Forums >Racing>2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run.
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Regarding the downhill courses, the stuff about your quads taking a pounding is way overstated. Below is the link for the half I ran a few weeks back. You can see it's about a 700' drop with most of it over the middle 5 miles. I feel like my feet to the brunt of the punishment simply from the sliding in my shoes on such steep downhills, but I was still fine the next day (and the night of the race dancing and drinking all night at a family wedding lol).
https://www.strava.com/activities/1902359374
5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)
*downhill AF
RIP Milkman
Steve (I still want to call you Squirrel) - Spent a lot of my childhood in Rockaway Beach (Beach 90th Street) as my father grew up there and grandmother was located there until Sandy. Glad to hear things are on the up for you, I think you were injured when I joined RWOL.
Kram - I think you're right, I probably squeezed every ounce out of that race as possible. At best, I could have caught off maybe 1 minute if I paced it perfectly. What's your training plan over the winter? Sticking with Daniels style? I'm warming up to the idea (pun intended) of doing more treadmill stuff if it's miserable outside. My office has a free gym in our basement so it's just the mental barrier I need to get over.
Madison - Thanks! I'm really thinking of CIM as my fall/winter marathon next year, although I didn't know that about the sports drink. By the way, if you can pull off a fast time here it would be super impressive. Most guys I know that are at your talent level have trouble even breaking 3 when they turn it around this quickly, but you do have a lot more experience than others I've seen attempt this.
Me - Taking things very easy. I'm much less sore after this marathon than my previous two, but I want to give my foot a chance to heal as the metatarsalgia pain I was dealing with in the taper has not gone away (see, not taper nonsense but real pain!) I'll probably run a few miles tomorrow but then another 4 days off for a golf trip. I'm hoping a 10 day break post marathon should be enough because Boston is a quick turnaround and I want to get back out there.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
JMac, coincidental. Obviously, Rockaway looks very different now than it did pre-Sandy. Thanks for the kind words.
2) I wonder if quad strengthening would help me given they are always the first thing to give out on me, with no other pain ever surfacing. I might focus on some squats over the next month or two during my low period before mileage really builds up. I'm especially worried about this given the Boston hills
Squats will always help. But yes, definitely start them before you begin any serious portion of your cycle. I generally like to do heavy weights once a week (I've tried 2x and 3x, and for various reasons, they don't seem to work as well for me specifically). Every time I start lifting after an absence, it takes me 3+ weeks before I'm not totally trashed for several days.
As for helping you on the downhills in Boston, yes, they'll help. I think the squats help the worse you are at running downhill. If it's something you're not used to, you tend to have crappy downhill running form and impact your quads more (also, I assume the more downhill you run, the stronger your quads get). With the hills in NYC, I'm sure your downhill running form is fine, so it won't be as bad. There's only a couple of spots in Boston where it's super hard downhill running (I think it's the first mile and mile 16). The rest of the downhills are gentle enough.
Upcoming races: Boston
3 days left for me until the Harrisburg marathon. Weather looks a tiny bit chilly, but otherwise lovely. 30s, plenty of sun, and no wind! My foot seems to be behaving similar to Jmac's... annoying but manageable. Taping it up definitely helps. I'm a bit concerned about how it will hold up wearing my lighter kinvara's (which I hope are in good shape but I can't really tell), and I'll add an insert and hope for the best. My steroid treatment did not help me do anything but gain weight, but the only serious sickness symptom I have is my breathing issues, and I won't know until Sunday how bad it is. It's been warmer here as of late, so maybe the cool crisp air will help.
Doesn't look like there is any tracking for Harrisburg. My plan is to maybe start behind the 3hr pacer, and pass him a couple miles in if I'm feeling well and maybe try a 1:28:30 half. The course has a few minor hills mostly early, but overall is really flat. I think I may have 2:57ish fitness in these conditions, but I've only had one speedwork session on a track in the last 2 months (for a variety of reasons) so I don't have as great a read as I would like. The 2:57 is also factoring in a bonus 2 or 3 minutes saved with caffeine, based on the research I've done. I've done a few trial runs, but I've never taken it on a full carb-loaded stomach, so don't know how that will change things, but I think it's worth the risk. Stretch goal is to get 2:58 and qualify for NYC marathon, but I'll be quite satisfied with anything under 3hrs. Not going to lie...anything over 3 hrs will be pretty devastating at the end of this cycle.
5k- 18:55 (2018) 10K- 39:04 (2017) Marathon- 3:00:10 (2018)
Sling: If there is a 3hr pacer, hang with him. He'll likely be pacing something like 2:59 anyway to account for easing up a little at the line. Given your illness etc., conserve every ounce by letting him keep track of the pace and if you feel good, you can go with a few miles to go or else just hang onto him for dear life. A sub3 would be great given what you've had to put up with over that past 6 weeks. Btw, there's a dusting snow/slop arriving here in the lower mitten tomorrow, not sure if that might travel your way, but something to be prepared for.
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Sling good luck I hope you have a great race.
Whats this about caffeine ? Does it really save 2 mins or more. I never heard that.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Whats this about caffeine ? Does it really save 2 mins or more.
No.
sling - I second kramrunner. With your situation, talk to 3 hr pacer, check if he paced this race before, ask his plan and save all the energy you can until miles 18-20 and see how you feel by then. Do not go for planned positive split - second half can be nasty. That is my opinion for hitting a target time. But, certainly, I didn't follow your training - so, the final decision what to do is up to you. You will get valuable experience doesn't matter what the outcome will be. Good luck!
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Mmmm Bop
Sling good luck I hope you have a great race. Whats this about caffeine ? Does it really save 2 mins or more. I never heard that.
Worth a try....but I’ll still beat you in Brighton. 😀
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
Add in some Vaporflys and theres 10 mins
Caffeine is not going to give you a couple of extra minutes out of nowhere. I alluded to it in my race report, but run the fitness level you're at, not a time. If you're in 6:45 MP, then run that pace. If you're in 6:50 pace, then run that pace. Most importantly though, do not plan on a positive split, that's how you get a +5 minute blow up in the second half. If someone is in exactly 2:59:59 shape and goes out in anything faster than 1:29, I don't think it's going to go well.
Well I seem to really be cursed on this cycle. My race is tomorrow morning and my legs still feel kind of banged up. And to top it all off got the call from school yesterday morning to pick up a sick kid who got the stomach bug going around. Well guess who got it last night. I've been up since 1:30am and just feel nauseous and upset stomach. So much for carb loading. If I can hold anything down that is the goal. Can't wait to see how those gels go down tomorrow! Also looks like the weather is a bit cooler than I'd prefer in the upper 20s to start but can't really complain about that.
Good luck to Sling and Madison and anyone else running this weekend.
Stretch goal is to get 2:58 and qualify for NYC marathon, but I'll be quite satisfied with anything under 3hrs. Not going to lie...anything over 3 hrs will be pretty devastating at the end of this cycle.
A few things:
1. If 2:58 gets you in to NYC, a 1:25 half will get you in. So just go and run that in a few weeks. 1:25 is WAAAAAAYYYYY easier to run than a sub 3 for the vast majority of runners. I think I could've easily run a 1:25 last weekend, yet blew up trying to run 3:10-15.
2. Use Cal's approach of thinking about your last marathon's mile pace, and this one. A 3:02 is 6:56 per mile. Sub 3 is 6:51. Assuming you're ever so slightly in better shape (which usually you are even if you just repeat the last cycle), you should be fine shaving off 5 to 6 seconds per mile. Try to click off your miles in the 6:45-52 range and you should be fine.
3. You shouldn't go in to a marathon thinking that 2 minutes off of your stretch goal will be devastating. That alone seems to put an enormous amount of pressure on yourself which can cause you to have a bad race. Know that if you don't get it here, you'll get it in the next one.
Good luck!
A few things: 1. If 2:58 gets you in to NYC, a 1:25 half will get you in. So just go and run that in a few weeks. 1:25 is WAAAAAAYYYYY easier to run than a sub 3 for the vast majority of runners. I think I could've easily run a 1:25 last weekend, yet blew up trying to run 3:10-15.
Andres I just assumed you ran for fun last week. Did you do a report ? We could still learn alot from your blow up
Belated Congrats, JMac! I really enjoyed reading your race report, and following your training the past few months. More great results like that in your future.
Good luck this weekend to:
Me: I jogged in about an inch of snow this morning. It was 19 degrees F and windy, too. Tomorrow’s forecast is even colder for my planned 20-miler. Oh yeah, I signed up for another marathon in December — Rocket City in Alabama. One more shot at a sub-3 before turning to XC skiing for the winter months.
There are a lot of really fast people that have joined recently, which is great. I am a wannabe who will need ideal conditions and a bit of luck to break 3. But I’m still trying 24 years after my first marathon. I won’t be disappointed if I don’t hit it this time ... maybe I’m not taking enough caffeine?