>General Running>Running Wizard for which goal race?
If you had relatively empty June and July, but races on top of races in August through mid September, but are leaning toward goal races in mid September and some other races in August, would you
1. get a marathon schedule aiming for late July marathon and maintain fitness through August and early Sept. OR
2. get marathon schedule for mid September and do other races as training runs OR
3. not try a RW schedule because I feel a need for longer long runs and lots of hills, not to mention I struggle with structure in recreation.
Note: I used the endurance part of a 10k schedule a couple years ago as faster training for an early 10k and mid-season ultra. I liked it a lot, but ran into problems with snow and timing of phases. This year with different race schedule, I'm thinking about trying it again to train for late season marathon (rather than early season race).
Snow conditions will likely govern a lot of what I do until late March. My main races will involve 3000+ft in a marathon and 12,000ft in a 10-hr climbathon. Duration will be in the 7.5-10 hr range. (7:25 is about the median for 65-69F AG)
Races I'm leaning toward
Aug 17 Alyeska Classic mtn run (prep for climbathon, was 3 wks out last year, which was ideal)
Sept 14 Alyeska Climbathon 10 hr. Aiming for 6 laps = 12,000ft uphill in 14.4mi = 2000ft up in 2.4mi, tram down, repeat for up to 10 hr. (I did 5 laps in 8 hrs this past year, but need a bit more endurance / stamina to get the 6th in)
Sept 21 Equinox Marathon – assuming they keep the course modifications in from 2012. For the 50th running they got some one-day permits to continue to use some special features of the course plus added some sweet single track. Without these, I’m not sure I’m interested in doing the race again. With them, I think I can do better than what I’ve done (7:38, aiming for about 7:25, median for 65-69F in 2012). (about 3500ft up in loop course, hybrid road / trail)
Other races as long runs (destination = scenery) might include
July 20 McCarthy marathon. (pretty scenery, I believe the first half of it is similar to HM I did a few years ago, fits schedule better than Aug 4))
Aug 4 Yukon River Trail Marathon (one I'd really like to do eventually, but involves lots of driving right before a busy week)
One of these could be the kickoff to racing season.
Or one of these might become goal race, but doubt it.
The consecutive races on Sept 14 and 21 isn’t as bad as it appears since the Climbathon is all uphill (no downhill banging) and includes much hiking, even for the top folks. 1 wk recovery worked reasonably well in 2012 when I did this same combination.
I think many of the RW workouts can be adapted to hills of various shapes and sizes. I would probably use longer long runs than 2.5hr (probably 6ish hrs), just based on my prior experience. Long runs on trails - with hiking - do not involve the same impacts as long runs on flat asphalt and help with dress rehearsal stuff. I'm not convinced that a 2.5hr run prepares one for 7.5-10 hr of race - even when doing b2b runs like that.
(note: I haven't entered all older data in log, and most recent data is on loose snow, occasionally packed)
it sounds to me a little like you would make so many changes to a rw plan that it wouldn't be the same plan any more. Is that at all accurate? On the other hand, you'll be able to do some good base building April-July, and running wizard can definitely help you with that. if you decide to go with rw, I would aim for a Sept goal race and use the other races as training runs.
I don't even know, though, if rw offers plans for 7 hour races...does ultrarunning call for a different kind of training altogether? (I am asking because I don't know. Not a rhetorical question.) I'm sure nobby will be along to tell us about that
Thanks. The hills shouldn't be too big a deal since RW is based on time and intensity, rather than distance and pace, which is a major advantage of RW over other programs. When they were first starting this, I believe one of the guys was a mountain runner and using RW for his own training plus that of his team. It is an issue on out/back unless you can find rolling hills with similar amount of up and down for out/back. But if you understand the intent, it's not that big a deal.
The duration of the long run is something that's been discussed several times in various fora - always with differences of opinion. Typically ultra runners may use 6-8 hr long runs or shorter b2b runs for training - test gear, hydration, electrolytes, but also for the body to adapt to longer durations. But the long runs may only be every 2 wks. It's been said that 3-4 hrs is the minimum duration for long runs for ultras. (this is why they get put in a separate forum / group ) But a long run on hilly trails is a different animal than a long run on flat asphalt.
I also found on the 5-day schedule, that moving Fri to Thurs tended to work better for me in terms of available time with rest of life and snow storms, but it varied.
Just looking at the 10k pgm, I'm not sure there's a big issue with the longer long runs (although I did notice a log comment about the out/back on snow the day before long run on snow being a challenge, which is good in some respects). I'm not sure if the marathon one would have more volume in the later stages, which would make it difficult to use longer long runs. But sometimes when you actually try the workouts, you get a different perspective. That's why I'm asking.