Sub 1:30 Half Marathon 2021 Edition (Read 430 times)

CommanderKeen


Aspiring Hobby Jogger

    Good weeks from the Kiwis. Optimistic views that races are at best 03% to go? I'm hating that you guys may not get the chance to race until next year.


    RP - Good that you got the mileage you did. What's the current containment on those fires?


    DWave - "The Beatings Will Continue..." That sounds like an excellent message for a yoga mat.
    Good week, and I'm glad you seem to be responding favorably to the new medication.


    James - Race report! I love reading those, and well done on the sub 20 and improvement over last year. I've already got it on the front page.


    Flavio - Get that back in line again! Massage isn't something I've tried before, myself. Kinda curious.


    Zebano - Hopefully the adjustment to the workout schedules works out favorably.
    Nordic curls? That's something I should absolutely try. I actually heard a podcast that mentioned that Jonathan Edwards used that exercise quite a bit and credited his now 26 year old world record (set in his 3rd olympics!) in the triple jump to them - despite being told by physiologists that the length/proportions of his legs made it impossible for him to be a triple jumper.


    JMac - I'm quite jealous that you got to run in the rain! This is your greatest friend when it comes to anti-chafe, especially when water is involved: 2Toms


    I feel pretty good about last week, though I think I under-shot the M-effort section of my LR a bit. Unsure how this week will go. I planned on a lighter mid-week workout and a 5k Saturday, but my HR was ~15bpm higher on my run this morning than I would have figured. I didn't feel like I was running as hard as that HR would indicate, but there's also no reason for me to doubt my oHRM. I've also got a very mild (just above annoyance-level) bit of nasal congestion, so I'm going to take tomorrow a bit easier on the effort than I would have and we'll see about the workout/race or if this is just an easy-effort week.

     

    Weekly for period: From: 08/16/2021 To 08/22/2021

    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
    in ft
    08/16 1 chorus of coyotes & 1 fast, dark colored nocturnal creature (badger?) 13.25 21.32 01:45:51 07:59 04:58 486
    08/16 2 herons & 1 student pilot 4.75 7.65 00:40:19 08:29 05:16 135
    08/17 Nothing noteworthy this morning 8.05 12.96 01:11:04 08:50 05:29 364
    08/18 3 up, 5x alternating 1 mi HM effort, 1 mi E 14.05 22.61 01:47:49 07:40 04:46 558
    08/19 1 hawk 8.10 13.04 01:07:46 08:22 05:12 367
    08/20 1 owl & some lightning way off in the distance 9.01 14.49 01:14:23 08:15 05:08 404
    08/20 2 herons & 1 Mississippi kite 4.75 7.65 00:40:14 08:28 05:16 184
    08/21 3 hawks, 1 owl, & 1 deer (1 stride), & the last 7 at M effort 17.11 27.52 02:13:06 07:47 04:50 735
    08/22 1 monarch butterfly 5.00 8.05 00:43:32 08:42 05:24 144

    Total distance: 84.09mi

    5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

     

    Upcoming Races:

     

    12/4 - Tucson Marathon?

    12/5 - California International Marathon

    JMac11


    Milkman

      While I enjoy the continuous shout outs over here in sub 1:30, I will be living over in sub 3:00 through CIM. I am reading through these though and will try to keep up to speed on all of your work.

       

      Just because it was mentioned: CK, have you tried this and body glide and found this works better than body glide?

       

      Regarding MP effort: just gotta keep waiting for the fall. It's so hard to go out in these runs and go a lot slower and be confident it will come together once October weather hits.

      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

       

      Next Race: Unknown 

      CommanderKeen


      Aspiring Hobby Jogger

        While I enjoy the continuous shout outs over here in sub 1:30, I will be living over in sub 3:00 through CIM. I am reading through these though and will try to keep up to speed on all of your work.

         

        Just because it was mentioned: CK, have you tried this and body glide and found this works better than body glide?

         

        Regarding MP effort: just gotta keep waiting for the fall. It's so hard to go out in these runs and go a lot slower and be confident it will come together once October weather hits.

         

        JMac - When I use any type of anti-chafe, this is it. Practically for the last 7 years (I've tried bodyglide and all sorts of other stuff during that time as well). The only "downside" to this is that it takes soap/water to get rid of it if you get any on your hands. I just stays put, isn't affected by water/sweat, and it also won't stain your fancy running clothes.

         

        The little wipes are good to just put in a pocket (I have one in my vest) for an emergency, but for general application the roll-on is where it's at. There's also a "blister shield" from the same company. It works much the same, but it's a powder. Also easy to put on your feet, or even just dump some in your socks, shake around, then put your foot in if you know you're going to end up with really wet feet (rain or water crossing-type water).

         

        In the future I may post one-off drive-by's to you over in sub 3, as I lurk there as well.

        5k: 18:14 11/21 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:24:16 11/19 │ M: 3:04:13 11/18

         

        Upcoming Races:

         

        12/4 - Tucson Marathon?

        12/5 - California International Marathon

          Jmac sub 3 thread is ok but the cool 😎 kids hang out here 

          Seriously though we miss you on here.

           

          Ck huge week no wonder you have chafing 

           

          We are in level 4 for a few more days in my region  so plenty of time for running at least.

          50+ PBs -  

          5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

          10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

          Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

          " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

          Somewhere in between is about right "      

           

          Marky_Mark_17


            Keen - great week.  That HR is a bit high, the scale of that differential suggests more of a mis-reading than anything else (15bpm is a lot!).

             

            Zebano - standing desks are pretty cool. Our (currently closed) office has a bunch and they're always the first ones to go in the morning (we hot desk so its first come first served).  Hope those niggles are improving.

             

            James - echoing RP's advice, there's no value to be gained in comparing yourself to last year.

             

            RP - sucks on the air quality situation for you.  My phone says ours is 22 right now.  So yours is 20x worse.  I can't imagine that's fun.

             

            JMac - what Piwi said about the cool kids hanging out here.  I'm younger than him so I'm assuming he was referring to me.

             

            Me - trying to contingency plan in my head while doing hard intervals this morning.  I'm hoping we'll be OK by the time North Shore Run Series (starting late Oct) and Nelson Half (early Nov) roll around.  Mentally I've written off September races for us Aucklanders, although I think there's a chance National Road Relays in early Oct might be OK.  It's frustrating because my fitness feels really good right now, possibly even better than when I ran Southern Lakes half in May, but what can you do?

            5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

            HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

            * Net downhill course

            Last race: McKinnon Shield #1 3000m, 9:07.7 (PB) (Nov-21)

            Up next: Run Orewa 10km, 16 Jan

            "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              Keen It has jumped Highway 50, and the forests are closed.

              "Cal Fire and U.S. Forest Service officials reported the wildfire Monday morning at 106,562 acres (167 square miles) with 5% containment." according to the Sacramento Bee. I believe it is the Caldor Fire causing my air to turn the sky orange. Yes the same color as President Donald trump.

               

              Anti-chafe I'm a Squirrels Nut Butter fan. They have a vegan option, and their regular is made mostly of coconuts. I think it goes on much easier than body glide.

               

              Marky Mark 20 times? not bad. I don't know what I'll do when the smoke goes away. Maybe a rain dance until fall gets here and wind kicks up along with the cold. Should be fun to complain then.

               

              EDIT:

              Another article about the fire.

               

              https://www.tahoedailytribune.com/news/caldor-fire-grows-to-more-than-100k-acres-5-contained/

               

              The King fire was the year I was married. Outside wedding. People asked what I was going to do about the smoke. "uhhh....nothing? Maybe install giant fans at the venue to push it all away." People thought I was serious for about 10 seconds.

               

              EDIT #2:

              I looked at purple air just now. Air quality is 400 all over. The inside of someone's house is a 159. yeah. INSIDE.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 51

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

              JMac11


              Milkman

                Steve - I know I've commented on this before and I promise I won't comment again, but it's really out of a desire to see you succeed: I still don't follow why you run your easy runs so fast. I saw your run from yesterday (I think, time is crazy with you people) and you ran the run at 7:40. Your half marathon pace is 40 seconds slower than that, but let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say it's 60 because you're in shape. That's like Mark running his easy runs at 6:20 (3:55). Your heart rate was also very high. I've seen other easy runs you've done lower, but it seems like you're north of 140 most runs right out of the gate. I'm not a HR guy but consistent 140+ (and 150s yesterday) demonstrates this is too quick on top of the general pace guidelines, no?

                 

                Again, I won't comment again, but I'm really struggling to understand what your coach is doing by a) not telling you to slow down and b) giving you crazy long runs meant for the marathon. Maybe he has a very different philosophy than almost every other coach I've seen. Even Daniels, who notoriously prescribes the fastest easy pace of any coach, would put you at 8:00 at the absolute fastest end of his range.

                 

                That is the end of my foray back into 1:30 training discussions. I'll always come back for Piwi though 

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Unknown 

                SteveChCh


                Hot Weather Complainer

                  JMac - Yeah, yesterday was too fast, particularly towards the end with a tailwind.  And it was the first warm day of Spring (not even that warm but a reasonably sudden change, from around 0-5C (32-40F) to 21C (70F)) which may have impacted the heart rate.

                   

                  That one workout was too big and my coach has since admitted he made a mistake with that.  Now that it's starting to warm up (albeit with an atrocious forecast for this weekend), faster easy paces will hurt me even more.  How about I promise to keep my easy pace at no faster than 5:00/km (8:00/mile) and work that down even more when I start marathon training in the heat of December.  Probably not slow enough but it's a start.

                   

                  I should get some good practice soon.  I told my coach if the race is cancelled (which I expect to happen this weekend), I'm going to need to keep it mostly easy for a few weeks.  Even now it's hard to do hardish workouts knowing there's probably no race.

                   

                  I think my best case scenario current HMP is 4:15/km (6:48/mile).

                  PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                  Recent Races:    Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                  Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 10, 2022 (Target: Sub 3:20)

                  Marky_Mark_17


                    That's like Mark running his easy runs at 6:20 (3:55).

                     

                    Yuk.  No thanks.

                     

                    Anyway, National 10k Road Champs has been postponed until 7 Nov, unsurprisingly.  Annoyingly, that clashes with the Nelson Half that I've already entered (and planned a small family holiday around...) so I'll have to make a call on that one.  Assuming they can both still go ahead then.

                    5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                    HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                    * Net downhill course

                    Last race: McKinnon Shield #1 3000m, 9:07.7 (PB) (Nov-21)

                    Up next: Run Orewa 10km, 16 Jan

                    "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                      Cmon Mark thats your recovery pace 

                       

                      RP Squirrel nut butter...that's hilarious for body glide 

                       

                      Jmac the voice of reason. I suppose my 14km tempo was too far 

                      50+ PBs -  

                      5k 18.21 Hagley Parkrun  July 21      82.27 % age grade

                      10k TT 37.21 may 2nd 2021 strava run 82.51 % age grade

                      Half marathon  1.23.30 may 21 80.11 % age grade

                      " If you don't use it you lose it,  but if you use it, it wears out.

                      Somewhere in between is about right "      

                       

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        Cmon Mark thats your recovery pace 

                         

                        RP Squirrel nut butter...that's hilarious for body glide 

                         

                        Jmac the voice of reason. I suppose my 14km tempo was too far 

                         

                        It is even funnier when you tell your wife in an excited voice

                        “my new NUT BUTTER came in.”

                        ooooh what kind?

                        ”squirrel. 
                        huh? Oh...running stuff?

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 51

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                        JamesD


                        JamesD

                          ...Annoyingly, that clashes with the Nelson Half that I've already entered... 

                           

                          Does the Nelson Half's logo show a runner with a Half Nelson (wrestling hold) on another runner?

                          Post-1987 PRs:  Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (April '20)

                          2021 Goals:  Stay healthy, 40+ mpw, Half<1:30; a PR or 80% age-grade (81.75% 5K Oct. 2)

                          JMac11


                          Milkman

                            Steve - I definitely think the transition to slower easy runs takes time. If you go back to the old runner's world days, my first posts were about trying to break 1:30 and I was running almost exactly the same easy pace as you. I got away with it though because I was only running 30ish miles per week. Once you start getting into higher mileage, you're only hurting yourself.

                             

                            Within easy pace, there is a sweet spot for folks, but that spot is in a huge range. I'd say for a guy like you, who let's say is in 1:28-1:30 shape, that easy pace could range from 8:00 all the way to 9:30. You'll see people like DW on the slower end of her range. I (and Mark) tend to be towards the faster range. I screwed around with slower paces two summers ago because I knew so many successful people were doing that (running my easy runs around 8:15 to 8:30) but I actually found my workouts kept getting worse. It's like my brain couldn't handle how fast I needed to be moving compared to my easy runs. But I wanted to experiment to see if it was right for me, and it wasn't.

                             

                            So I found out for myself that somewhere around MP + 90 seconds per mile is about right. On hot days after a 20 miler, that might be MP+135. On super cool days near the end of my cycle where I'm in great shape and I'm running "easy" pace in the middle of a Daniels workout where it's okay to let easy pace creep up? That might be MP+60. But it is never MP+30, which is basically what you're running. We always had this silly joke with nimmals about the dead zone because his definition of it was wild with how slow he though people should run, but the concept of a no man's land for easy pace definitely makes sense. Daniels is a bit too strict with his definition of paces and that you can't run in between those paces, but MP+30 is pretty close to useless territory. Maybe I'd run that if I was in a base phase (or all easy as you described) and I wanted to just run something faster, but not a true tempo run. It wouldn't be a pace I went to often though.

                             

                            I'll also echo something DW has said before: what I'm saying here applies to your level. I wouldn't say that a person trying to break 4:00 in the half marathon should run their easy runs at MP+90, as their MP and Easy Pace converges. In the reverse, Kipchoge is probably not doing easy recovery runs with a 5 in font of it. But I think somewhere in the MP+60 to MP+120 is right for someone in the 1:2X range.

                             

                            End of posting, back to lurking!

                            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                             

                            Next Race: Unknown 

                            Marky_Mark_17


                               

                              Does the Nelson Half's logo show a runner with a Half Nelson (wrestling hold) on another runner?

                               

                              Haha, I cracked up when I read this.  It doesn't... but it should!

                              5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                              HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)

                              * Net downhill course

                              Last race: McKinnon Shield #1 3000m, 9:07.7 (PB) (Nov-21)

                              Up next: Run Orewa 10km, 16 Jan

                              "CONSISTENCY IS KING"

                              SteveChCh


                              Hot Weather Complainer

                                JMac - Thanks for your thoughts.  I got much better at slower easy pace during marathon training maybe because I knew I'd pay a big price.  I have to learn to think that way for all training I guess.  Also, I probably need to remember every run has a purpose.  That Monday easy run, I probably sub-consciously think that it isn't adding anything to my training when obviously adding mileage is a big part of it.  Even though I'm not targeting a marathon until April now, 4:46/km for an easy run when I'm still targeting 4:42/km marathon pace is ridiculous.  Thanks for pointing it out.

                                 

                                I'll drop into the marathon thread when I want some more JMac wisdom.

                                PB:  Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                                Recent Races:    Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                                Race plan:  Christchurch Marathon April 10, 2022 (Target: Sub 3:20)