Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020 (Read 607 times)

JMac11


Taper Czar

    Steve - noted on the Race Report, I'll write a real (but brief) one. NZ certification is a joke. Even Mark's reorganized "10K", it's like the organizers aren't even trying. I could reroute any course and get the damn thing to at least 9.9K.

     

    Regarding your race, the heart rate is alarming. I don't think it's physical, otherwise you'd see these same spikes in your training, which you're not, at least on the heart/lungs. I guess it could be taper? I really think there's a mental aspect of this unfortunately though. You're getting coached now so my word won't matter much, but I really do think you should try that 15K at a 3:12 pace. It'll tell you a lot. Heart Rate spikes early in races though say it's either bad sleep, taper problems, or race anxiety.If you fail a race here and there, that's usually something you can point to. When you fail a lot of races in a row, there's something broader going on and not a single event (like an adventure race or w/e)

     

    Mark - I think this thread has become your personal thoughts page! Every page is at least half your posts  Trying to time a taper though with no knowledge of a set race though is impossible for the marathon. Much easier with shorter distances. I don't envy the position you're in.

     

    Zebano - 7x1K is a tough workout, good job. And yes, my 5K time is pathetic. Do you know in the middle of it I literally thought "I'm still running 45 seconds per mile slower than Kipchoge's marathon pace." Regarding the knee, that does sound like classic runner's knee, but I really don't know anyone who has been running more than a few months in their entire life that gets that. It's always a new runner's issue, like shin splints.

     

    Keen - I like what you did this morning. Did one of those when I was down in the dumps running like 9:00 easy runs, and found out my fitness was way better than expected. It's a good confidence booster

    5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

     

    Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

    Marky_Mark_17


      Mark - I think this thread has become your personal thoughts page! Every page is at least half your posts  Trying to time a taper though with no knowledge of a set race though is impossible for the marathon. Much easier with shorter distances. I don't envy the position you're in.

       

       

      Yeah, sorry.  It's pre-taper-madness-madness.

      5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

      HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

      Last race: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov, 1:20:08

      Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, and hopefully a few others before then

      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

      JMac11


      Taper Czar

        5K Time Trial

         

        This was meant to be a rust buster after my awful summer training schedule of slow jogging at MP+2:30. I have gotten in 3 weeks of 5K/10K training, but I need a full 12 weeks to feel like I'm really ready to race. This was a "remember how much 5Ks hurt" type of time trial. Probably more importantly, we got a beautiful forecast: mid 60s, low dew point. For September in NYC, that is perfect.

         

        Went to my usual trail I've been doing these time trials on since they have REAL certified 5Ks, 10Ks, and Half Marathons marked. The trail is also completely flat, and somewhat covered from the sun. Can't ask for more.

         

        Race/TT Notes

         

        I went with the VF, which I'm happy I did. Didn't mind them at all for 5K pace, except at the turnaround point, which was a disaster. Otherwise, it was a good choice.

         

        A few things I noticed during the TT:

         

        1) I could have easily let the pace slip in the 2nd mile. In a half marathon or longer, I don't look at my watch except when it dings for each mile auto lap, but that was too risky in such a short race. I found my pace slipping in the beginning of the second mile, yet I wasn't actually that tired. I'm glad I checked that and was able to get the effort right back where it should be for a 5K

         

        2) At no point during this did my legs really hurt. For others that race 5K, do you have the same? I just couldn't get enough Oxygen in. I was breathing so damn hard and sucking in air, but legs felt great the whole time

         

        When I finished the second mile ahead of PR pace and my legs felt fine, I knew that I just had to keep the mental effort up and I would get home in time. I actually ran about 10 meters pass the finish line so I felt extra good about the PR.

         

        Final time was 16:42, a 9 second PR! Running a PR is always fun, but the fact that I've now run a PR in two of my three time trials makes me more proud that I didn't need a race setting to get it done.

         

        Rest of the Fall

         

        Will definitely do at least one more 5K and one 10K. I think my 5K goal is now sub 16:30, and my 10K goal is now a PR. If I get a great training block, I could go sub 16:15, and if I do that, I know I'm going to want to do go for 15:XX. Running times are too addicting.

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

           

           

          As one does when injured I've been reading way too much on runners knee/ PFPS and the majority of sites recommend rest.

           

           

           

          Some of the sites have recommended strengthening the VMO, right?  (inner quad muscle).  That's a standard recommendation.

           

          Funny story that I may have related before - About 13 years ago when I started running, I developed runners knee in my left leg.  Saw an Orthopedist who seemed like he should be good - worked with the college teams at GW University.

           

          He examined me, and told me sadly that my knee cap was misaligned, and I just wasn't built for running.  If I insisted on running, my knee would just hurt more and more as my cartilage wore down, grinded away by the knee cap.  In a few years I'd be done.

           

          I left him, did some reading, and started doing some VMO exercises in the gym.  The knee pain went away, and only very rarely flares for a day or so every other year.

           

          Since then, I take the advice of any medical professional who tells me I'm doomed (for various definitions of doomed) with a grain of salt.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            5K Time Trial

             

            This was meant to be a rust buster after my awful summer training schedule of slow jogging at MP+2:30. I have gotten in 3 weeks of 5K/10K training, but I need a full 12 weeks to feel like I'm really ready to race. This was a "remember how much 5Ks hurt" type of time trial. Probably more importantly, we got a beautiful forecast: mid 60s, low dew point. For September in NYC, that is perfect.

             

            Went to my usual trail I've been doing these time trials on since they have REAL certified 5Ks, 10Ks, and Half Marathons marked. The trail is also completely flat, and somewhat covered from the sun. Can't ask for more.

             

            Race/TT Notes

             

            I went with the VF, which I'm happy I did. Didn't mind them at all for 5K pace, except at the turnaround point, which was a disaster. Otherwise, it was a good choice.

             

            A few things I noticed during the TT:

             

            1) I could have easily let the pace slip in the 2nd mile. In a half marathon or longer, I don't look at my watch except when it dings for each mile auto lap, but that was too risky in such a short race. I found my pace slipping in the beginning of the second mile, yet I wasn't actually that tired. I'm glad I checked that and was able to get the effort right back where it should be for a 5K

             

            2) At no point during this did my legs really hurt. For others that race 5K, do you have the same? I just couldn't get enough Oxygen in. I was breathing so damn hard and sucking in air, but legs felt great the whole time

             

            When I finished the second mile ahead of PR pace and my legs felt fine, I knew that I just had to keep the mental effort up and I would get home in time. I actually ran about 10 meters pass the finish line so I felt extra good about the PR.

             

            Final time was 16:42, a 9 second PR! Running a PR is always fun, but the fact that I've now run a PR in two of my three time trials makes me more proud that I didn't need a race setting to get it done.

             

            Rest of the Fall

             

            Will definitely do at least one more 5K and one 10K. I think my 5K goal is now sub 16:30, and my 10K goal is now a PR. If I get a great training block, I could go sub 16:15, and if I do that, I know I'm going to want to do go for 15:XX. Running times are too addicting.

             

            So....what I find interesting is that a) you consider your training for this race to have been suboptimal, with just a few weeks of specific training and a lot of slogging before, but b) you set a PR, in a situation not conducive to PRing.

             

            One thing I would take from this (besides how good you are in time trialing) is that perhaps some of your assumptions about the best training for you can be revisited?  PRs don't happen by mistake once you get to your level.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            JamesD


            JamesD

              Steve - ...I really do think you should try that 15K at a 3:12 pace. It'll tell you a lot.

               

              If Steve can do 15K at a 3:12 pace, that would indeed tell him a lot. Maybe you meant 4:35 pace like you said in your earlier post?

               

              Congrats on the 5K PR.  Very impressive to do that in a TT.

              Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

              2021 Goals:  Stay healthy, 40+ mpw, Half<1:30; PR or 80% age-grade at some distance

              SteveChCh


              Hot Weather Complainer

                James - I think he meant at the pace of a 3:12 marathon = 4:35/km.  I will put it to my coach because I think that would be a good workout and should be very comfortable.

                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                watsonc123


                  James bet me to it. 15k at 3:12 pace would be good

                   

                  Jmac - nice RR.  I agree with Darkwave that your training block cannot be bad to PR.

                   

                  Steve - put me down for

                   

                  Saturday 19 October

                  Wellington Road Champs 10km

                  Aim 39:59

                  PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                   

                  40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    Should that be 19 September?  Or 17 October?

                    PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                    Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                    watsonc123


                      Due to Covid restrictions, the race has been split into two, with a morning race (guide is 40+ minute runners) and afternoon race (guide is sub 40 minutes).  I race in the afternoon (cannot make morning), so could come dead last with a PB.

                       

                      Could the winner of the Rotorua marathon be John Smith from Smithtown, who looks very similar to Mark except with Donald Trump style hair? 

                      PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)

                       

                      40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)

                      Marky_Mark_17


                         

                        Could the winner of the Rotorua marathon be John Smith from Smithtown, who looks very similar to Mark except with Donald Trump style hair? 

                         

                        This is my one chance to be Nathan Jones, although the hair disguise could certainly work.

                         

                        JMac- well done on another fine TT effort.  I'm glad the VF's worked well for you.  They suck on sharp corners but if there's only one it's no big deal!  I'd also say that you should be getting close to, if not below, 34 mins for a 10k now.

                        5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                        HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                        Last race: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov, 1:20:08

                        Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, and hopefully a few others before then

                        "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                        JMac11


                        Taper Czar

                          James - I think he meant at the pace of a 3:12 marathon = 4:35/km.  I will put it to my coach because I think that would be a good workout and should be very comfortable.

                           

                          Yeah this. It's a "Marathon Pace" workout, so 3:12 should get you to around a sub 1:30 half. If you find 15K at 4:35 to be easy, then there's something defintely wrong with race day. If it's hard, then it shows you need more long tempos to learn how to run hard for a long time

                           

                          DW - I think you're right. I hated how awful I felt all the time running MP+2:30 and then finding MP+1:30 to be so fast. I think though I was perhaps missing that OF COURSE it would feel hard to get back to fast running, but that after just a couple of weeks, I'd be in better shape.

                           

                          For the 5K itself, I think my time was a little soft, at least compared to VDOTs on other times. It's one of the reasons I want to put a really good cycle in this fall. I've done 5K/10K "cycles" before, but never where I got to race/TT in optimal conditions after a long cycle vs. a shortened one crammed between two marathon cycles.

                           

                          Anyway, my best VDOT is my marathon, which translates to a 16:19 5K and a 33:51 10K. I don't know if I'll get in as good of a shape as I was for CIM, but I think sub 16:30 and sub 34:30 should definitely be goals for me.

                          5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                           

                          Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            JMac - I also meant to add my congratulations.  Great effort in a TT and I agree you can go even faster.

                             

                            My last tempo workout of 3x3km @ HMP was 16km at an overall average pace of 4:25/km and felt comfortable - I know it's not the same as staying at MP for 15km with no rest but indicates that your suggested MP workout SHOULD be comfortable.

                             

                            Mark - if I was you I'd be tempted to turn up anyway.  Someone outside Rotorua will pull out and you could buy their race number.  It must be especially galling that the Auckland rugby team were able to play in Dunedin over the weekend.  What's the difference?

                            PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                            Recent Races:    Queenstown Half-Marathon (trail) November 21, 2020 1:35.11 Cherry Blossom Half-Marathon, September 13, 2020 1:33:38 Half-Marathon Time Trial May 31, 2020 1:31.51  Auckland Waterfront Half-Marathon 2019 1:30.49 

                            Plan for 2021:  Christchurch Half-Marathon April 11 (tempo/training run), Wellington Marathon June 27,  Queenstown Half-Marathon November 20

                            Marky_Mark_17


                              Mark - if I was you I'd be tempted to turn up anyway.  Someone outside Rotorua will pull out and you could buy their race number.  It must be especially galling that the Auckland rugby team were able to play in Dunedin over the weekend.  What's the difference?

                               

                              Nah, it's too risky.  Running even close to my goal time would get me in the top 10 and with Athletics NZ officials around, there's too much chance of getting busted, which would almost certainly get me banned from Athletics NZ events for a period of time.

                               

                              But I agree with your point - it seems ridiculous that I can sit in close proximity to 150+ strangers on an aircraft for 2 hours or more, yet there is an issue with me sharing a start line with others for probably all of 10 minutes.

                              5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                              HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              Last race: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov, 1:20:08

                              Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, and hopefully a few others before then

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              Marky_Mark_17


                                Anyhow while we're at it Steve, could you blame Covid and/or Athletics NZ and/or the Labour-led government for me not running the Rotorua Marathon, and add me in for Wairarapa Country Marathon, Oct 11, goal... you guessed it... 2:38:59.

                                5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                                HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                                Last race: Mt. Maunganui Half Marathon, 28 Nov, 1:20:08

                                Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 1 May, and hopefully a few others before then

                                "CONSISTENCY IS KING"