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Marathon programs for first marathon and long runs (Read 99 times)

    Hi All

    I have been running for a few years and am signed up for the Philadelphia Marathon in Nov - unlikely to occur but thinking of training for it anyway.  My first marathon, run 5k in 22:50, 10k in 48is, 3x Halves in 1:55.

    Run approximately 100 miles a month for last 2 years- 4 runs per week with long on sun- all slowly.

    I would like to break 4 hours for marathon.

    I am thinking of below modified program: 3 long runs of 20 miles (will take just under 4 hours running slowly) with recovery weeks in between, 4 runs per week with med run mid week at 6 miles because of time (although could change if necessary.

    Thoughts?  Suggestions?

    Thanks so much for your help

    Mike

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      Start Date 7/13            
    Week Date Start Tue Wed Fri Sun Total WeekDays

    Long Run %

    1 7/13 5 6.2 5 10 26 16 38%
    2 7/20 5 6.2 5 14 30 16 46%
    3 7/27 5 6.2 5 10 26 16 38%
    4 8/3 5 6.2 5 16 32 16 50%
    5 8/10 5 6.2 5 12 28 16 43%
    6 8/17 5 6.2 5 12 28 16 43%
    7 8/24 5 6.2 5 18 34 16 53%
    8 8/31 5 6.2 5 13 29 16 45%
    9 9/7 5 6.2 5 18 34 16 53%
    10 9/14 5 6.2 5 13 29 16 45%
    11 9/21 5 6.2 5 13 29 16 45%
    12 9/28 5 6.2 5 20 36 16 55%
    13 10/5 5 6.2 5 12 28 16 43%
    14 10/12 5 6.2 5 20 36 16 55%
    15 10/19 5 6.2 5 12 28 16 43%
    16 10/26 5 6.2 5 20 36 16 55%
    17 11/2 5 6.2 5 12 28 16 43%
    18 11/9       8 8 0 100%
    19 11/16      

    Marathon 11/22

         
                528    
    CanadianMeg


    Half Faster Runners 2023

      Is it possible to add another day of training? Half your mileage being the long run is a pretty steep plan.

      Half Fanatic #9292. 

      Game Admin for RA Running Game 2023.

      wcrunner2


      Are we there, yet?

        You have the speed for a sub-4:00 marathon, but you're lacking in endurance.  There's more to marathon training than the long run.  That schedule is very light on total mileage, besides there being no indication of any type of quality speed work, not even tempo runs.  Starting with a base of 100 miles per month, there's not a lot in that schedule that can be changed with only 19 weeks until the marathon.  What I would suggest is running Tue, Thu, Sat, and Sun with Tue and Thu being 5-6 miles, Sat being your long run, and Sunday being a semi-long run of 8-10 miles.  I hesitate to suggest adding any speed because the mileage increase alone is a big jump from what You've been doing.

         2023 Races:

              04/15 - Alexander County 12-Hour

              05/13 - Dawn to Dusk to Dawn 50K
              06/16 - Six Days in the Dome 12-Hour

         

             

        jeffdonahue


          I agree.  I think the long run percentage is a bit on the high side.  I'd more recommend adding another day or so of training in there.  I understand wanting a rest day after your long run day, but maybe do a run on the day before.  I typically run 3ish miles even the day before a half marathon or marathon just to loosen up the legs.

            Scrap your plan and pick one from here that you feel comfortable with. 

            www.halhigdon.com

             

            A lot of people have used these plans for the first marathon, and beyond.

            Dave

            wcrunner2


            Are we there, yet?

              Philadelphia Marathon has been cancelled.  Now you have the time to build a much better base.

               2023 Races:

                    04/15 - Alexander County 12-Hour

                    05/13 - Dawn to Dusk to Dawn 50K
                    06/16 - Six Days in the Dome 12-Hour

               

                   

              wcrunner2


              Are we there, yet?

                Scrap your plan and pick one from here that you feel comfortable with. 

                www.halhigdon.com

                 

                A lot of people have used these plans for the first marathon, and beyond.

                 

                There's not really much substantial difference between those and what he proposed, the main one being a midweek semi-long run when he has indicated he may be time restricted.

                 

                Here's a workable link to Hal Higdon Training Programs

                 2023 Races:

                      04/15 - Alexander County 12-Hour

                      05/13 - Dawn to Dusk to Dawn 50K
                      06/16 - Six Days in the Dome 12-Hour

                 

                     

                rmcj001


                  To get back to the original question of whether you can break 4 hours with the proposed workout plan.  In a blunt  response, highly unlikely. I went to running weekly and plugged in some of you numbers based on your running log and best guess would be around a 4:20 marathon give or take a few minutes. If your 5K and 1/2 marathon times remain the same, you would need to hit 70 miles/week to get within shouting distances of 4 hours.  How accurate is the running world predictor?  Good question.  In 2014 I ran a 1:38:30 half and a 21:30 5K and was averaging about 55 miles/week in training  The RW predictor gave a 3:34:22 estimate of marathon time, my 2014 CIM time was 3:34:13.

                  If you're serious about breaking 4 hours, you would need to lower your 5K to around 22 minutes flat, 1/2 to around 1:51 and increase your training mileage to around 50 miles per week (on average). Increasing your per week mileage, should lower both those times naturally. IIRC, my 5K time dropped from 23 minutes to 21:30 over the previous year or two and my 1/2 marathon time from 1:48+ to the 1:38 time.  Being consistent with your training mileage (speed won't matter that much) will get you the most bang for the buck.


                  Ray

                   

                  alextate003


                    Spam
                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      Run more easy runs. Trust me. After my first marathon the one thing that made EVERYTHING better was more miles. 40 mile weeks sound like a lot but it’s just a lot of 1 hour runs. For me it helped mentally enter a long run after doing a few 45-60 minute runs with some speed work mixed in. It sounds stupid BUT it’s going to help you recover and build the strength to get through your marathon. More easy runs means your long run is a smaller percentage of your weekly miles. It’s honestly easier to gain false confidence after 18 miles of a 34 mile week than it is to gain confidence in a 16 mile long run on a 50 mile week. Fit on some 3 mile runs in on your current days scheduled for no running and you’ve gained almost 10 miles a week. Check out the math and understand those are going to help you.

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 52.45

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:56:07

                        You need total miles to get the endurance for a marathon.  Long runs will not make up for low base mileage.  I once tried 20 mile long runs on a 100 mile per month base.  I tried four times, and each time was an experience in masochism.  Two years later, and with a 150 mile per month base, 20 mile long runs were merely time consuming.  The recipe for a successful marathon requires miles per month for a least several months, if not a year or two.

                         

                        Some personal experience that shows this:

                        In 2006, I ran a a spring half marathon in 1:57 and a fall half marathon in 1:58, on total mileage of 1285 miles.

                        In 2007, I ran a spring half marathon in 1:53 and a fall marathon in 4:01, on total mileage of 1842 miles that year.

                        In 2008, I ran  a spring half marathon in 1:46 and a fall marathon in 3:51, on total mileage of 2002 miles that year.