Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2018
I've signed up for a 3K this Sunday Oct14th, it should be fun!
Oh man. Let me know how this goes. What is your strategy going to be? Maybe go 5K pace for the first mile, than the remainder absolutely all out? Embrace that pain! You'll be happy you did!
Thanks for all the feedback guys. I honestly don't think I would have been motivated this year to run if I didn't see all the great performances and times from everyone here. Such a blessing to read and absorb the posts from all the dedicated runners here - it helps me stick with it.
Flavio - A 3k should be about the same as when we did the feared Cooper's test in high school (run as far as you can in 12 minutes). I usually ended up somewhere very close to 8 laps on most of my tests, and I remember the laps going something like this:
Laps 1 and 2: Open a hair too fast but it's ok because it feels easy (usually right under 1:30 per lap)
Laps 3 and 4: Wonder why I opened too fast, work really hard to keep the pace up
Laps 5 and 6: This was a really bad idea. Pace falls of by a couple of seconds per lap
Lap 7: I think I'm going to die
Lap 8: I have no memory of those
Thinking back to those tests I wonder if I was willing to run with a lot more pain then than now....
5k: 20:32 (1/17) | HM: 1:34:37 (2/18) | FM: 3:31:37 (3/18)
Getting back into it
Cobra Commander Keen
I'm a bit sore today. My quads were sore to the touch Saturday after the race (but not while running or walking), and starting last night my abs are sore. That race was clearly harder on me than I thought. I've looked a bit and can't find anything other than 5k races coming up (which don't fit well with the schedule), so I'm a bit bummed that I'm not going to have a good race predictor going in to my goal marathon.
Flavio - A 3k sounds fun and interesting. I'd certainly never see one of those around here.
JMac - Any specific goals for the HM this weekend?
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
RIP Milkman
Weather looks perfect (upper 40's / low 50's). I haven't really done any work at true MP, as all my work so far has been in the disgusting weather this summer. I want to give it a go at my attempted MP, which would mean trying to break 1:25. If I feel great after 12 miles, I may pick it up to tempo pace for the last mile, so it would more like 4E + 12M + 1T type of workout. If not, just try to hold on for the sub 1:25.
Regarding your fitness, it's a bummer. I ran into the same thing last year. I ran the same 10 miler last year as I did this year, except it was literally a record high that day of 91 degrees in late September. So I effectively got nothing out of it in terms of giving me an idea of my fitness. Instead, I just used my tempo work during my last true weeks of training to determine that I was probably in sub 3 shape, so I went out at 2:57 or so pace and just went from there. Based on what I've seen from you so far, I think you're right on the border of sub 3, one of those days where everything would have to go right, but could get done.
You can't find any 10ks? Those at least give you a better idea of fitness. 5Ks are basically useless. If you can't find anything longer, I'd recommend doing what I'm doing this weekend, except just in workout form. If you can hold MP for 13-14 miles at the end of your usual 75 mile weeks, it's a good indication that you can hold it for the full 26.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
If you can hold MP for 13-14 miles at the end of your usual 75 mile weeks, it's a good indication that you can hold it for the full 26.
This scares me a bit . I do run much less though, it came at the end of a slightly light week, and I had to take a bathroom break halfway through, but when I ran the Giant HM a month ago I kept 7:19 pace for 11 miles and did a 2.2 mile tempo pace at the end, and that felt fine. That's basically a pace for 3:12 finish time. Right now I can't imagine aiming faster than 3:15, and will probably go with the 3:20 pacer. But maybe my legs will feel amazing once the race comes around and all that conservatism gets flushed down the drain
JMac - 10ks really aren't that popular around here. I did widen my search and the closest 10k is this weekend about an hour away. I can't find a course map (USATF has a certification on file), no Strava segment, no race reports... The only thing I can find are race results from 5+ years ago - the fastest time being 41x. It should be flat, knowing the area it's in. I would have to miss DD1s soccer game, though, which would make 2 in a row.
In 3 weeks I have 15 mi (24k) at M pace scheduled for my LR. I'm just not sure what pace I should really run that at. I've thought about 7 min/mi (4:21/km), largely because it's a nice, round number and I think it would be within the realm of possibility. I'm otherwise thinking about 20s the next two weekends - the local running club has one scheduled this weekend (15 on tap for me), and next week I have one scheduled.
Keen - The way I see it you can run that m-pace workout in a couple of ways (and I know which one JMac prefers). You can either run it at "goal" m-pace and really get a good feel for how you hold up. I find it very informative because I know what my HR should be at when racing the marathon, so I can see how close I am there. I don't need to be right on target in the middle of a hard training period but should be reasonably close. I'm pretty sure this is what JMac would prefer as well as you get some really good practice running at your race pace.
The other option would be to run it according to Jack Daniels' m-pace, which is usually a bit faster. It will be a harder workout, maybe brutally so, and it might even be too hard. In the race I just mentioned I ended up doing this type of workout, at the JD m-pace, and it worked out ok for me. Maybe I'm in better shape than I think? I'm not sure.
Rune - hehe... The M pace for this workout would be brutal to me - it's after the second VDOT bump of the cycle (today was the first workout with the increased paces), which puts JD's M pace at a whopping 5 sec/mi (3.1 sec/km) faster than my HM PR pace! Granted, I'm certainly in better shape than I was in April, the ~60F/15.5C from that race now feels nice and cool rather than super-hot (temps will likely be less than that for this workout), and I'll be doing this run on flats rather than rolling hills, but that's just really intimidating. Oh, and the training run would certainly be done either self-supported or I'd stop for water, so that's a point against it.
On second thought, I might be able to make that 10k. We're forecasted to get a bunch of rain all week, so there's the possibility that DD1's soccer game might be rained out. If that happens I could probably run it. On the flipside, my second workout of the week is currently scheduled for Friday, so for the 10k to count for anything I'd probably need to just do an easy run that day...
Yeah I would not recommend JD's M pace. I think that his only works for highly trained athletes that are consistent across all times. To me, that means running 90+ MPW on a consistent basis while training for a marathon. I personally find that (HM)*2.15 to be the correct marathon pace, which is pretty close to MP+10 minutes. I've also emphasized I don't think his VDOT bumps up make sense because you may be progressing at different levels than others.
It's amazing what a taper and race day can do. I find running a HM at MP to be very difficult in the middle of training, but obviously pretty easy on race day. It's the same thing with HMP, or tempos. Can you imagine trying to do the pace you do for Jack Daniels tempo runs for more than 4 miles in a row? No? I can't either. But I ran a race 2 weeks ago where I did it for the full 60 minutes like I'm supposed to.
Keen - a 10K is definitely a workout, so no shame in running a race day instead. You'll get some good LT benefits from the race. JD recommends moving your workout from the weekend to the middle of the following week instead, while just cancelling your mid week run. I think he views this as your Sat/Sun runs being more important than your 2nd quality day on Wed/Thur. Near you (I think), I see the following race, is this it?
https://www.active.com/watonga-ok/running/distance-running-races/great-rat-race-and-charlotte-sawyer-memorial-2018
Regarding 15 at MP, that sounds rough but doable. I really think you should have "support" on that run. You're certainly going to If you can't find a longer race to sign up for, maybe ask either DW or DD1 to provide help in some way regarding water/gatorade. I like having my wife bike beside me with water and gatorade ready. We can only talk for about the first 1/2 of the run before I get too tired, but it's nice to get out and have her participate in such an important part of my daily routine. It's also obviously exercise for her too since she needs to bike 15 miles! So we both enjoy it.
Wow this thread is moving fast!
Flavio, Piwi: thanks on the arm movement topic. I will pump really hard during those last couple of meters going forward
Keen: do not miss her match
Jmac: good luck with the race!!!
HM: 1:47 (9/20) I FM: 3:53:11 (9/23)
2024 Goals: run a FM & HM + stay healthy!
JMac - Yeah, that's the one. It's odd that there's so little info out there about this race other than that it's happening. That 10k would certainly be a workout - I'd basically need to run it or faster than current T pace to be indicative of sub-3. I've done that before, though. Unfortunately the most support I could get during that run would be to set out a water bottle or two at various points in the course and grab them as I go by, or perhaps just carry a handheld.
Mick - I have no intentions of missing the match! The race is just a possibility if it's rained out - and given the ~62 miles/100k between the two locations in question, it's certainly possible to get rain in one and not the other.
Temps for my runs tomorrow and Thursday should be ~46F/7.7C! That'll be the coldest since probably late March/early April!
Keen - It's so weird, I feel like OKC has the same weather as NY. I always imagined you guys as much hotter though. We are about to see our first sub 50 temps this Saturday, so it makes sense you'll be seeing them a bit sooner.
Jmac thanks for the 200s advice. Makes sense to do the shorter ones while my endurance is low and then after a few more good weeks hit the longer intervals.
Mark yeah I would carry a gel in a half just incase I need a mental boost. I think Rune struggles with GI issues etc and has noticed a bad side effect from them.
Bro stick around here so we can get to know you better and help you with your training.
Keen my oldest son did soccer from age 5-15 with rep stuff so it was often 3 times per week with training and lots of travelling. Luckily I wasnt a runner then.
I still havent found a full replay of Chicago. Waiting for someone to stick it on youtube.
Had a nice rest day yesterday and a good tempo today.
55+ PBs 5k 18:36 June 3rd TT
" If you don't use it you lose it, but if you use it, it wears out.
Somewhere in between is about right "
Piwi, Mark - Yes, I have some GI issues to deal with, but the weird thing is the only thing I can point to here is that my performance seems to decrease when I take the gels before or during these harder efforts. It's not like my stomach is cramping or making me go to the bathroom when I take a gel, my performance just declines. I should probably talk to my doctor about this to see if I can figure out what's going on. I will definitely NOT take a gel before my workout tomorrow, which includes both tempo and m-pace (ETMETME), 13 miles total.
And Piwi, if I remember I will take a couple of pictures of the pages on Reps in the JD book tonight.
JMac - I like that idea of having bike support on the long hard m-pace runs. I might try to hire my kids to help out with that next time .
I am now 8 weeks out from my Marathon attempt and want to know if you guys think a < 3:24:59 is possible for me.
Not sure if any of this will be of use but here is some data on my running from May through Sept.
race will be flat with minimal elevation change (+/- 15 to 20 ft)
Temps should be in the 60's
I know I still have some work to do over these next several weeks but looking for some feedback...
PR's
1m 5:38 (2018)
5k 19:59 (2019)
HM 1:33:56 (2018)
FM 3:23:07 (2018)