Lance Armstrong appears finally to have run out of rope. (Read 2696 times)

    If he is telling the truth (no reason to believe he's not), the consequences are pretty big for the sport.  The assumption is that doping is almost par for the course and that doping is needed to bring you base line.  If he's clean that's a huge challenge to the assumption. So, I also hope he's clean, but as much for the sport as for him in particular.  

     

    I think it is more evidence that cycling is getting a lot cleaner than it was.  Science of Sport has done a bunch of articles showing that over the last 2-3 years, times are getting slower and max power output for sections they've raced in years past are significantly down over what they were in the late 1990's and 2000's.

    Runners run.


    HobbyJogger & HobbyRacer

      Where's his lower body?!

       

      He cut off his legs to improve his performance. Fortunately for him, this sport doesn't have a prosthetic ban.

      It's a 5k. It hurt like hell...then I tried to pick it up. The end.

          Suppose Rider X gets pulled over for DUI in Mayberry NC.  His car is impounded, and the official inventory shows the trunk to be overflowing with vials of EPO/HGH/steroids/what-have-you, bags of chilled blood, boxes of syringes, and stacks of ledgers detailing athletes, injection dates and amounts.  All are checked in and held by the Mayberry Police.  Rider X states that it's his hooch and confirms what the drugs are.  The story goes viral, and USADA hears of it.

           

          You're saying USADA can't ask Barney Fife for a copy of that impound form?  Or a copy of the police report with Rider X's statements?  Or that the statement (by Rider X during a police interview) of the drugs and stuff being in Rider X's car is unavailable to be used by them in a doping prosecution?  Because it's information gotten through channels other those USADA themselves can exercise?

           

          No.  I'm not trying to say anything that extreme.  What you're talking about is kind of like the plain view doctrine where police can seize contraband in plain view even without a warrant. It's fortuitous.  A harder question for me would be whether it would be fair to use evidence from a failed criminal proceeding, but in that case I think Armstrong would have benefited from disclosure and evidentiary rules etc.    

           

          The current USADA situation is very different.  Impaneling a grand jury is a very big deal.  The power to compel evidence and testimony is significant.  The purpose of a grand jury is to determine whether there is evidence sufficient to support a criminal indictment and the defendant has virtually no rights during the grand jury inquiry.  No right to be present, no right to cross-examine witnesses, no right to even see the evidence.  It's only after a grand jury indicts that the defendant gets those due process protections.  This process has checks and balances built in.  Grand juries are not devices to gather evidence for an informal arbitration.  

           

          There are many differences between your hypo and the USADA situation, but the issue that bothers me is that Tygart used the grand jury process to gather evidence for an unrelated arbitration, knowing that he was bypassing the checks and balances.  He knows that the arbitration process is a different sort of beast -- there are no real rules of evidence or discovery, etc. (I could go on and on, but they are dramatically different).  Underlying it all is the specter that this is a politically motivated charade.  

           

          This is a very slippery slope and at some point the USADA has to be reined in.  It's bad policy and will ultimately be bad for athletes.  

            ... What you're talking about is kind of like the plain view doctrine where police can seize contraband in plain view even without a warrant. It's fortuitous.

             

            There are many differences between your hypo and the USADA situation, but the issue that bothers me is that Tygart used the grand jury process to gather evidence for an unrelated arbitration, knowing that he was bypassing the checks and balances.

            Rider X's interview statement isn't a plain-view kind of thing.

             

            And I can't agree with the bit I've underlined.  Tygart didn't USE any process; he's merely used evidence gathered by that independent process.  Much the same way the Goldmans used evidence (including testimony) from the Simpson criminal trial in their civil lawsuit.  Those two systems have different rights and checks/balances, too.

            “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

              Frank, Frank, Frank.  Shaking head, just when I was beginning to believe again


              Fast is better than long

                Frank, Frank, Frank.  Shaking head, just when I was beginning to believe again

                 

                http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/18/sports/cycling/frank-schleck-fails-doping-test-at-tour-de-france.html

                 

                Just saw this as well. Might be innocent. I did like that one french article much shorter than this only highlighted that Radioshack-Nissan is under the direction of Bruyneel. Who btw, is not actually at the TDF

                2014 Goals: 2500 miles / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16:30 5K


                Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;
                Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

                What in the Jehu?

                Zidane


                  Frank is just a little fish and btw was just a diuretic which isnt on banned list from what i know... on the other side i`m waiting for big fishes like riders from SKI team dont forget the news that appear this year about up to 100 undetectable performance-enhancing drugs similar to the banned blood booster erythropoietin (EPO) have been designed, German doping specialist Mario Thevis said this year ,Thevis, who is based at the German Sports University in Cologne, told the Tackling Doping in Sport 2012 conference in London, presented by the worldsportslawreport, that the list of "80, 90, 100" new drugs similar to EPO was not exhaustive."They act like EPO but they are structurally different and that means the current EPO tests will not pick them up," he said. But let be realists if Frank doped then how the other riders can be clean >? Specially : Wiggins , Froome and Hagen 

                    Frank is just a little fish and btw was just a diuretic which isnt on banned list from what i know... on the other side i`m waiting for big fishes like riders from SKI team dont forget the news that appear this year about up to 100 undetectable performance-enhancing drugs similar to the banned blood booster erythropoietin (EPO) have been designed, German doping specialist Mario Thevis said this year ,Thevis, who is based at the German Sports University in Cologne, told the Tackling Doping in Sport 2012 conference in London, presented by the worldsportslawreport, that the list of "80, 90, 100" new drugs similar to EPO was not exhaustive."They act like EPO but they are structurally different and that means the current EPO tests will not pick them up," he said. But let be realists if Frank doped then how the other riders can be clean >? Specially : Wiggins , Froome and Hagen 

                     

                    Dude, nice spam link in your sig line. BTW, to the others out there who aren't spammers, diuretics serve as masking and flushing agents for dope. That is why they are generally banned. Don't be suprised if this one is on the list next year. And, yes, Frank is a big fish, just not this particular July.


                    Fast is better than long

                      I got the impression that there are test that look for signatures of something banned and those that look for masking agents of signatures that are banned, and a lot of those are diuretics, but that in some cases the diurectic is actually used for a medical "non sport enhancing purpose".

                       

                      Do some athletes have chronic conditions that force them to use some of the banned and "specified substances". Do they get a waiver to take these or do they have to make the choice to not be an athlete or not take their prescribed meds?

                      2014 Goals: 2500 miles / sub 2 800m / 4:30 mile / sub 16:30 5K


                      Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;
                      Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.

                      What in the Jehu?

                        I got the impression that there are test that look for signatures of something banned and those that look for masking agents of signatures that are banned, and a lot of those are diuretics, but that in some cases the diurectic is actually used for a medical "non sport enhancing purpose".

                         

                        Do some athletes have chronic conditions that force them to use some of the banned and "specified substances". Do they get a waiver to take these or do they have to make the choice to not be an athlete or not take their prescribed meds?

                         

                        I recall reading that tons of pro cyclists have wavers for all sorts of things. Asthma meds is an example. Thing is, these are pros, they know the rules, and they know they need a doctor's note first. 

                         

                        Xipamide requires a prescription. He's not producing that, rather, he's now claiming he was "poisoned."

                          "Dirtiest Race in History"

                           

                          "Yet he wouldn't be the only one. Doping was so prevalent in the sport that six of the eight finalists that lined up on that September day in Seoul would fail drugs tests themselves or implicated in their use during their careers, including Lewis and Christie. As the writer Richard Moore describes in his new book on the 100m final in Seoul, it was the "Dirtiest Race in History"

                           

                          "Johnson left for Seoul as a Canadian and returned Jamaica-born."

                           

                          (BTW, I thought that the "Tour de France" was the dirtiest race, but someone thinks that it was a specific T&F race that still eats at me today.)

                           

                           

                          MTA: I found this other article from yesterday to be a great read regarding the Olympics.  Interesting.  I've commented before on how I dislike the way that the US approaches the Olympics, and this article gives an interesting sequence of events that lead to the Dream Team and Golden Shoe Johnson.  I like the "Break Up the Yankees" talk as well as the inability to ever say "Do You Believe In Miracles".  I wish we could believe in miracles when watching the Olympics... Oh well, 4 days and counting

                           

                          Hard to take away the podium moment and give it back to the guy who earned it. 

                           

                          2014 Goals:

                          #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

                          #2: 365 Hours training

                           


                          Fat butt on couch

                             

                             

                            MTA: I found this other article from yesterday to be a great read regarding the Olympics.  Interesting.  I've commented before on how I dislike the way that the US approaches the Olympics, and this article gives an interesting sequence of events that lead to the Dream Team and Golden Shoe Johnson.  I like the "Break Up the Yankees" talk as well as the inability to ever say "Do You Believe In Miracles".  I wish we could believe in miracles when watching the Olympics... Oh well, 4 days and counting

                             

                            This is going off-topic (perhaps a good thing??), but I read that article too.  Honestly, I don't think this change was a bad thing.  So many other countries have systems in place to allow their Olympic athletes to make a living...on the public dole...while working to represent their countries on the international stage.  They were given sham titles or jobs they likely never actually did, while training full-time, essentially circumventing "amateur" rules.  Their athletes are pros, and have been for decades.  Then we send out food stamp-collecting amateurs to compete against them.

                             

                            IMHO it's a good thing to allow people to actually support themselves through the sport they pursue, it makes it more likely that they will stick with it and we will actually see the best at the sport reach their potential.  You can't reach your potential while trying to also work and actually keep a roof over your head.

                             

                            It does not take long to look through the sport of running and see all of those that left the sport during or before their prime, in order to get on with developing a career with which they could actually support themselves.

                             

                            Plus I have some bad feelings about the Olympic (amateur) system for the same reasons I don't like the bigger collegiate sports.  Arcane, zero-tolerance policies are enforced on the athletes doing the work and taking the risk while the millions of dollars created through their sweat and tears are distributed to the institutions and bureacrats running the system.  Everyone benefits in the system, except the athlete. 

                             

                            Your coach can be paid hundreds of thousands.  Your institution can make millions off the TV and marketing rights.  Yet you the athlete (who may not be on scholarship even) can get booted for accepting a $30 trophy.

                             

                            MTA:  Before the Dream Team, I thought Olympic basketball was a joke.  It was obvious that the best players in the world did not participate, so it didn't mean a whole lot to me.  Who cares if Country X can beat our collegiate all-stars, at least those that have not already left early to sign NBA contracts?

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              And now the USADA is taking on the international cycling federation.  Congrats to Vinokourov on his gold medal.  

                                Congrats to Vinokourov on his gold medal.  

                                 

                                Ugh. When it comes to riders from the doping era this guy is head of the class.