2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread (Read 343 times)

mattw4jc


    For some reason while reading here this week I keep glancing up at the web address bar to make sure I'm not on letsrun.com.

     

    Carry on!

    Andres1045


       

      This morning I told my wife about this guy on my strava who ran at 2:47am this morning because he had to leave at an already ungodly hour to catch a flight. The look on her face let me know that I will not be trying this at any time in the foreseeable future. But part of me was like that's pretty badass.

      I had a similar thought as your wife did when I first saw his run this morning. Then two things occurred to me: 1. getting up at 4:30am every morning dead-ass tired so I can run isn't too much better even though I think there's a world of difference between the two; and 2. I really wish I was in that kind of zone now (or anytime in the near future) where getting my run in is so important that I'd need to do something like that. So yeah, I had a little bit of jealousy too, as dumb as that is.

      Upcoming races:  I dunno.

      steve_


      powered by plants

         

        Runners are so feckin weird, man.

         

        This morning I told my wife about this guy on my strava who ran at 2:47am this morning because he had to leave at an already ungodly hour to catch a flight. The look on her face let me know that I will not be trying this at any time in the foreseeable future. But part of me was like that's pretty badass.

         

        Talking to your wife about Strava is waaaaaaay weirder than running pre-3am on a travel day.

        5k: 17:52 (2014); 10k 36:59 (2014); 15k: 56:29 (2018); Half: 1:19:27* (2018); Full: 2:54:22 (2018)

        *downhill AF

        darkwave


        Mother of Cats

          For some reason while reading here this week I keep glancing up at the web address bar to make sure I'm not on letsrun.com.

           

          Carry on!

           

          That's easy - letsrun has a yellow background; this one is blue.

          Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

           

          And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            Rambling thoughts building on the earlier conversation about treadmilling....

             

            So...my previous sport is equestrian - jumping horses.  And when I trained in that sport, we regularly did things at home in the ring that were harder than anything we expected to face in competition.  The reasoning behind that was so that whatever appeared at the show would be less intimidating and we'd be more relaxed and comfortable and could do it easily.   I understand that you see similar in gymnastics, figure skating, etc.

             

            Running and other endurance sports are the opposite, as I learned.  Your ultimate goal is to deliver your very best performance when it most matters, on the day of competition, not in practice.  You don't run mile repeats at 5:40 so that you can break 6:00 when you race that distance.

             

            it's important to remember that.  Otherwise we fall into a mindset where we are always trying to make things harder for ourselves, with the idea that it will pay off in improved performance.  But running doesn't work that way.  Correct training is hard enough on its own; try to make it even harder, and you can sabotage yourself.

             

            I'm not saying that you should always take the easiest route - I'm a big believer in not skipping runs due to miserable (but not unsafe) weather. for example.  But the idea that a workout or run is more effective when you make it more challenging by lumping additional external obstacles is not one that generally holds true.

             

            (caveat - if you're going to face a specific situation in a race, it does make sense to emulate that a few times in workouts.  If you're going to be all alone in your marathon, then you should probably do some long runs and workouts by yourself.   However, I believe there are very few races held on treadmills, so unless you will be racing on a treadmill sans TV, there's no need to drill that).

             

            If you do the work consistently, and make sure not to go too long between actual races, you're getting all the mental toughness you need, in my book.  Making stuff harder in practice just limits your gains rather than boosting your performance.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            Nimmals



               

              If you do the work consistently, and make sure not to go too long between actual races, you're getting all the mental toughness you need, in my book.  Making stuff harder in practice just limits your gains rather than boosting your performance.

               

              That's great advice. Part of why I don't do useless pace. The race is hard enough. I'd rather show up with fresh legs and a full tank. Maybe Jimmy Johnson will shed some light on marathon running vs Nascar racing. There comes a point in the race where fresher tires will give an advantage. Maybe he can somehow relate that to running.

              JMac11


                If you see Jimmy Johnson swerving in the middle of the race, he may not be bonking, just warming up some new tires

                5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                  This right here is my jam. Currently I’m rewatching the entire Game of Thrones series at about a 7:40 pace.

                  Yesterday I finally got to see Joffrey Baratheon die. Can’t believe he makes it in to season 4.

                   

                   

                  What happens if while watching said TV you're running at a 7:40 pace?

                  Vision without action is a day dream.

                  Action without vision is a nightmare. 

                    This right here is my jam. Currently I’m rewatching the entire Game of Thrones series at about a 7:40 pace.

                    Yesterday I finally got to see Joffrey Baratheon die. Can’t believe he makes it in to season 4.

                     

                     

                    Is your original TM still fecking doing it?

                    Runners run.

                    JMac11


                      Yesterday I finally got to see Joffrey Baratheon die. Can’t believe he makes it in to season 4.

                       

                       

                      Spoiler alert!

                       

                      My week is done at 58 miles. Injuries have ruined this cycle (medial knee issue popped up this week) and as Andres rightly suggested, it’s probably time to worry about getting to the line healthy rather than running myself into the ground. In that spirit, I completed my first back to back MLRs ever as a way to get in some quality training without doing a crazy JD workout. They’re more difficult than I expected! May try to get in a couple more this cycle whenever I feel like I’m not up for a Q day.

                      5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                      Swim5599


                        JMac sorry to here the injuries aren’t cooperating.

                         

                        Got 82.5 in this week

                        mon 8 with strides 8:12

                        tue 8 with strides 8:14

                        wed AM 7 with 3:00 CP test (4:40) and then 10 minute test (5:36)

                            Pm 9.5 with 35 minutes at mp power (6:22)

                        thurs 8 8:20

                        fri Am 5 with strides 8:10

                        PM 11 with 3x15:00 at just under MP power (6:08)

                        sat 8 8:18

                        sun 18 as 80 minutes easy then 45 minutes at Mp power (6:25)

                        HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04

                        madisonrunner


                          JMac - probably smart to eliminate speedwork and just focus on staying healthy and getting in mileage.  I wouldn't give up on a PR though.  Overall mileage is way more important than speed so you can still give it a shot.

                           

                          This week for me was a down week of 86 miles.  The only workouts were a 4 mile LAT (5:25 pace) on an indoor track and a short long run (18 miles, ~6:50 overall pace with the last 5 down into the 6:20s).

                           

                          The useless pace discussion was interesting.  I'm of the mindset that the mileage is important and the pace is not.  For the vast majority of my runs I just go at what feels easy.  For any run that's less than an hour and doesn't include any speed I should be more recovered when I finish than when I started.

                          Marathon PR:  2:35:49 (2019)  Goal Race:  TBD


                          Elite Jogger

                             

                            Spoiler alert!

                             

                            My week is done at 58 miles. Injuries have ruined this cycle (medial knee issue popped up this week) and as Andres rightly suggested, it’s probably time to worry about getting to the line healthy rather than running myself into the ground. In that spirit, I completed my first back to back MLRs ever as a way to get in some quality training without doing a crazy JD workout. They’re more difficult than I expected! May try to get in a couple more this cycle whenever I feel like I’m not up for a Q day.

                             

                            I’ve got to admit I was shocked when I saw your Monday run, but throwing in those demanding Daniels workouts is just setting you back with more niggles. With 9 weeks to go why not just experiment with the more miles/easy pace approach (Calbears style)...ok, you don’t like running easy pace, but you’ll be less likely to get injured and you’ll see that high mileage works very well for the marathon. You can go back to Daniels in the fall if you so wish. 👍

                            5k - 17:53 (2019)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:23:18 (2019)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)

                             

                            Next Up: London Mary - 28th April

                            JMac11


                              Mikkey and Madison - thanks for chiming in, I think that's the right approach. I'll probably still throw some daniels stuff in, but dialed down a lot. Vo2 is out of the question, and I won't be doing any long runs with 4x2 repeats in them.

                               

                              Question for you guys (or others!): given I'm going to tone down the quality, I can probably ramp up mileage a bit more right? I always wonder what the tradeoff is. I know it's not a formula, but let's say you could run 60 MPW with quality, what does that equate to with all easy runs? 70?

                              5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 35:59 (3/19)  |  HM: 1:16:21 (3/19)  |  FM: 2:44:43 (4/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Brooklyn Half (5/18/19) 

                              darkwave


                              Mother of Cats

                                Jmac - seems like injuries have been whack-a-mile for you.  Any idea what seems to be the trigger?  i.e. fast hard stuff, or volume?  Or who knows?

                                 

                                My week: 60 miles,16 "miles" of pool-running, and 3000 yards of swimming:
                                M: Yoga and 8 "miles" pool-running
                                T: 12 miles, including 3x1600, 2x200 in 6:20, 6:14, 6:10 (400m jog between) then full recovery before 2x200 in 41 and 42.  Also leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.
                                W: 6 miles very easy (9:21), yoga, and 6 miles very easy (8:50) plus drills/strides
                                Th: upper body weights/core and 8 "miles" pool-running.
                                F: 12 miles, including a 4 mile (6400m) tempo on the track in 25:48  (6:39/6:29/6:23/6:17).  Also leg strengthwork and 1000 yards recovery swimming.
                                Sa: 10 miles very easy (8:23) followed by drills and strides, and then upper body weights/core and some DIY yoga.
                                Su:  14 progressive, split as first 4 averaging 8:33, next 4 averaging 7:24, last 6 averaging 6:49.   Followed with injury prevention work and 1000 yards recovery swimming.

                                 

                                Feel like I'm seeing progress this week - the 4 mile tempo was about 30 seconds faster than three weeks ago.  (worth noting - I'm running these track tempos without checking splits, so I don't know what pace I'm running until I'm done - so the improvement is not due to trying to beat a previous time).  

                                 

                                Ironically enough in light of recent discussions, I think I ran a hair too fast on Saturday, and then definitely a bit too fast for the moderate/dead zone/zone of ill repute section of my progressive long run.  Need to rein that in.  Didn't watch any tv during my outside runs, so at least there's that.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                                 

                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.