PR Question (Read 1491 times)

Who would think up something like this? What the hell is wrong with you?

Oh, all kinds of things are wrong with me.

Contests are set up with rules and judges so that all competitors are under the same constraints. This makes it fair to compare the performance of one person with another person. Even in weightlifting, a bench press in training is usually much different than a bench press in competition because in competition you have to pause the weight until the head judge says "press". You can complete the lift, but still not get credit if you move your foot, lift your butt off the bench, or other things that are against the rules. I remember seeing guys in the gym claiming to be able to squat outrageous weight, but when I saw them squat, it was more like a half squat - they didn't go parallel - which is required in competition. When you tell someone your PR is whatever it is, it's usually understood that you were in an official competition

Stevie Ray, what's your PR for threads with blueskies?

Where's the one where he channelled her and ended saying he was gonna go back and edit it 10 times in the next half hour -- and did it? I nearly busted a gut on that one...

Yeeeeeeeeeah. Ok, let me back up here. I asked the question I asked because I was genuinely curious. That's how my mind works. I question things. Am I concerned with other runners think of me? Are you kidding? I'm the guy who everyone passes, remember? I could care less. Ah, but am I concerned about what other runners think about running? Very much so. I find people interesting. I find the way people invest in systems particularly fascinating and I was simply questioning the system that is the running community as represented here on runningahead. Like I said, it's how my mind works. I am curious. I never meant to offend anyone and I never offered any personal attacks nor did I mock anyone else's thoughts or opinions. I mentioned the logging because, well, it wasn't a coincidence or convenience that the logs work this way. Long before the software was written use cases were performed and the fact that it was decided that only races generate PRs was indicative of a mindset. The fact that so many sites have the same setup indicates that it is a common mindset. Convenience? Worst case scenario is that adding the ability to choose to include any run as a PR would require exactly one extra line of code on the display side and either one extra line in the query or perhaps another three or four lines of a new query depending on how the database is structured. Again, I'm not criticizing Eric or this site. I saw it as a mindset that I questioned. The fact that so many people reacted with personal shots to someone questioning such a simple thing is, quite frankly, astonishing. I won't bother responding to those individually because I started this thread in the hope of opening a discussion and somewhere that hope still lingers. Discussion, you know... people talking and listening and actually thinking about what one another has to say. I haven't seen mocking like this since the political boards during the election cycle. Anyway... For what it's worth... I am interested in improving. If not, I would not care what my PR is. That only seems logical. Am I a coward? Please. I don't race for my own reasons. The fact that someone else will be faster than me is of no concern whatsoever. I have a huge ego, but not like that. I was never the strongest guy in the gym, the most balanced yogi, the best player on the baseball field, etc. What an asinine thing to say. That was just mean spirited and I don't really understand why you would say that. Mikey, I really don't care how much you can bench. My point was that you knew. If I asked what your best bench was in conversation you would say 250. You wouldn't say "0, because I never entered a bench press competition". Also...

My PR for my Norden Sturgess loop is 56:13. This was not set in competition but on a random, ho-hum, 8+ mile training run. It is not listed in my RunningAhead training log, and I'm okay with that.

Exactly! I really don't care what my running ahead log says my PR is. I've said about 8 times now that I regret mentioning the logging at all as my question was more about trying to understand a mindset. My point is, as you said, your PR for the Norden Sturgess loop is 56:13. In an earlier post you said something along the lines of "how can you consider anything a PR that wasn't part of a race". Yet, you clearly do. Logging aside, you consider that your PR. Why? Because that was your best performance on that loop and it will forever be the measuring stick for you on that loop until you beat it. Why is that such a bad thing? Ok, one thing I do have to comment on...

For those of us who do not PR in random workouts and whose PRs represent one triumph that stands out over a lifetime of struggle, failure, half-successes, and heartbreaking injuries most of your questions are pretty moot.

Wow. That's by far the most insulting thing I've seen in awhile. So just to clarify, I don't struggle, I have never suffered failure or heartbreaking injuries simply because I choose not to enter some charity 10k? Are you serious? Go back to Mikey's Norden Sturgess PR. He accomplished something on that day that he had never done before or since. That time, 56:13, represented the culmination of years of training, struggle, and effort. But because it wasn't accomplished after first paying 50 bucks and wedging himself elbows to assholes into a crowd of 1400 other mopes it doesn't count? It doesn't represent any of his struggle, failure, half successes etc? If you really believe that to be true then that's cool. I just can't get on board with that line of thinking.

I think I understand you better now, Jeff. Much easier to take in when it's not condescending as was the earlier post about "those of us who struggle" etc. Thank you for offering an actual reply rather than just taking shots. I actually agree with you probably more than you think. I just truly, deeply wish that I had waded into this discussion differently. I really chose the wrong tack in bringing up the question not only in the context of logging, but also I guess in making it personal to me. I know that I can define my PRs however I want. What I really wanted was a discussion of how and why everyone else defines theirs. What I got, I feel, was mostly a knee jerk reaction to an idea that challenged an established way of looking at things. In regards to your post, like I said I do agree with a fair bit of what you say. PRs should be special and not accidental best times on random routes. I concur. I am even grudgingly accepting the idea that they should be "all out" runs. I don't think that any of the runs where I hit my PR were accidental. In every case they were days chosen well in advance where I intended to run that distance faster than I had before. I trained for those days much like someone would train for an actual race. I don't believe I ever said that I sort of went out and oops, I ran that one fast so it's my new PR. If that's the impression I gave then that was my mistake. Do I remember each of those runs? Well, I have 4 runs that I consider PRs. I absolutely remember the 5k, 10k, and 21k runs because in each of those it was a real struggle to get below a milestone I had set for myself, and in each it wasn't my first attempt to do so. Each was, as I said before, planned well in advance on a route that was both a little long and intentionally challenging. Somewhere in the back of my mind is the idea that if I ever did race I want it to feel shorter and easier than what I train at, so I make sure that my runs are mapped long and literally all of my routes end going up hill. Anyway, my point is that I celebrated each one of those as a victory because they were indeed the result of my own struggles, hardships, and failures. Were they all out runs? Probably not. But they did represent the greatest effort that I had put forth at that distance. They were damned hard, actually. I got a great sense of accomplishment from them and it seems completely foreign to me for someone to say that it didn't count because someone else wasn't running beside me. The 15k... well, I cannot honestly say that I remember that run in particular. I can say that I am fairly certain that it was another pre-determined date that I had trained for. The reason I cannot remember it exactly is that I had two or three that were very close in time and I was never able to really punch beyond that threshold so I am not sure exactly which one it was. As for me entering a race, still 99.9% sure that it will never happen. On one level I agree that I would probably run faster because of the competition, but there are a ton of reasons not to for me. It's just difficult for me to imagine that being a positive experience.

When you tell someone your PR is whatever it is, it's usually understood that you were in an official competition

Tony, i have a confession. My 5K PR was not in an official competition. It was a "virtual race" with some online buddies. I am such a fraud. But I suppose it doesn't matter because its MY LOG. This is the worst thread ever. Ever.

For the record, I don't think that our resident hippie-philisopher (but I repeat myself) was being condescending. As is often the case, he summed a concept up perfectly in a few short, pithy sentences (whereas I blathered on and gave a figgin' self history lesson). Please try to read what he said through the lens of those of us who see equate competition with racing. He wasn't insulting you, he was describing how our society most often defines what it truly means to compete. Best of luck with competing, however you choose to do it, and with setting your PR's, however you choose to define them. But do change your footer. Perhaps you're just trying to flash a self-depricating wit, but what it really ends up being is self-pitying, self-loathing, and ultimately, self-defeating. You deserve better than to sabatoge yourself like that.