Forums >General Running>So where have I heard this before???
Of everything you write, this is all I agree with. But the fallacy of all running coaches is that Newton's law of motion was based upon humans wearing shoes. Mother Nature doesn't wear shoes however, which means the perspective is highly limited. Case in point is Olympic skier Bode Miler. If you were a skiing coach you'd be telling me that proper position is to lean forward. Bode leans backwards. https://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/1194817096458/bode-miller-breaks-the-rules.html Given his Olympic speed history, my question is what principle of balance is he following if he's not leaning forward and pushing back as Newton's theories demand? And if it works to improve skiing speed, I can assure you that you're also unable to explain why it improves running speed.
Of everything you write, this is all I agree with.
But the fallacy of all running coaches is that Newton's law of motion was based upon humans wearing shoes. Mother Nature doesn't wear shoes however, which means the perspective is highly limited.
Case in point is Olympic skier Bode Miler. If you were a skiing coach you'd be telling me that proper position is to lean forward. Bode leans backwards.
https://www.nytimes.com/video/sports/1194817096458/bode-miller-breaks-the-rules.html
Given his Olympic speed history, my question is what principle of balance is he following if he's not leaning forward and pushing back as Newton's theories demand?
And if it works to improve skiing speed, I can assure you that you're also unable to explain why it improves running speed.
Newton's third law of motion applies 100% to this conversation. His third law does not just apply to mother nature. They can be on pogo sticks and Newton's third law would apply. You can be in a car collision with a building and Newton's third law would take center stage. You can't avoid it, so you have to explain it's role. For example, it helps explain why a runner is slower on a soft surface seeing as their is an absorption of force.
The entire video of Bode Miller gaining an advantage form his method of skiing are from a perspective of aerodynamics and friction. There are no biomechanical comparisons to foot fall with skiers in a fixed boot. He leans back slightly but not fully. Oddly enough, I can actually speak in depth on the topic of skiing as it was a huge part of my life when I was young. But, I don't see the relevance here. I do see the relevance however (odd it might seem) with your examples of an Ostrich or Horse.
There are no elite sprinters in the history of the sport that are sub 10 for men or sub 11 for women in the 100 meters that leaned backwards when they ran.
Public service announcement to the new (and new-ish) people: This is all there is. It never gets any better or more coherent than this.
Sport jester isn't some brilliant misunderstood genius. He's not a coach. He doesn't work with the Navy Seals and he's not re-writing the Army's APTF training manual. He's just a very odd dude who has no friends, is estranged from his family, and can't hold a job. He has on occasion gotten some unsuspecting people to take him seriously like a local news team--who due to the implosion of the local news business model, can't afford to fact check every special interest story--or some fitness blogger who used to be in the military. But it's all nonsense.
He has been trolling internet message boards like this for literally decades--at least as far back as Coolrunning. The "Kenyan women carrying cargo on their heads" anecdote is literally 20 years old. He shows up here every so often and tries to get people to "interact" with him until enough people call him out on his bullshit and he hurls insults at everyone then disappears for a while. Sometimes nobody takes the bait and his foray ends pretty quickly. Other times he gets one or two people to interact with him in good faith (like Nimmals and Otter have this time) and it take a little longer to run its course. But it always ends the same. I have no idea (nor do I want to know) what he does in the months when he's gone from here--maybe he's on some other corner oft he internet or maybe he's lurking in the fitness center at the Portland Marriott harassing people who are just trying to get a run in before they go to their business meeting.
Occasionally he runs into someone like Otter who actually knows what they're talking about. When they patiently ask questions and challenge his nonsense with facts and actual knowledge of how runners generate speed and power, he deflects to something completely unrelated like a former alpine ski racer having his center of mass over the tails of his skis when exiting turns--never mind the fact that his polyurethane boots lock the ski racer's ankle into a 12 degree forward lean or that he's riding on boards that are 165 to 215cm in length depending on discipline, or that his sport relies entirely on gravity to generate forward motion. The more nonsensical and unrelated the better. I've never understood the people who see such obvious trolling from a guy with the screen name "sport jester" (like, hellooo?) and think yeah I'm gonna argue in good faith with that guy because that's a good use of my time. But to each his own.
I've normally just taken the approach of ignoring him until he goes away but since srlopez isn't around to publish the normal fair warning, I figured I would jump in just in case there's anyone following this train wreck and unclear about what's going on. We've seen this movie many, many times. It always ends the same.
Runners run
Stotan Disciple
Hi everyone, I am a novice runner that looks on this site occasionally. I like the forums here a little better than let's run because it is usually more inviting. I have not felt an urge, to weigh in, in the past. Today, I can't help myself. You see, part what I do is breaking code, analyzing patterns, etc. After looking this, I am 95%-99% confident that Nimmals and sport jester are the same person. The writing pattern, the sequences, and the replies, make it obvious. I'm sorry if I am wrong, but, I am really good at what I do. The adimin should have a way to confirm this if they care... to which they probabaly don't. Unless, they are looking to get rid of the alter ego of Nimmals
Hi everyone,
I am a novice runner that looks on this site occasionally. I like the forums here a little better than let's run because it is usually more inviting.
I have not felt an urge, to weigh in, in the past. Today, I can't help myself. You see, part what I do is breaking code, analyzing patterns, etc. After looking this, I am 95%-99% confident that Nimmals and sport jester are the same person. The writing pattern, the sequences, and the replies, make it obvious. I'm sorry if I am wrong, but, I am really good at what I do. The adimin should have a way to confirm this if they care... to which they probabaly don't. Unless, they are looking to get rid of the alter ego of Nimmals
Yeah buddy you're a genius.
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
Thank you Mike. I appreciate your input.
I will stop playing as per your suggestion. Ultimately, I completely agree that he is an elaborate troll and I was unaware of his history here. I feel bad for him that this is how he gets his kicks. It sounds like a very lonely existence in the world and I hope he has the ability to wake up one day and turn his life around. If he is unable to due to mental illness, then I am truly sorry because it certainly looks like I have been trolling him.
My initial response to this thread had been due to the fact that I never liked mean people. I did not like the way he was addressing kind people here that have very good advice. My protective instincts go into full mode.
I might also disagree with other posters (...and I am not always right) but my aim is to try to teach and through positive and content driven dialogue I can also take the role of the student here learning from others that share the same passion as myself.
We didn’t start the Jester, he was always burning since RA’s been turning
We didn’t start the Jester, every time he writes it, someone tries to fight it
Masking tape, SEAL team 6, T-Rex, ostriches
Princess, concave trail,
Horses on treadmills
Kenyan women, cheetahs run, emus in the setting sun,
Heart rate, pygmies great,
Sandy Snakenburg
Mungo Park ‘rigonies, Rowing record (indoor please)
High incline, running far
Nike and Salazar
Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and roguesWe're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes
Biomimeticist
I couldn't find a more comical statement in my life....
Newton said that humans lean forward and push backwards. The extension of that reality was to ask if there were any athletes who leaned backwards and pulled forward. Because if they did or could, then it would open up a whole new paradigm of discussion athletic training.
Yes there are athletes who lean backward and pull their weight. That you don't know of them is because they were not only quicker than Usain Bolt in the 100 Meter sprint, but still accelerating, which of course was something Usain can't do. And of course Adidas would rather you be addicted to buying their products than actually learning the science of their technique.
The studies have already been documented in what academics call the backwards step in teaching a sprint start.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18438221
If you want to know how I can teach any runner to run 20% faster? Easy. While humans utilize the inverted pendulum to run, T-Rex wasn't that stupid. In fact their hunting skills were founded upon their ability to optimize the tendon elasticity application of utilizing the biology behind the backward step advantage not just to initiate optimum acceleration velocity, as humans are limited to, but with every step they took.
Experts said the world is flat
Experts said that man would never fly
Experts said we'd never go to the moon
Name me one of those "experts"...
History never remembers the name of experts; just the innovators who had the guts to challenge and prove the "experts" wrong
Thanks for the public announcement.
I admit I'm one of the guilty to counter the lack of knowledge of physics, kinesiology, genetics, and exercise physiology expressed by said individual, and thus prolong the narcissistic eruption. Previously, I even went so far as to make inquiries among coaches I know in Oregon. The ones familiar with the particular individual confirmed most of what you said.
I feel bad for people with mental/emotional difficulties, but I don't think we're required to indulge or suffer their episodes. I wish there were an "ignore" feature on this forum so I wouldn't rise to the bait again.
Public service announcement to the new (and new-ish) people: This is all there is. It never gets any better or more coherent than this. Sport jester isn't some brilliant misunderstood genius. He's not a coach. He doesn't work with the Navy Seals and he's not re-writing the Army's APTF training manual. He's just a very odd dude who has no friends, is estranged from his family, and can't hold a job. He has on occasion gotten some unsuspecting people to take him seriously like a local news team--who due to the implosion of the local news business model, can't afford to fact check every special interest story--or some fitness blogger who used to be in the military. But it's all nonsense. He has been trolling internet message boards like this for literally decades--at least as far back as Coolrunning. The "Kenyan women carrying cargo on their heads" anecdote is literally 20 years old. He shows up here every so often and tries to get people to "interact" with him until enough people call him out on his bullshit and he hurls insults at everyone then disappears for a while. Sometimes nobody takes the bait and his foray ends pretty quickly. Other times he gets one or two people to interact with him in good faith (like Nimmals and Otter have this time) and it take a little longer to run its course. But it always ends the same. I have no idea (nor do I want to know) what he does in the months when he's gone from here--maybe he's on some other corner oft he internet or maybe he's lurking in the fitness center at the Portland Marriott harassing people who are just trying to get a run in before they go to their business meeting. Occasionally he runs into someone like Otter who actually knows what they're talking about. When they patiently ask questions and challenge his nonsense with facts and actual knowledge of how runners generate speed and power, he deflects to something completely unrelated like a former alpine ski racer having his center of mass over the tails of his skis when exiting turns--never mind the fact that his polyurethane boots lock the ski racer's ankle into a 12 degree forward lean or that he's riding on boards that are 165 to 215cm in length depending on discipline, or that his sport relies entirely on gravity to generate forward motion. The more nonsensical and unrelated the better. I've never understood the people who see such obvious trolling from a guy with the screen name "sport jester" (like, hellooo?) and think yeah I'm gonna argue in good faith with that guy because that's a good use of my time. But to each his own. I've normally just taken the approach of ignoring him until he goes away but since srlopez isn't around to publish the normal fair warning, I figured I would jump in just in case there's anyone following this train wreck and unclear about what's going on. We've seen this movie many, many times. It always ends the same.
60-64 age group - University of Oregon alumni - Irreverent and Annoying
Thanks for the public announcement. I admit I'm one of the guilty to counter the lack of knowledge of physics, kinesiology, genetics, and exercise physiology expressed by said individual, and thus prolong the narcissistic eruption. Previously, I even went so far as to make inquiries among coaches I know in Oregon. The ones familiar with the particular individual confirmed most of what you said. I feel bad for people with mental/emotional difficulties, but I don't think we're required to indulge or suffer their episodes. I wish there were an "ignore" feature on this forum so I wouldn't rise to the bait again.
Isn't that a nice perspective of me...
To be honest Bill, you've failed the basic test of our exchanges. You claim to be an Alumni of the UofO, so why haven't you asked them to publicly test what I teach with any of their athletes? I mean what better way to shut me up, and yet they've never returned any outreach on my part.
Neither would Peter Either? I mean C'mon, the chance to prove me an idiot and not one of them has ever risen to the challenge.
As stated, I have a reporter from a national newspaper more than willing to document the teaching of any track runner to best any legitimate state or Division One School record. And nobody has ever contacted me to take me up on it?
Sorry Bill, but attacking me personally is getting old. I spent three years with Nike documenting for Salazar every word I write.
Its why I train our military elite up to and including the head of training for SEAL Team 6. I can readily prove that claim in a court of law with no problem.
Don't be so childish and attack me, attack my science. While you write I appear at random for you, it's because I've been in a continuous relationship with people in the military who wouldn't waste their time with you or what you think of me. Funny, because you've never even asked me to send you any one of my recent e-mails as proof to my claims? I mean how many e-mails do you have in your inbox generated from a .mil server?
If you want to discredit me, then why don't you call the director of Athletics of the UofO and ask to have my claims tested publicly by their program. I surely won't turn down the challenge.
Oh is it time for another season of sportjester? But wait, this looks like a rerun. Aren’t there any new episodes?
3 months til Masters
Yes it would make total sense to let someone who is an engineer who can demonstrate that since gravity is a weak force on the subatomic level, who knows reason this Ferrari isn't going 500 mph is the driver is swinging wide before diving into corners, give him Ferrari's entire formula 1 program over to him.
They are not going to let you have a potential world class athlete to a guy who (for now) is on the fringe. Maybe take a 17 min 5k person (there are dozens in any decent size city) to a 15 min 5k and we will talk. Surely you can talk one above average (compared to average population) into a sub elite runner by making them 20% faster.
Just do it once. Not even a 20% increase. If you taking them to 13:40, Oregon, Portland, and NAU will beat your door down. Get it written into your next military contract to let you train one to be subelinte...
Isn't that a nice perspective of me... To be honest Bill, you've failed the basic test of our exchanges. You claim to be an Alumni of the UofO, so why haven't you asked them to publicly test what I teach with any of their athletes? I mean what better way to shut me up, and yet they've never returned any outreach on my part. Neither would Peter Either? I mean C'mon, the chance to prove me an idiot and not one of them has ever risen to the challenge. As stated, I have a reporter from a national newspaper more than willing to document the teaching of any track runner to best any legitimate state or Division One School record. And nobody has ever contacted me to take me up on it? Sorry Bill, but attacking me personally is getting old. I spent three years with Nike documenting for Salazar every word I write. Its why I train our military elite up to and including the head of training for SEAL Team 6. I can readily prove that claim in a court of law with no problem. Don't be so childish and attack me, attack my science. While you write I appear at random for you, it's because I've been in a continuous relationship with people in the military who wouldn't waste their time with you or what you think of me. Funny, because you've never even asked me to send you any one of my recent e-mails as proof to my claims? I mean how many e-mails do you have in your inbox generated from a .mil server? If you want to discredit me, then why don't you call the director of Athletics of the UofO and ask to have my claims tested publicly by their program. I surely won't turn down the challenge.
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Ok, this is pertinent:
Interval Junkie --Nobby
Wait, SJ is Trump? I thought he was Niminals
2021 Goals: 50mpw 'cause there's nothing else to do
Surly Bill I don't think he has narcissistic tendency. If you read the article there is a deeper complexity, narcissistic is superficial.
He tries to think out the box and people that do that always are rejected by society even if I disagree with him, Im willing to hear him out and some of what he said makes sense. As Otter said some of the great coaches like Lydiard and Cerutty studied animal movements.
One of the articles said he was bullied as a kid and had to go to a different school, I've worked with Autistic kids and a runner with aspergers and the kid with Aspegers did his PHD, he ran a 2:24 marathon too his first and lasts. And he had very unconventional ways or thoughts on how to treat traumatic brain injuries. He got his PHD based on his thoughts. So because they're issues with communicating doesn't mean they're necessarily narcissistic and self absorbed they just think and process differently.
I did a lot of work with special needs kids and if you understand the issue you show empathy. you guys all like to pile on and attack then claim to be nothing like lets run when you definitely are. Why can't the more mature and intelligent not take the bait? Ok we know what the issue is here and so we ignore. Otter and I had no idea who he was so we kept talking I still don't mind talking to him if you have nothing to offer other than attacking him back ignore. He doesn't rankle me in the least. I had one kid attack me was i to fight back when I knew he processes differently, I had to bear hug him hold him and coo to calm him his parents taught me how to handle his aggression if you know you know how to deal with him behaving the same way and piling on is senseless.
He started the thread its his thread respect the man and he will respect you he has not attacked me and i did not attack him I'm genuinely interested in what he has to say. I understand how he processes things and its different from you and I. I'm not interested in walking. I'm interested in running let him tell us how to run more efficiently I'll decide if to process or throw out.
Asperger syndrome (AS), also known as Asperger's, is a developmental disorder characterised by significant difficulties in social interaction and nonverbal communication, along with restricted and repetitive patterns of behavior and interests.
I said I would not come back but here I am.
One of the things I love about the internet is that we can all get together on an idea and discuss it from our own perspective that would not have been possible before.
The thing I don't like about it is the human connection is stripped away. Those that normally have difficulty discussing topics face to face are even more isolated when discussing topics through a computer.
There are positives though. For myself , the topic got me to crack open my Ralph Mann book which I would recommend to anyone here that likes to study human movement. If someone buys the book then that is a feather in sportjester's cap.
As Nimmals suggested whether intentional or not there is that prove me wrong and you will learn something approach by sportjester that was underlying the banter. I have seen that done before and find it fascinating. All of the sudden people are researching studies, looking for sources of information, and thinking about the topic on their levels and making the kind of growth that can only come from that.
I have a story. I think this is a Lydiard story and not a Cerutty one. I don't know, I don't have the time to look it up but they had a similar method of provoking learning. He told his students, "Why stretch? Rabbits don't stretch before they run!" One of his students observed a rabbit in the wild and watched it stretch dynamically by leaning back and extending it's front legs before bolting off. Excited, he came back to tell him. He already knew they did that. His whole purpose was to motivate the students instincts to kill the teacher and learn from it. That was a wow moment for me when I read about that.
I don't think that was going on here but the effect was the same. His last post although also riddled with insults makes me wonder if this was what he was trying to do. If sportjester could control his insults towards others he could actually insight dialogue and learning on a level none of us can.
So, that would be my challenge to you sportjester if you are reading this. You can still keep the conversation as content driven and mind provoking without the insults and you will insight greatness that will push everyone including yourself to learn more.
My initial response was to defend others here and that continued throughout but then I like going through my stuff to attempt to prove my point. I tend to forget information if I am not using it so it's refreshing to relearn things and hopefully commit it to long term memory.
And now research has discovered that static stretching is actually unneeded and sometimes counterproductive to performance.
New things are discovered all the time. A scientific mind is able to accept changes when presented with compelling information; usually empirical.
I agree with otter1; in my first encounter with the particular individual, I found and read a bunch of old studies, and new ones. I wouldn't have done it otherwise. I was intrigued, like nimmals on this thread. Then it got deeper, I got suspicious, I explored their own claims of being an important figure in the running world, particularly Portland OR. The result was a sad story of someone wanting to be "famous and respected" but actually just becoming a laughing stock.
There must be more productive avenues for a person with such high intelligence. But even people with MENSA IQs can have mental/emotional issues that prevent them from functioning very well in society. If they have a great idea, no one is going to believe them because they don't know how to communicate well enough to explain or demonstrate it, and get frustrated as a result. And then the lashing out, which just drives people further away, and creates enemies.