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20 miler (Read 932 times)

Kimmie


    Hey- Just have to post that my 20 miler went very well yesterday. I took the time to get up early enough to have a little coffee, toast, water, and stretch and I think that made a huge difference. I have been literally waking up and running 15 minutes later... not good. I was so happy that my first 20 miler this training cycle went so well. I'm gearing up for the MCM in oct. I was also able to speed it up at the end. We were averaging about a 9:15/9:30 pace ( felt relatively easy) and then the last two miles were in the 7:45 range. I'm not sure if I was supposed to do that or not. What do you guys think? I just wanted to see what I had left and see if I could speed up. My goal for MCM is a 3:45. This long run took 3:08, but I don't stop my watch for things like crossing intersections, and getting water. So, maybe this goal is doable. Thanks for letting me share.


    Dave

      Kimmie, I think you're doing great! Mostly because your description of your 20 is so frighteningly similar to my 19 today. (check my log). I've read a number of articles on the fast finish long run and it sounds like you executed it to perfection. I also got up earlier, had some coffee and a bagel, and then out the door. Better hydration and some gels made a big difference. As far as goal pace, I was also thinking 3:45 but McMillan puts me closer to 3:35. My plan is to go out at 3:45 pace and then try and get another 5-10 minutes out of the last 8 miles if I'm still feeling good. My overall pace today was 8:54 and like you I ran mostly in the low 9's to start out. 8:54 translates to a 3:53 marathon so I'm feeling like 3:45 is certainly doable and maybe even a bit faster.

      I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

      dgb2n@yahoo.com

      Kimmie


        Oh my gosh Dave. We did have a similar run, although it looks like you are faster than me. I wonder if we could run together and keep each other on pace through mile 20 and then go faster from there if we can. I do think I'll run with the pacer and I know the crowds are tough, but if you're willing to try to stick together we could talk about it via email or here. I have a friend that will be running too and I'm not sure what her goal is going to be. How did you get the McMillan time? Is that from your long run or from a race? I'm going to run the Parks Half Marathon and use that as another chance to set the goal for MCM. what long runs are next for you? Sorry for so many questions... Smile I guess I'm still excited.


        Dave

          I've got a couple of data points that I fed into McMillan. One from my HM back in March (1:44) and I did a 5K on Saturday (not an official one, just me and the Garmin). Both point to something around 3:35 but I'm not that confident in my shorter distance efforts translating into a full. I intend to really push it at the Army 10 miler and see how well it goes. I've got a couple of 20's coming up but I'm flexible. My email is in my signature.

          I ran a mile and I liked it, liked it, liked it.

          dgb2n@yahoo.com

          Jayr


            I also believe you will more than likely smash 3:45; especially if you keep posting those 50 mile weeks.. Easy does it, then cut r loose... Looks to me like you are doing great also. Good luck! j.
              That's a really nice long run. I'm a big fan of the fast finish long run. The fact you were able to drop your pace by that much means you had plenty left in the tank--good. I think you've got a great shot at 3:45 if you don't go out too fast.

              Runners run

              Kimmie


                Thanks everyone. It's weird how your training can go up and down. I'm now battling a sinus infection and struggled to run hills today. I hope I didn't over do it on Saturday.
                kcam


                  That long run should give you huge confidence. To knock out the last couple of miles at 7:45 after running 17 or 18 at 9:15 is very impressive. Keep up the good work.
                    Pfitz reccomends that you start your long runs slow(er), like 90 secs slower than marathon pace and gradually speed up till you're running 45 seconds slower than MP at the end. I've also read several articles in runners world that preach the strong finish at the end of long runs; it stimulates your body to adapt more than a steady pace, and to learn to speed up and push through pain at the end - if this is mental or physical I have no idea. Probably both! In the last 6 miles or so of my long runs I try to build from MP+20secs to MP so I finish strong. Its hard and draining, but I'm really seeing results! I also find that speeding up actually makes the running a little easier initially as you start to use different muscles and maintain better form. My 2 cents. Smile Good luck in the final 5-6 weeks or so of your plans. The end is in sight!


                    Chair Warmer

                      Pfitz reccomends that you start your long runs slow(er), like 90 secs slower than marathon pace and gradually speed up till you're running 45 seconds slower than MP at the end.
                      I, too, am targeting a 3:45 marathon but I have been running my long runs about 60-90 seconds slower than goal pace. Is there a benefit to running a bit faster during the long runs (say at the 9:15 pace Kimmie mentioned) and then way under marathon pace for the last few miles? Does this open the door to injury? McMillan has me anywhere between 8:37 and 10:29 for my long runs depending on if I plug in my 10K time or marathon time.
                        I, too, am targeting a 3:45 marathon but I have been running my long runs about 60-90 seconds slower than goal pace. Is there a benefit to running a bit faster during the long runs (say at the 9:15 pace Kimmie mentioned) and then way under marathon pace for the last few miles? Does this open the door to injury? McMillan has me anywhere between 8:37 and 10:29 for my long runs depending on if I plug in my 10K time or marathon time.
                        Kimmie


                          This is a constant debate in my running group. Some adhere very closely to running 60-09 seconds slower than MP... others seem to need to run fast every time. I've decided to try to run by feel. That means, if I feel like I'm struggling than I slow down. And i need to be able to easily converse the whole time. On this run, I started out a little fast with a few other people. We were talking but I could tell that I wouldn't be able to hold that pace for too long. And I now think that speeding up that much at the end of the 20 was a mistake. I felt fine afterwards for a few hours and then the sinus headache hit me bad. So, I may have over done it. Net weekend, I will go out slow and try progression running.
                            I see no reason to run that slowly on most long runs. I'll occasionally do a whole long that winds up maybe 60 seconds slower than MP, but never 90. And I do a lot of long runs with significant sections at or sometimes faster than MP. If I'm donig a big progression run it's not uncommon for me to finish with a mile or two at or faster than half marathon pace. The overall average for some of these will end up 20-30 seconds slower than MP, sometimes faster Your long runs are your most race-specific workouts if you're training for a marathon.

                            Runners run

                              I, too, am targeting a 3:45 marathon but I have been running my long runs about 60-90 seconds slower than goal pace. Is there a benefit to running a bit faster during the long runs (say at the 9:15 pace Kimmie mentioned) and then way under marathon pace for the last few miles? Does this open the door to injury? McMillan has me anywhere between 8:37 and 10:29 for my long runs depending on if I plug in my 10K time or marathon time.
                              McMillan has an article in running times that talks about some variations on the long run. A fast finish is among them -- recommended only once or twice because of potential for injury. On the other hand, you have a big disconnect between your 10k and marathon time, assuming the 10k is faster, which suggests you need the easy miles to build endurance a lot more than you need the fast finish.


                              Chair Warmer

                                McMillan has an article in running times that talks about some variations on the long run. A fast finish is among them -- recommended only once or twice because of potential for injury. On the other hand, you have a big disconnect between your 10k and marathon time, assuming the 10k is faster, which suggests you need the easy miles to build endurance a lot more than you need the fast finish.
                                I think endurance is the issue... I just didn't have the legs the last 4-6 miles of the marathon in June (8:59/mile). On the other hand, I could certainly have run the 10K faster than I did several weeks ago(7:17/mile). I think I will continue to keep the long runs slow and only pick it up the last few miles if feeling OK (and then no faster than MP). I have been having some knee issues and just don't want to risk injury prior to the Twin Cities Marathon Oct 5th. Thanks for the advice... I realize that this is not an exact science but it's nice to hear what others are doing.
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