123

At what mileage is refueling necessary? (Read 1799 times)


Respect - WMO

    Camal backs would be better then a fuel belt.
    "Why Run?. . . Why Breathe?
      See, I have been kind of nervous about going with the training program, because I'm scared that I am too slow and they will all run off and leave me!! lol I had no idea that there were near 100 people in the training group on Saturdays... I signed up for the training, and get "mama hobbit's" emails, but haven't been on Saturdays. I've been running my long runs on Fridays... good info!! I will have to show up for one! Yeah, I plan on running the half, kinda nervous, but surely won't finish last! Cool
      ~Sarah~ My 2008 Goals: Little Rock HM (just finish it :)) Nike Women's Half Marathon San Francisco 10/19/08 5k < 30:00>
        Whether or not you need to "refuel" depends on your level of conditioning, the distance you run and your pace. At race pace, most of us will be good for around 20 miles before the gas gage starts bumping on empty. That is the point where many first timers bump into the proverbial "wall" which is where they literally run out of glycogen (carbohydrates). I've gone as far as 24 miles at an easy pace without supplemental nutrition. You won't need to worry about refueling for your half unless you are an elite runner running at a pace that is fast enough to deplete your glycogen reserves at a much higher rate. The most important thing for you to consider is hydration. If you weigh yourself before and after a long run you'll be surprised how much fluid you actually lose on a run. You'll need to replace whatever you lose to keep your muscles working effectively for the entire race. Good luck in March! Tom
        Trent


        Good Bad & The Monkey

          Whether or not you need to "refuel" depends on your level of conditioning, the distance you run and your pace. At race pace, most of us will be good for around 20 miles before the gas gage starts bumping on empty. That is the point where many first timers bump into the proverbial "wall" which is where they literally run out of glycogen (carbohydrates). I've gone as far as 24 miles at an easy pace without supplemental nutrition. You won't need to worry about refueling for your half unless you are an elite runner running at a pace that is fast enough to deplete your glycogen reserves at a much higher rate. The most important thing for you to consider is hydration. If you weigh yourself before and after a long run you'll be surprised how much fluid you actually lose on a run. You'll need to replace whatever you lose to keep your muscles working effectively for the entire race. Good luck in March! Tom
          Nice to see you here, Figbash. Well said as always. I couldn't agree more. I never worry about fuel during a run, but I absolutely am aware (even in cooler temps on long runs) about hydration and electrolytes.
            Camal backs would be better then a fuel belt.
            Maybe on a LONG run, sure, or in really hot weather. Personally, camel backs aren't all that comfortable for me (or my wife). We prefer fuel belts. When the temps are sky high, I grab a hand held as well. The point is...stay hydrated...regardless of the system used. If you have to carry a half gallon jug, then do it. Smile
              the gu packet says 15 minutes before and every 45 minutes. now I know they want to sell the product, but does anyone follow the directions?
              dfffff


                the gu packet says 15 minutes before and every 45 minutes. now I know they want to sell the product, but does anyone follow the directions?
                That's complete crap. I've never had to refuel on a run unless I hadn't been eating enough that day. My long runs go up to 17 miles and I only stop for water after maybe 10 or 12 miles. Every 45 minutes is ridiculous.
                  I usually won't bring water on runs under 10 miles unless it is really hot/humid. When I trained for my first marathon I took Gu on runs over 12 miles and used them every 45 minutes. Since then I haven't used them, and have done runs up to 15 miles so far. On the long runs before my first marathon they served as a mental tool. Taking a Gu break every 45 minutes helped break up the long outing. They certainly don't hurt your run any.

                  -------------------------------------
                  5K - 18:25 - 3/19/11
                  10K - 39:38 - 12/13/09
                  1/2 - 1:29:38 - 5/30/10
                  Full - 3:45:40 - 5/27/07

                    I think today's running and most of running related suggestions have been heavily commercialized. I don't believe in heavy bulky running shoes to "protect" and "support" your feet; I don't believe in carrying water bottle or energy gel during the run...in most cases. Yes, I have placed a frozen water bottle along the long run course when i was running with this young lady who was training for her first marathon--I would freeze a water bottle the night before and would drive to about 2/3 of the long run (which is about 16~18 miles) before our run so it would be nice and icy cold and melted by the time we reach there (this is during the summer, of course). We usually took a sip and mainly dump it over our head and neck. I don't like to run with a Camel Back; I don't like to run with water bottle belt. They tend to throw off balance. Carrying water bottle in hands is the worst--it tends to tighten your shoulders too much. It's just a personal preferance, I guess... I'd much rather go for a long run without any water stop--for the past 30+ years of running, I never quite bothered to "hydrate" during the run. Of course, I'd recommend people to locate the course with maybe a water fountain along the way or something "just in case". I sweat a lot but I never dehydrated... Okay, I'll take it back. I've had my share of "tough" runs; some of them I'm sure could have come from dehydration. One I can remember actually happened in a rather cool condition; I was doing a 10k tempo run and I guess I dehydrated and my sugar level went down too far. My body was shaking uncontrolably by the time I walked home. I don't know what triggered me but I took a cup of warm-water with honey and it stopped instantly. Interestingly, my wife doesn't sweat much and she needs water during the run more than I do. The thing is: you sweat to cool your body. She doesn't sweat much so she needs something to cool her more than I do. She has those water bottle belt but she doesn't use it much any more--it just bounces too much! She runs now with a group and they have water stations along their long run (MDRA training group). I guess I'm basically very lazy and I'd much rather schedule my long run early in the morinig when I wouldn't need to "hydrate" during the run. I've run up to 3-hours quite regularly and I've never had much trouble at all. In regards to refueling; if you're training for a marathon/half marathon, I'd play around with the idea of NOT refuleing during the long runs. Greg McMillan has writtten, I believe, an article about it in Running Times (or somewhere else). I've discussed this with him as well; as well as some other people like Lorraine Moller (bronze medalist in 1992 Olympic marathon). During the long runs, you're training your body to go through the wall; basically, switching your fuel sysgem from glycogen, after you run out of it, to fat. Fat produces much more energy per molecule but it requires more oxygen to burn. This physiological change is known as "the wall". The smoother you can switch, the less hard you'll hit it. Refuleing during the long run simply means you will be feeding your body more glycogen (or energy) and never tap it into your fat burning system. Now, in a strict physiology sense, this is probably not quite true because if you're running very slow, you are most likely starting out with fat burning system anyways. In other words, your hitting the wall during the marathon has more to do with tired legs. Basically, as someone else said before, we all have plenty of energy in our body to run a couple of marathons over; the issue is, can we use that energy more efficiently? Once again, if you continuously feeding yourself during the run, your body may never learn how to use your stored energy more efficiently. Now, I don't mean to sound like an old-fashioned grouchy coach (I may anyways! ;o)); if you simply want to enjoy your daily runs; then by all means! Make it as enjoyable as possible; you can stop and have a cup of capccino or whatever! (I'd go for that one!) But if you're actually training for something--like running a maraton; then you'll need to think about what purpose some of the "training" would provide for you. I'm totally against things like "No Pain, No Gain" or "You'll have to suffer during your training." In fact, I'm more of a believer of making trainng FUN! But there ARE some barriers you'll have to overcome in order to go a step beyond. It's not necessarily all fun and game, either. I remember the time, when I was doing series of hill sprints during a brutally hot and humid Japanese summer, I just couldn't continue any more and I sipped some water from a near-by paddle (not the bast sanitary practice!). That's a stupid practice--I should have hydrated myself before-hand and I shouldn't have been doing that in the middle of the day. But it ain't no tea-party either. You are teaching your body to go through a certain barrier to get stronger. SOME discomfort is expected. I guess I digressed a bit. If you're training for a marathon, I'd suggest you do SOME long runs without energy gel. I would, however, suggest you take a couple of during the last long run as a dress-rehearsal. You should take them during the actual marathon and you'll need to see if the product is compatible with your stomach of not (make sure you don't get some stomach trouble by taking it).
                      It's more time than distance. My 10 mile run yesterday took 3.5 hours!! (Of course, it was over the summits of two mountains through deep snow on trails) Over about 2 hours and I bring liquids. Over about 3 hours and I bring food and electrolytes. Over 12 hours and I bring a light. Tongue
                        It's more time than distance. My 10 mile run yesterday took 3.5 hours!! (Of course, it was over the summits of two mountains through deep snow on trails) Over about 2 hours and I bring liquids. Over about 3 hours and I bring food and electrolytes. Over 12 hours and I bring a light. Tongue
                        I take it back what I said (about Mr. Inertia); yous is by far the best comment! You're in a good company; I had a clinic in Victoria, BC, and Seattle with Rod Dixon a month and a half ago. He mentioned something about running up to 3-hours. So I asked him afterwards about the run and he said, "But it was only 12 miles, up and down some gruling hills!" He believes running up and down those hills in Nelson, NZ, is what made him a great runner--of course, he won a bronze medal in 1500m in 1972 and went on and won the NYC marathon in 1983.


                        Oh Mighty Wing

                          Nobby - I always enjoy and learn from your comments. My training partner used shot block thingies in the middle of our long runs (or at mile 5) for anything over well 5 miles. She thought they were great. I would taste them and feel like i put a spoonful of sugar in my mouth. And then finish the run with a stomach ache. Personally, I like food so much that I would rather save it for a time I can enjoy it!! As far as water that really depends on how i've been hydrating. Sunday I needed water at mile 3 (started obsessing about it at mile 2) of 6. But I knew I hadn't been drinking enough water the day before. Today I didn't need water at all and only had a little after and I went 7 and change. But yesterday and the night before (NYE) I drank tons o water. Oh and a thought to back up the food as practice... If you haven't raced before you might want to try some water on the go. Not necessarily because it can be awkward to grab, but mostly because if you take too much at a water station it may not sit well.
                            It's more time than distance. My 10 mile run yesterday took 3.5 hours!! (Of course, it was over the summits of two mountains through deep snow on trails) Over about 2 hours and I bring liquids. Over about 3 hours and I bring food and electrolytes. Over 12 hours and I bring a light. Tongue
                            Glad to see someone else with those ideas here.Smile (although I don't do too much in mtns in winter) Except I take my headlamp with me if leaving in afternoon for a short run these days. (about 5.5 hr between sunup and sundown; 7.5 of visible light right now) I'll take fluids and food if I drive to trailhead (usually 1.5+ hr run if I drive; 1-2 hr if on out-my-door trals) Winter on trails is no time to be testing low energy levels unless for survival training, imho. I saw your pic over in favorite run thread. Spent 5 yr in CO going to school (CSU), but not running - but fair amt of time in mtns (research, hiking, backpacking). Glad to see Nobby here also. [May be in process of abandoning CR also. Heck, I can't get logged in. So came wandering over here.]
                            "So many people get stuck in the routine of life that their dreams waste away. This is about living the dream." - Cave Dog


                            Young Gun

                              I've got a GREAT idea... Just do what feels GOOD. If you need to drink on a 6 mile run... DRINK If you're hungry... EAT Contrary to popular belief, running isn't rocket science... its just walking, only a little bit faster than normal. Wink In all seriousness.. I only bring water when I'm running 15+ miles unless its ridiculously hot and humid. I don't eat anything unless I'm running 20 or more. SJ

                              www.HumanPotentialRunning.com

                              123