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My training schedule for the Columbus Marathon - Thoughts? (Read 1465 times)

RunFree7


Run like a kid again!

    I am hoping youu guys can see this. I am trying a new website called editgrid to post my running schedule so that I might get some thoughts on maybe some changes. I am currently in week one and I have been increasing my running days and miles as suggested by many people on this website. Let me know if you can see the chart nad what you might change.

    EditGrid Spreadsheet by user/flfmmqp.

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      2011 Goals:
      Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
      Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
      Some observations: 1) A lack of mileage "cycling", week 7's the only week of the 16 you really get any sort of relief from the pounding. 2) It looks like your set on doing 26 miles on the weekend, maybe bump some of those 13/13's to 17/8 or so. 3) Is Thursday 8 miles straight at your tempo pace or does that 8 miles included some easy before/after. Just my 3.14 cents which isn't worth that much.
        HI BearCat, some thoughts from me. While I haven't run Comrades yet, I do plan to run next year, and have spent plenty time speaking to former runners, coaches etc. So my first thought is while it's great to focus on Comrades now, it's still a long way off. However, that depends on your goal time, if you're going for silver (sub 7:30) then yes, it's probably wise to start hill work etc now, but not essential. Otherwise, you just want to build right now, and start teaching your body to run slow. But great to find someone else on this forum planning to run comrades, what goal time do you have in mind?

        Marathon runners suffer the agony of da feet

        RunFree7


        Run like a kid again!

          Actually it is for the Columbus (OH) Marathon which is Oct 21st I believe. Columbus is pretty flat from what I hear so I don't plan to do too much hill training. However, my main marathon is the Flying pig which is a hilly course and is the local marathon. So some of those 13/13 weekends will actually be hill work doing the first half of the flying pig which is by far the hardest part. I have a few more things to add to that such as which runs are hill training. My thinking regarding running has always been a little outside of the normal box. I don't see much value in running the 15-19 mile runs. I already know I can do these. What I don't know if I can do or not is run the 20 - 26 mile runs. My hope is to run 26 miles every weekend. The 13/13 ones being easier so I am resting up in a way for the 20/6, 22/4 and the 24/2 mile runs. I know when I was training for the Flying Pig my friend and I ran a 20 mile run 3 weeks prior to the race and it was a great run and I felt like I could have gone another 6 miles (9:19 pace). When I ran the flying pig I died at mile 22. I was running at a much faster pace during the flying pig so that had something to do with it but I think it also had something to do with not having enough long runs 20 miles or over. I never went above 20 miles. I plan to do so this time but will stay in that 9 - 9:30 pace range. I hope this makes sense to someone else besides just me. Smile amcneice, I think you are right though. I might need a couple of easier weeks in my log. Any suggestions of where?
            2011 Goals:
            Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
            Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
            Confused It's weird how I read that as Comrades. My bad, sorry about that. But good luck with your training.

            Marathon runners suffer the agony of da feet

            RunFree7


            Run like a kid again!

              No problem. What is comrades? I take it is a hilly course?
                2011 Goals:
                Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                To me it seems like a strange schedule. What is the value in running exactly 26 miles each and every weekend with only 28 miles the other 5 days of the week. And there is no ramp up in mileage--you're running exactly 54 miles every...single...week. Why? And here is the biggest head scratcher for me:
                I don't see much value in running the 15-19 mile runs.
                Those are the most valuable runs for marathon training. It's not about knowing you can do them--no kidding you know you can do them. Training is not practice or proving to yourself repeatedly that you are capable of covering a particular distance. It's training. It's tyring to make changes in your body to make it better at running long distances quickly. These changes are best made a little at a time. What I would change? I'd focus on a schedule that includes: 1. one long run (120+ minutes) on the weekend 2. one medium-long run (75-95 minutes) mid-week and 3. a bunch of shorter runs (45-70 minutes) on all the other days of the week for recovery and general aerobic base building. I'd also focus on a prolonged progression of my weekly mileage, so that I was running my peak mileage about 4-6 weeks before the target race.

                Runners run.

                RunFree7


                Run like a kid again!

                  Mike: I agree with some of what you are saying so that is why I am adjusting my schedule as we speak. I actually don't expect anyone to understand my logic about the weekends. However, if everyone did the exact same things then we would not have a 100 different training plans and running magazines would have nothing to write about. My 8 mile runs usually take 72 - 75 minutes to run so I think that falls into the shorter runs category. My speed workout will fall into the 20 - 30 minute range. My tempo run will be a little longer then some would like but still be acceptable. I may change up my tempo run from being the Thursday run to be a 13 miler on a Saturday as my training progresses. I might even try it on one or two of the 20 milers. My goal is to run Columbus between 8:15 - 8:30 pace. I feel strongly you have to run at this pace during training to be able to do this on race day. I think that as some would build up mileage I plan to build up my speed. So while the mileage may stay the same I plan to do them faster as the weeks move on. If everyone followed everything by the book then we would have one training schedule and the running magazines would have nothing to write about. I just feel that running a Marathon every weekend gets my body ready for the real thing. You don't expect your body to run the Marathon after running 20 miles the Sunday before right? Well why would you expect your body to run well running 20 miles after running 17 miles the week before. I feel that if you are running Saturday runs of 15, 17, 19, 20 when are you giving your body a rest? 13 mile runs at an easy pace are easier for me to do but I will vary those 13 mile runs with hills or a quicker pace. So not all 54 mile weeks are created equal. However, I am throwing in some recovery weeks. I know, I know I have no clue. I just can't help myself. It makes sense to me or at least enough sense that I should give it a try.
                    2011 Goals:
                    Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                    Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                    ignore. double post.
                      I think you are right though. I might need a couple of easier weeks in my log. Any suggestions of where?
                      If it was my plan, I'd put them at week 4, week 8, week 12. I'd take week 9 and put it were week 7 is. Flip Flop weeks 2/3 and then switch 12/13. That way you'd be building to weeks of the long runs of 20+ miles and would give your body a bit of a recovery the next week. Without that, if you want to average 54 miles/week, I'd cycle it so you're giving your body a progressive overload; plus for one of the lesser weeks it'd possibly allow you to take 2 days off (ie a monday off) and you could put in some longer speedwork days. There was a study of a bunch of IOC coaches done a few months ago and they pretty much all went with near threshold runs (which you're doing on thursday's) and shorter interval sessions where few and far between (granted they did do like 5k intervals. Shocked )


                      I've got a fever...

                        Just food for thought -- here's some thinking on marathon training, particularly long runs from Dr. Owen Anderson's book Great Workouts for Popular Races. (available at www.runningresearchnews.com)
                        As you prepare for a marathon, it is also important to avoid the common tendency to carry out a long run each weekend. There is little value in such repeated efforts, and in fact such incessant hammering at the door of prolonged running usually heightens injury risk and lowers the quality of the training which is carried out during the week, in between the long runs. The general belief is that such long running is needed to prepare for the rigors of the marathon, but the truth is that there is nothing about the marathon per se which requires a weekly leg-pounder. Implicit in the philosophy of the necessity of the long weekender is the suggestion that the human body will somehow forget how to go long, will forget how to have enough endurance to run a marathon, unless a weekly pounding is administered to the leg muscles. Nothing could be further from the truth! While it is important to gradually work up to a 20- to 22-mile training run in preparation for a marathon, it is not necessary to turn your legs into chalk dust during training. As is the case with all of the distances we have studied so far, high fitness – not high training volume or a high frequency of long runs – is the factor which will produce the best-possible marathon performances. High fitness, as you have already learned, is fostered more effectively by a scorching vVO2max workout, a lactate-stacker session, some 2400-meter intervals at 10-K pace, or a sizzling fartlek effort on wooded trails, compared with inching along for 13 to 20 miles at mediocre paces. It is far better to reserve the long run for every other weekend, or even every third weekend, and to carry out high-quality efforts on days which used to be designated for the long slogs. If you have completed a 20- to 22-mile training run as part of your marathon preparations, with a good chunk of this run completed at goal pace, and if you have also optimized your vVO2max, lactate- threshold speed, running economy, running-specific strength, and max running speed during your premarathon build-up, then you will be totally prepared for your big race. ... Many marathon trainees believe that 18- to 20- mile long runs prepare their bodies to handle the rigors of a full marathon, forgetting that all they have really learned to do is run a partial marathon at slower-than-goal pace. To make your long training runs (the ones you carry out every other week or every third week during your training) relevant to the race, it is important to make such efforts race-specific. This simply means including a significant chunk of miles at goal marathon pace within the overall run. You can be very progressive in this regard: If your current long run is six miles, for example, you can include three miles at goal marathon tempo (warm up with two easy miles, cruise for three miles at goal speed, and then cool down with one light mile). Over time, you can increase the length of the long run by a mile or two per workout, until you reach 22 miles – with about 10 of those miles at goal marathon speed. ... It makes sense, in fact, to complete one race simulator about four to five weeks before your marathon date. To complete the simulator, simply run 10 miles fairly easily, at a pace about 45 seconds per mile slower than goal marathon tempo, and then – without stopping – click off 10 more miles at goal marathon speed, before cooling down with two miles at 45 seconds off marathon pace. This great workout, which involves running close to half a marathon at goal race velocity while already tired, is a diagnostic one; it will reveal whether your chosen goal is too lofty or too humble. It is also great preparation for the marathon itself, since it forces you to reel off 10 goalspeed miles when your leg muscles are already in a fatigued state. Finally, the simulator improves confidence and efficiency at hoped-for marathon intensity. Don’t forget, however, that you must build up gradually to simulator status, starting with about six total miles (with three at goal pace). Bear in mind, too, that you will need ample recovery after the simulator, completing only light training during the following week and tapering your training steadily and progressively between the date of the simulator and your big meeting with “m.” As mentioned, the simulator should be completed four to five weeks before your marathon; if you squeeze the two together, you won’t be fully recovered on race day, and you will not be able to achieve your best-possible performance.

                        On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

                          Just food for thought -- here's some thinking on marathon training, particularly long runs from Dr. Owen Anderson's book Great Workouts for Popular Races. (available at www.runningresearchnews.com)
                          To piggy back of Jeff's post, Daniels has something like this for his long runs a max of 22.5 miles or 2.5 hrs mixed with 2.5 hrs or 25% of mileage. Those are about every other week and he's got a lot of Easy / Tempo / Marathon pace workouts that will end up putting most people into the 13-20 range otherwise. He also advocates a lot of the article jeff did with specific marathon training pace for parts of the long run so for adoptions to handling that speed. After week 12 there's nothing but E/M/T runs which goes with all of his training phases, etc.
                          RunFree7


                          Run like a kid again!

                            Jeff: This is exactly what I have been trying to say. I think you can run as many long runs as you want but that is not going to help to increase your speed. You have to run at race pace (given it is reasonable) in order to do it during a marathon. I think at first you have to train your legs how to run a long run, at which time 15 - 19 mile runs are important. However, I think this is for someone trying to just finsh a marathon. If you want to get faster the only way to increase that time is to run faster longer. You have to do this progessively and you must have lots of easy runs. I think it is important to keep the number of miles up during the weeks to keep your legs in that mode that they can handle the 20 - 26 mile run. I plan to use my long runs, speed workouts and tempo runs to help do this. Each plays a different piece. My first week of 54 miles is going to be the easiest week because my times and my routes will be the slowest. However, when I run the exact same sort of week in week 11 you can bet it will be at a faster pace. I will most likely push the tempo run from my normal Thursday run to my 13 mile Saturday run. Once I feel I can handle the pace at 8 miles I will move it to 13 miles. I will also be paying close attention to my heart rate zones. I think this is important. I only wish I could control the weather because it will have a lot to say about my progress Sad
                              2011 Goals:
                              Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                              Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)
                            RunFree7


                            Run like a kid again!

                              Jeff: This is exactly what I have been trying to say. I think you can run as many long runs as you want but that is not going to help to increase your speed. You have to run at race pace (given it is reasonable) in order to do it during a marathon. I think at first you have to train your legs how to run a long run, at which time 15 - 19 mile runs are important. However, I think this is for someone trying to just finsh a marathon. If you want to get faster the only way to increase that time is to run faster longer. You have to do this progessively and you must have lots of easy runs. I think it is important to keep the number of miles up during the weeks to keep your legs in that mode that they can handle the 20 - 26 mile run. I plan to use my long runs, speed workouts and tempo runs to help do this. Each plays a different piece. My first week of 54 miles is going to be the easiest week because my times and my routes will be the slowest. However, when I run the exact same sort of week in week 11 you can bet it will be at a faster pace. I will most likely push the tempo run from my normal Thursday run to my 13 mile Saturday run. Once I feel I can handle the pace at 8 miles I will move it to 13 miles. I will also be paying close attention to my heart rate zones. I think this is important. I only wish I could control the weather because it will have a lot to say about my progress Sad
                                2011 Goals:
                                Sub 19 5K (19:24 5K July 14th 2010)
                                Marathon under 3:05:59 BQ (3:11:10 Indy 2010)


                              I've got a fever...

                                If you want to get faster the only way to increase that time is to run faster longer.
                                Well, not the only way. Wanna know a great workout for all distances? Lactate stackers, which are 12x1min at near sprint speed with 2 minute recoveries. Helps flood you with lactate and teaches your system how to become more effective at clearing excess lactate (lactic acid) from the blood. The net result is that your running velocity at lactate threshold (RVLT) increases, and this is important even for a distance like the marathon (which is run at slower than RVLT) because if RVLT increases, it make your current marathon pace feel easier to you; thus, you can run faster. Performance is improved by including quality workouts at or faster than race pace. Honestly, I think your program looks fine except that the 13/13 double is unnecessary, and possibly counter-productive. Better to go 13 one weekend, 19 the next alternately, and include some miles at race pace in those runs. And you don't need to 26 or even 24 miles in training to know you can do it in race. Cap off your long run at 20~22, and do that 4~5 weeks before the race with 10 miles at race pace (as Dr. Anderson indicated above with the Race Simulator). You'll know everything you need to know about your training at that point.

                                On your deathbed, you won't wish that you'd spent more time at the office.  But you will wish that you'd spent more time running.  Because if you had, you wouldn't be on your deathbed.

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