mediocrity (Read 450 times)


Right on Hereford...

     A 40 year-old amateur whose potential is 4:30 who runs 60 miles per week for 8 years

     

    Does such a person exist?

     

    I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. There is nobody who can run 60 miles per week for 8 years and has a "genetic potential limit" of a 4:30 marathon.


    Blue Moon Hater

      I don't believe this would be true.  I think the mistake you're making is mixing edurance/long distance speed with explosive power.  It's highly unlikely that Cheruiyot ever becomes a runner with world class 100m speed just because he trains like a sprinter.

       

       

      Yes. What do you think are the physical traits of someone destined to be a great runner? Other than one should probably be under a certain weight, and perhaps statistically there is a height range (e.g. 6 feet or less, not sure how many great runners have been above 6 feet as opposed to below. e.g. Robert Cheruiyot is 6'3" and he's pretty darn good with a 2:07 at Boston)  and of course genetically gifted in terms of speed.  I really don't know what the traits are supposed to be other than that.

       

      And yes,I believe there are genetically-gifted runners in many different sports who probably could have been great in the running world, if they chose the sport early on, and trained as a runner (which is is what I meant with my initial post--probable runners). If you start young and train as a football player or baseball player, the training creates a completely different body in terms of composition and weight. There are some really fast players, but they weigh 200+ pounds, even at at 5'8".  Cheruiyot weighs 154 pounds at 6'3"--if he trained as a football player, he'd weigh 210 pounds maybe, and wouldn't be running Boston in 2:07, even though he'd still have the genetic potential to do so..

       

      Isn't it possible some of these genetically gifted pro-players would have had different looking bodies if they chose endurance running in high school? I'm sure some of these players were just as fast and gifted as the greatest XC runners in their state. Just because someone is a great runner, doesn't mean they are going to join the track or XC team. Not when there are so many other attractive choices. In baseball, someone fast like a Rickey Henderson (who weighed 180+ and was that fast) or a Carl Crawford, is it possible? I think it is. Ultimately, this is an imagination game I'm playing, but it's not that far out to think such a thing is likely.

      There was a point in my life when I ran. Now, I just run.

       

      Well, fuckers

      He still stands

       

      The Diary of a Once-ran.

         

        Does such a person exist?

         

        I'm going to go out on a limb and say no. There is nobody who can run 60 miles per week for 8 years and has a "genetic potential limit" of a 4:30 marathon.

         

        They absolutely do when you pull numbers out of your ass, like I've been doing.Cool

        log   prs      Crusted Salt comic #143

         

          This thread on mediocrity has ironically added a little fuel to my fire.

           

          Me too!  Well, initially it did.   The mediocrity thread had me excited!  It had me enthused!

           

          Then the fun part died, it got all serious + became a debate, and now I am just finding it to be Mediocre.... Joking

          The Plan (big parts)→  /// April:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon (Staying at the Waldorf Astoria, its a "Bucket List" thing.  Can someone loan me some Zamunda money to help pay for it?)   ∞


          Mmmmm...beer

            I think it's funny that the discussion about other athletes who *might* have been great runners if they hadn't chose another sport has only focused on distance running, you guys realize that there's more out there than just marathons, right?  There's quite a few fast guys in the NFL, at short distances of course, who might have been great runners if they had focused on running instead of football.  Chris Johnson (RB for the Titans) has said in the past that he thinks he would have been able to give Bolt some competition had he decided to stay focused on track instead of switching to football.  We'll never know, but I do think that there is the possibility that great would-be runners are hiding in other sports.

            -Dave

             

            2014 Goals | sub-19 5k done! | sub-1:26 HM | BQ done!

              I think that the top runners are the best athletes in the World.  The competition pool is far bigger thanany other spevery early everyone has run a mile but not everyone has thrown a football, baskethockey played hockey, or swam.  Track is accessible to all.  Track olympic trials begin in grade school when the good runners stand out and keep moving up to the next level.


              Right on Hereford...

                We are talking about distance running (which is the 1500 and up, not just marathons) because it seemed obvious from jimmyb's first post on the topic that he wasn't talking about sprinting.

                 

                Sure, there are some nfl players who would make decent, if not national caliber sprinters.

                 

                I think it's funny that the discussion about other athletes who *might* have been great runners if they hadn't chose another sport has only focused on distance running, you guys realize that there's more out there than just marathons, right?  There's quite a few fast guys in the NFL, at short distances of course, who might have been great runners if they had focused on running instead of football.  Chris Johnson (RB for the Titans) has said in the past that he thinks he would have been able to give Bolt some competition had he decided to stay focused on track instead of switching to football.  We'll never know, but I do think that there is the possibility that great would-be runners are hiding in other sports.


                Muddling through

                  We are talking about distance running (which is the 1500 and up, not just marathons) because it seemed obvious from jimmyb's first post on the topic that he wasn't talking about sprinting.

                  Sure, there are some nfl players who would make decent, if not nationsl caliber sprinters.

                   

                   

                  There have been NFL players who have been Olympic sprinters and medalists, the most notable being Bob Hayes. Herschel Walker also was in the Winter Olympics as part of a bobsled team. Willie Gault is another and I think Renaldo Nehemiah may have played in the NFL briefly.

                  2014 Goals: Run first trail ultra, first 100K, and see what I can do in a 24-Hour race

                    I remember 30 years or so ago there was an argument floating around that America had lost its edge in distance events because high school coaches were peaking the athletes too early and they would better reach their potential if their training were to peak in their mid to late twenties.  The East Africans have proven that is bunk of course since they all run from a very early age.

                      I think that the top runners are the best athletes in the World.  The competition pool is far bigger thanany other spevery early everyone has run a mile but not everyone has thrown a football, baskethockey played hockey, or swam.  Track is accessible to all.  Track olympic trials begin in grade school when the good runners stand out and keep moving up to the next level.

                       

                      Yes, but the glory and money is in football and basketball, so that may be pulling potential runners out of this pool.

                      Well at least someone here is making relevance to the subject.


                      Right on Hereford...

                         

                        Yes, but the glory and money is in football and basketball, so that may be pulling potential runners out of this pool.

                         

                        No. Just look at the height and weight of professional football and basketball players vs. height and weight of elite runners. That alone should answer the question.

                         

                        Slow twitch vs. fast twitch muscle could answer the question by itself, as well.

                        J-L-C


                           

                          Of course they're not in the same league, or the same level of sport. That's not what I wrote about. The individual achievement in relation to ultimate potential is the same.

                           

                          If 4:30 is the best someone could ever possibly do, it is their ultimate potential. Then yes it is equal in triumph and awesomeness, because they reached their limit. Their peak. The best they could ever do. No matter how hard they work the rest of their lives, they will never exceed that performance.

                           

                           

                          But it's not.

                           

                          A 4:30 marathon is not the ultimate genetic potential of any fully functioning, healthy individual that isn't a child or a senior citizen (though I'm sure there are people in both categories that could eclipse such a mark).

                           

                          Suffice to say that virtually no one that isn't running for a living is training or performing at their ultimate genetic potential. There are other responsibilities, hobbies, etc. that also play a part.

                           

                          You may think that it's awesome for someone limiting themselves with life to hit some performance goal (and sure, I don't disagree), but I genuinely feel it's ridiculous for anyone to claim it's of equal awesomeness or triumph to someone running a 2:06 marathon or something of the sort.

                           

                          Let's face it, the non-elite does the best they can do under the circumstances they're in. It's very likely not the best they could do, period. Elites are performing at a level much closer to their "genetic potential" than anyone running for a hobby. And that, in part, is what makes it that much more exciting.

                           

                          Pushing the envelope of what we thought a human was capable of doing. You're going to assert that someone out "busting their butt" (which they're not, of course) for eight years to run a 4:30 marathon is awesome or a triumph on equal footing with Makau or Radcliffe's world records? I don't think so.

                          Better I Leave


                             Slow twitch vs. fast twitch muscle could answer the question by itself, as well.

                             

                            Agreed. Which is precisely why I accept that I will never be a "fast" runner. But I do like running...weird, eh? **grin**

                              When I was in high school, the guy who held the mile record at our school was also the state wrestling champion for his weight class.

                               

                              Having both wrestled and run the 1500 in high school, I'm not in the least bit surprised at this. Wrestling is, among other things, an endurance sport. If you don't pin or get pinned, a match can last six incredibly intense minutes, which is longer than it takes to run a competitive mile. I've always thought the two had many similarities.


                              Fat butt on couch

                                 

                                But it's not.

                                 

                                A 4:30 marathon is not the ultimate genetic potential of any fully functioning, healthy individual that isn't a child or a senior citizen (though I'm sure there are people in both categories that could eclipse such a mark).

                                 

                                Suffice to say that virtually no one that isn't running for a living is training or performing at their ultimate genetic potential. There are other responsibilities, hobbies, etc. that also play a part.

                                 

                                You may think that it's awesome for someone limiting themselves with life to hit some performance goal (and sure, I don't disagree), but I genuinely feel it's ridiculous for anyone to claim it's of equal awesomeness or triumph to someone running a 2:06 marathon or something of the sort.

                                 

                                Let's face it, the non-elite does the best they can do under the circumstances they're in. It's very likely not the best they could do, period. Elites are performing at a level much closer to their "genetic potential" than anyone running for a hobby. And that, in part, is what makes it that much more exciting.

                                 

                                Pushing the envelope of what we thought a human was capable of doing. You're going to assert that someone out "busting their butt" (which they're not, of course) for eight years to run a 4:30 marathon is awesome or a triumph on equal footing with Makau or Radcliffe's world records? I don't think so.

                                 

                                +1.

                                 

                                I cheer for anyone out there getting it done, but one can celebrate their own achievements by their personal value without the need to somehow validate them through such unrealistic comparisons.

                                 

                                There are plenty of examples of former elite runners who, not many years after they stop competing at the world level, are not a whole lot better than a decent or perhaps really good hobby runner.  That helps illustrate how hard they were working to get to where they were at their peak.  Sure they had crazy talent, but that's not enough.  You also need to work crazy hard.

                                 

                                I'm sure I'm not alone in being able to say that if someone had been able to tell me when I started running what I PRs would end up being, I would have told them they were nuts.  Most of us have absolutely no idea how talented we are, because you don't know until you're pushing the boundaries and have been doing so for several years.

                                 

                                But, it's an easy crutch to say one is not talented and therefore it is not worth trying so hard.

                                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand