Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
RIP Milkman
JT - I got this from RunnersConnect, take it as you see fit. This is often why you rarely see the longest run in a true program (besides beginners) being prescribed 3-4 weeks out. Often, your longest run is 6-8 weeks out.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Caught a mild strain on the left hamstring Saturday in the first mile of my last long run. Felt a little tightness during my Friday shakeout. Felt ok during warm up drills Saturday, then it got progressively tighter into a sharp pain fairly quickly. Going to try some easy miles tomorrow. Still 6 days out, hoping for the best. At this point, I would be grateful to just complete the race (my wife is running so probably not coming back anytime soon). Keeping positive!
Madison - Hope you heal up quickly.
Mother of Cats
Darkwave That's really interesting i use my carbons for speed and slug runs shoes don't matter. if it ain't a race I'm going slow. .... JMAC I feel you on the pain either I'm doing to much or I'm an idiot. (You all better not answer that ) Every year I ramp up my mileage I get extensor tendinitis my foot has been bothering me since middle of last week. Whenever i run 100 mile weeks, I try to add running on grass along BikePath to reduce the stress but grass is my kryptonite. I pulled my hamstring on grass and it flares up my extensor tendinitis but every time I think more runs on grass will give me longevity in the sport but injure me in the short term. Talk about a catch 22.
Darkwave That's really interesting i use my carbons for speed and slug runs shoes don't matter. if it ain't a race I'm going slow.
....
JMAC I feel you on the pain either I'm doing to much or I'm an idiot. (You all better not answer that ) Every year I ramp up my mileage I get extensor tendinitis my foot has been bothering me since middle of last week. Whenever i run 100 mile weeks, I try to add running on grass along BikePath to reduce the stress but grass is my kryptonite. I pulled my hamstring on grass and it flares up my extensor tendinitis but every time I think more runs on grass will give me longevity in the sport but injure me in the short term. Talk about a catch 22.
Yeah, because of my bad ankles, I really can't wear anything with a high stack height or a lot of cushioning for very long - just too much strain on a weak area. I only wear the VF and similar for racing, and when I do I tape my ankles up for stability.
Interestingly, the paces I hit doing workouts in the Adios correlate pretty well to what I hit on race day in the VF.
I also find that running on grass or anything softer than asphalt gives me tendonitis - for the same reason: the softer the surface, the less stable, and the more stress on my soft tissue.
Weather - kudos, of both the Strava and non-Strava kind, on holding back for the easy runs.
Jayluf - I mentioned this on Strava: have you looked into Voodoo flossing? (google Kelly Starrett, voodoo floss, and hamstring). That has worked wonders for me with muscle strains. If the strain is in the belly of the hammy, you might be able to pull this off (unfortunately, high hamstring stuff at the sit bone is harder to manage)
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
DW - Sorry! Saw that comment after I’d had a few beers Saturday and forgot to look it up. I’ve got a few cryo sessions before my red eye tomorrow night. The injured area is in the belly of the hammy - though this mornings easy run wasn’t encouraging. I’ll check out the voodoo flossing though - thank you for the rec!
Jayluf: Happy and Safe Travels! At least the hammy shouldn't interfere with Oktoberfest
Hearing others .. one reason why I run with music. When I ran San Fran Half - I ran without my ipod as I left it at home because I was planning on doing a 5k. Then I ended up doing the half. Seriously two times I just stopped in my tracks to let people go on ahead because one time their strides were so loud and clunking (and long) and another time someone's breathing was so loud and fast. Both of these were annoying and distracting - they were like affecting my perceived effort it almost seemed. I know people can't help it and I know I'm probably annoying in ways as well. But this is one reason why I run with music. Then I can tune it all out.
JMac: on your comment to Weather. And re: your long run - still a decent pace and distance regardless - not a wasted workout!
M: 9.2 mi (8:17) T: 10.5 mi w/5 mi of 4 min on, 1 min off, 1 min on, 3 min off W: 7 mi (9:30) T: 7 mi (8:45) F: 8.75 mi(8:01) with a few strides to try and get the legs feeling better (?) S: 8.1 mi (8:20) S: w/u, HM (1:29:3x/6:50), c/d
65 mi
Legs felt like complete shit all week for absolutely no real reason. I hardly ran the week prior (20-25 miles) due to too much going on so it’s not like I went into the week with miles on my legs. Must be stress. Cannot underestimate what that can do, I say. Anyways, Saturday night I was thinking how annoyed I was - fatigued/sluggish or whatever - so I thought I would give the legs a reason to feel that way and decided to run a half Sunday. Drove a couple hours to the race Sunday morning, registered, then was leaving the portapotty when the gun went off so I started with the back of the pack and it took about a minute or so to get through it. It was hilly – more elevation change than San Francisco half. It was raining, fair amount of turns, then some cinders. Nice enough course though. Legs still felt like crap but at least now there was a reason! 2nd Female (1st was 30 yo). Had a couple free Dead Guy Ales post race - so I thought I would update my pic
Hearing others .. one reason why I run with music. When I ran San Fran Half - I ran without my ipod as I left it at home because I was planning on doing a 5k. Then I ended up doing the half. Seriously two times I just stopped in my tracks to let people go on ahead because one time their strides were so loud and clunking (and long) and another time someone's breathing was so loud and fast. Both of these were annoying and distracting - they were like affecting my perceived effort it almost seemed. I know people can't help it and I know I'm probably annoying in ways as well. But this is one reason why I run with music. Then I can tune in at all out.
The single most annoying thing I ever struck in a race was a guy running about 2 metres behind me with coins jingling in his pocket. To make it worse, the race was mostly along trails and rural roads so it was mostly really quiet. It's like he was purely carrying them to annoy everyone.
He faded after about 3km but I swear that was the longest 3km I've ever run. I seriously wanted to grab those coins off him and fling them in the ditch.
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
The single most annoying thing I ever struck in a race was a guy running about 2 metres behind me with coins jingling in his pocket. To make it worse, the race was mostly along trails and rural roads so it was mostly really quiet. It's like he was purely carrying them to annoy everyone. He faded after about 3km but I swear that was the longest 3km I've ever run. I seriously wanted to grab those coins off him and fling them in the ditch.
Coins? What the heck. I could see keys might be necessary. But yeah.
Swim: is he on Strava? Anyone know if he's ok??
jayluf - the issues so close to the marathon, but, to tell the truth, I would just forget about the result and enjoy the whole experience there. I was almost ready to run Berlin few years ago, registered and paid the fee but then my whole family expressed a desire to go (4 people) there and I have to stay home - kind of cheap, but better be cheap than broke...
DW - I wish I were in a shape you are in I remember you were in 3:20 group and now I have to chase and probably will never catch up
madison - certainly bad news but surprisingly I am with the crowd - skip the nearest marathon, seriously, how you can even think about it - plenty of time till CIM - heal and get in the best shape.
JTR - great decision in skipping the LR - I would probably take day off but certainly do not know how bad you felt
JMac - I tried Daniels workouts few time but never actually were able to run E pace as prescribed - certainly 30 secs slower than T pace was way too fast for me
Nimmals - "like someone was murdering him in his sleep" - maaan... I almost spilled my tea - your comparison is way too close to real life
weatherboy - wow! great week!
Done with the first week of the training plan. Totally forgot how it feels to run on tired legs. No surprises so far - I am not a fast kid for sure Had to cut Saturdays run a little short - felt way too tired.
Mon - off
Tue - 10.2 @GA (8:30)
Wed - 10.2 @16mins@LT(6:35)-4mins@recovery-13mins@LT(6:55)
Thu - 12.5 @endurance (8:13)
Fri - 6.5 @recovery (9:50)
Sat - 8.2 @GA with 2 sets of 6x100 strides (8:42)
Sun - 17.1 @endurance (8:15)
Total: 64.8 mi
paces PRs - 5K - 5:48 / 10K - 6:05 / HM - 6:14 / FM - 6:26 per mile
Cinnamon - I listen to music on all of my runs but I totally get listening during races. I'm so sensitive to noises in general. I also love the new avatar!
Cal - looks like you're doing LT work this cycle?
Yeah, If you look at HR I was running at, you can definitely call it LT. From all the other angles it’s just total crap. But I signed up to work with that crap for the next 11 weeks 🥺 Will try to be an optimist this cycle for a change.
1:39 or faster got you into Boston - looks like I’m out this year. The training continues.
Quick update: been injured most of the summer but coming back slowly.
Sorry to hear about others’ injuries, not a good time
3K: 8:29.12 (2017) 5K: 14:56.59 (2016) 8K: 25:27 (2016) 15K: 53:46 (2022) HM: 75:41 (2022) FM: 2:43:17 (2022)
JMac: Thanks for posting the RunnersConnect table. Not sure I really buy that it takes so long for effects of a quality long run to materialize... 4-6 weeks for a long run, yet 1-2 weeks for threshold work?
Cinnamon: Nice job on the spontaneous half! Stress definitely can knock you out running-wise; I have been experiencing that several times this cycle.
I never listen to music when running outside, just never had any reason to. I like to fully absorb the nature around me with all senses. Plus it's probably dangerous in my case to not have full hearing engagement as I often encounter bears on my morning runs . I do always have TV and/or music blasting when on the treadmill.
Marky: What a turkey that guy was to have change in his pockets while racing! And if he was up with you he wasn't exactly a hobbyjogger, so little excuse for that...
Cal: I like the look of that week! But you don't sound too thrilled about following a plan...I will see how you manage it and might try Pfitz next time around.
MMC: Glad the injury issues are fading. There are plenty of non-Boston options for a spring marathon.
Jayluf: Hope that strain heals up in time for Berlin. But even if you can't race it, it should be a great experience. Looking forward to watching, just set up the DVR to record it!
2:52:16 (2018)
JT - I took a look at Pfitz’s plan to confirm. He has his longest run, depending on the program, 6-8 weeks out. I think the idea is that they’re all targeting different systems. Speed develops quickly because you are developing the neurological system. Long runs are around capillary and mitochondria development, which is much longer. Here is a link to the article if you’re interested, but in general, I haven’t found anything for an advanced plan that advocates your longest run 3 weeks out. At best, I think you would reach your peak long run 8 weeks out, and then just maintain that. I may be wrong, but I believe you’ve missed a few weeks and running 22 may be tough.
Of course, would love to hear from others.
https://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/how-long-before-you-benefit-from-a-workout/
JMac - I also checked Pfitz’s 18/85 plan and yes, he has the longest LR 24 miles 7 weeks out but he also has 22 miler 3 weeks out - 22 and 24 miles look equally very long to me 😁 And yes, I remember when I was doing Pfitz’s plans the longest (or at least very long one) was always 3 weeks out.
JTR - I am totally fine with the plan - I used similar one for my life PR marathon. I am just not thrilled with what I am capable to do with it right now - I was like 70-90 secs (per mile) slower for my LT session today comparing to what I was able to do in 2015 for the same workout. But I will try to stick with the plan regardless as I have big plans for year 2021.
JMac: I guess it's good that I never followed a plan! I've been doing 20-22 for my LR the majority of weeks in this cycle. That's just how I like to do it; I feel like I get a lot out of the LR, even though most are at an easy pace. And doing one more of 20-22 won't be difficult if I keep it easy, and won't take a lot out of me for the same reason. Again, it would be for maintenance of fitness, not for making additional gains. I like the Pfitz plan from what I've read of it and seen from those who follow it here, but one thing I would change (if I did actually follow it) would be to keep the LRs more consistently at a longer distance. To each his/her own...