Forums >Racing>2011 Goal of Sub-3:00 Marathon
I'll also drop my number quite a bit next year, I imagine... 20 last year, 15 this year (plus whatever I run in December), most of that total after Boston '09. Now I'm focusing on training for Boston '11. If that goes well I may then train for Chicago. So, less room in the schedule for marathons for fun.
Thoughts on what a 1:22:00 half could translate into? (assuming some sort of decent training)
I think in the 3-hr neighborhood the old 2xHM + 10 minutes is a pretty good predictor of the lower bound on the time. 2:54. I find McMillan, although dead on for me at most other distances, to be a bit optimistic at 26.2.
- Joe
We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.
Grandma's, San Fran, Anchorage Alaska??
Okoboji? http://www.threesons.com/
2:59 wins it!
I have no business posting here 'cept to say as the Rain Man of marathons that Okoboji is HOT and occasionally (I really do mean occasionally, but more than some places) the people toward the front get lost miss a turn and run extra. If'n you are stretching to go sub-3 "somewhere", the mighty O isn't going to do you any favors.
But grab a brew at the student union building... good stuff.
YoYo
Ok - This is my training plan for my 2nd sub3 attempt in April 2011.
To date I have been building mileage at easy to medium pace, 7:15 -7: 45s but mostly around 7:30s. So far I am running 5 days consisting of a medium long run on Sunday which is now up to 15m, 3 midweek runs around 10m and a 5-6 milie recovery on Saturday. So far totalling 50m/wk. I want to increase this to 60 by the end of year. I will increase the Sunday run to 18m min. and increase one of the mid week runs to 13-15m. All at easyish pace with a few marathon paced miles on one of the midweek runs and on a couple of the long runs. The aim for next year is to build to 70m/wk and to get about 6no. 20m runs in (Jan - March). I will increase a couple of these and slow the pace to ensure I get 3hrs on my feet which i feel is important for me. I will introduce a 6th day running which will probably be recovery although i would need it to be around 10m to make up the 70ms. Would I be better doubling up this day ie 2 x 5 or should I do 7 days running instead? I do like a day off after the long Sunday run. I dont intend to do a lot of interval work but I will probably build a few fast sections into my 10m runs.
For my last marathon I followed Pfitzinger 55m/wk but I felt I came up short on endurance and died around the 21m mark. There were other factors too such as nutrition and weight but my gut feeling was that I didnt have the miles under my belt. I will incorporate some of the principles of Pfitz again but loosely and i will make my main aim building good solid endurance.
What are your thoughts.
Thanks
"The will to win means nothing without the will to prepare." Goals: Keep on running!
pnone, I too have no business posting here, but I'm curious why you're at 5 days/week. The prevailing wisdom around here seems to be to run as frequently as possible -- basically, training streaks broken by days when your body tells you it needs a break.
"I want you to pray as if everything depends on it, but I want you to prepare yourself as if everything depends on you."
-- Dick LeBeau
pnone - I too followed Pfitzinger for a recent marathon and missed my target (3:15) due to running out of steam in the last 5 or 6 km. I'm planning to do Paris in April and hope to hit 3:15. I've just started ramping up the milage after a few very easy weeks, but my plan this time is to focus pretty much exclusively on low-intensity, high-volume stuff for a couple of months before adding in some higher intensity workouts. This is kind of an experiment, to see how it goes compared with the last marathon and training.
Gotta leave a little time for family & work!
The shirtless wonder
I roughly followed Pftiz 55/70 plan and hit my goal. One of the modifications I made to the plan was that I made my long runs longer. If, for example, the plan called for a 5 miles run on Saturday and a 15 mile run on Sunday I'd do 20 on Sunday instead. I ran a lot of 20+ mile runs in preparation for my marathon. More experienced runners will say that you don't need to do so many very long runs but I felt like I did.
My last 10k of that race was the fastest section of the race (and no, I didn't sandbag the beginning of the race).
My training then, and now, is almost always 5 days/week. Lately it has been 6 workouts each week.
mta:
But I haven't done sub-3 yet and I'm in a whole league slower than most of you.
run.therowes.net
I feel I need to do more long runs and especially to get a couple of 3hour runs in.
The first thing that came to mind is that you're probably running a little too fast on your easy days, making it harder than it should be to build mileage and do quality workouts.
"Slow down" is a knee-jerk mantra on these boards (which itself is a pet peeve of mine and so I hesitate to even mention it), but it's what jumps out at me. You mention your average pace in the very first sentence of the paragraph summarizing your training, so it's clearly something you pay attention to.
The lion's share of your mileage--at least 4 or 5 days a week--should be at an "I really don't care" pace. I have a couple of 2:49's, the most recent being 6 weeks ago, and the majority of my easy mileage is slower than yours. I don't try to run a particular pace on easy days at all, just keep it relaxed and easy. I time these runs because I like to keep track of how many hours a week I spend on training, but I could just as easily estimate the time and if you're someone who feels like a slave to the watch on easy days then maybe leaving the watch at home for easy runs would be a good idea, at least for a while.
I would dispute the importance of spending 3 hours on your feet. Building overall volume in terms of weekly and monthly mileage will have a much bigger impact on your basic endurance than your longest runs will. And, I agree with Clive, the more days a week the better, generally. If you need two days a week off to recover, that's another sign that your easy days are too fast. The best people in our sport are running every day, even twice a day.
And I guess since I have no plans to run a sub 3 hour marathon in 2011, I too should state that have no business in this thread, but hey. I'm not much for rules ans stuff.
Runners run
Feeling the growl again
Ok - This is my training plan for my 2nd sub3 attempt in April 2011. To date I have been building mileage at easy to medium pace, 7:15 -7: 45s but mostly around 7:30s. So far I am running 5 days consisting of a medium long run on Sunday which is now up to 15m, 3 midweek runs around 10m and a 5-6 milie recovery on Saturday. So far totalling 50m/wk. I want to increase this to 60 by the end of year. I will increase the Sunday run to 18m min. and increase one of the mid week runs to 13-15m. All at easyish pace with a few marathon paced miles on one of the midweek runs and on a couple of the long runs. The aim for next year is to build to 70m/wk and to get about 6no. 20m runs in (Jan - March). I will increase a couple of these and slow the pace to ensure I get 3hrs on my feet which i feel is important for me. I will introduce a 6th day running which will probably be recovery although i would need it to be around 10m to make up the 70ms. Would I be better doubling up this day ie 2 x 5 or should I do 7 days running instead? I do like a day off after the long Sunday run. I dont intend to do a lot of interval work but I will probably build a few fast sections into my 10m runs. For my last marathon I followed Pfitzinger 55m/wk but I felt I came up short on endurance and died around the 21m mark. There were other factors too such as nutrition and weight but my gut feeling was that I didnt have the miles under my belt. I will incorporate some of the principles of Pfitz again but loosely and i will make my main aim building good solid endurance. What are your thoughts. Thanks
Mikey's post is good, read it again. Also, there IS such a thing as too slow; you are combining relatively low frequency and lowish volume with not much in the way of real workouts...I would be concerned about your ability to acheive your goals off of this. Where are tempos and other faster work? Marathon pace (goal pace, that is) will not be so easy towards the end of the race if it is about the fastest you have run during training.
Also, if you feel the need to run 3 hrs in training (which is not a bad thing, no matter one's goal time I think 3hrs is about all that is necessary) don't slow down run longer. If you need to run 3hrs do 22 miles, otherwise you are slowing down almost a minute per mile for "time on feet", but that time is not exposing you to anywhere near the type of stimuli as the race will.
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
The first thing that came to mind is that you're probably running a little too fast on your easy days, making it harder than it should be to build mileage and do quality workouts. "Slow down" is a knee-jerk mantra on these boards (which itself is a pet peeve of mine and so I hesitate to even mention it), but it's what jumps out at me.longest runs will. And, I agree with Clive, the more days a week the better, generally. If you need two days a week off to recover, that's another sign that your easy days are too fast. The best people in our sport are running every day, even twice a day.
"Slow down" is a knee-jerk mantra on these boards (which itself is a pet peeve of mine and so I hesitate to even mention it), but it's what jumps out at me.longest runs will. And, I agree with Clive, the more days a week the better, generally. If you need two days a week off to recover, that's another sign that your easy days are too fast. The best people in our sport are running every day, even twice a day.
I have been trying to slow down! For my last marathon a lot of miles were between 7:00 & 7: 20 so I conciously decided to stay around the 7:30 mark this time. I think I read somewhere that this should be my easy/ long run pace based on goal pace. 7:30s feel ok at the moment but I do intend to slow it down a bit more on the long runs. Generally I like running at the slightly faster paces as I feel like Im running. If I slow down to 8's i get a little bored. However I will give it a try. I am a marathon newbie (this will be no.2) so I will take all advice on board. Thanks
I think I read somewhere that this should be my easy/ long run pace based on goal pace.
Your training pace should NEVER be based on your goal pace. It should be based on where you are at, and move towards what it would be if you were in goal pace shape today. If you START training at what your goal pace says you should do, you are really assuming that you are in goal pace shape...or you are running too fast.
For easy runs this is not typically a big deal...but for workouts it can be.
Your training pace should NEVER be based on your goal pace. It should be based on where you are at, and move towards what it would be if you were in goal pace shape today. If you START training at what your goal pace says you should do, you are really assuming that you are in goal pace shape...or you are running too fast. For easy runs this is not typically a big deal...but for workouts it can be.
I do realise this but it does feel an easy pace for the mileage and type of workouts Im doing at the moment. As i increase the miles and start to throw in some faster stuff I may have to slow down to keep it easy.