can view the video if you are not a WSJ subscriber but they posted a very informative video today discussing the Vaporflys. They had an Adidas athlete test them out on a treadmill who had positive things to say about the energy return. They even sliced open a shoe to show the design of the carbon fiber plate in the middle of the foam.

                             

                            https://www.wsj.com/video/cutting-through-the-controversy-behind-nikes-vaporfly-running-shoe/E2258C9F-CFCC-49EA-A0C6-2E4BDD3B3FB3.html

                            Memphis / serious runner for 2 years / 34 male

                            5k - 21:01 (SEP 19) / 10k - 46:30 (SEP 19) / Half - 1:40:17 (NOV 19) / Full - maybe someday

                            Races - Half in March

                              It should be noted that no technology other than a motor can return more power into your stride than you yourself provide. Springs just absorb the force you and gravity supply upon landing and then release it. If there was a little powered motor in your shoes that provided propulsion upon toe-off, there would be more energy returned than you initially supplied.

                              55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                                I thought it was a gimmick also until I watched several (now middle aged) beat their lifetime pr's they set in their 20's and 30's.  The only difference in their training over the years was their age and these shoes.  The over 50 thing is not helping them.

                                 

                                Then the big reveal when the Div1 New England Cross Country meet was taken off the trails this past season and put on the roads due to course conditions.  The teams with the shoes crushed the teams without.  The heavy underdog Harvard took the men's title.

                                 

                                One of my athletes is friendly with members of the UMass Lowell team that bought the shoes before the race.  During the 10k some of the guys PR'd for their 5k time twice in the same race.

                                 

                                One kid in particular had a lifetime PR of 15:40 before the race.  He ran mid 15's for his first 5k and then finished it off with a 14:09 for the second 5k.

                                 

                                The evidence is too overwhelming at this point to deny it in my opinion.

                                IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Endurance)

                                IAAF Level 5 / USATF Level 3 Coach (Sprints & Hurdles) 

                                USTFCCCA Strength & Conditioning Certification

                                USATF Cross Country Specialist Coaching Certification

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