1

Hybrid shoes for trail and road? (Read 69 times)

AccidentalJazz


    Hi all, I'm new to the forums. My running route goes along about 5k of road and 5k of 'trail' where I'm running along a dirt path.

     

    My current shoes are some old Nike pair that are super thin and flexible but as I overpronate, they're giving me really bad blisters on the underside of my arch.

    I've done some searching for shoes that are cushioned against overpronation and which also will work well on road and trail conditions but I've had no luck so far.

     

    I found the NB 1080v10 on a 'best shoes of 2020' article and it looked compelling but I think it won't have enough traction for the dirt section of my route. (https://www.newbalance.co.uk/men/shop-by-style/fresh-foam-1080-for-men/fresh-foam-1080v10/M1080V10-31138.html?dwvar_M1080V10-31138_style=M1080A10#style=M1080F10)

     

    Do any of you know of some good hybrid shoes?

     

    For reference I'm a mens size 11ish.

    kilkee


    runktrun

      The NB1080 is an extremely cushioned shoe, neutral platform, so not designed to support over-pronators, and will be VERY different from what you describe as your current shoe: "super thin and flexible."  Also, the tread is NOT good for muddy surfaces.

       

      That said, many road shoes are adequate for dirt, cinder, or gravel trail running.  If you like nike, the Pegasus is a good basic shoe that will be stiffer than what you have now, but it is neutral.  Nike Structure provides some medial support (under your arch).  Note that blisters under your arch is not necessarily the same thing as overpronating to the point that you need correction.

       

      Do your shins or knees hurt?  If it is just blisters, try different socks made for running (feetures, switftwick, darn tough (my favorite)).  Or try a light foam insert with the arch built up.  Take out the foam sole that comes with the shoe if you use a separate insert.

       

      For trail running over slick rocks of muddy surfaces, I have liked the new balance Summit.  It's not as chunky as a lot of trail shoes, and transitions nicely to the roads.

      Not running for my health, but in spite of it.

      AccidentalJazz


        I actually just received a pair of pegasus 36s but I ordered a size too small unfortunately. I think I might order a larger size and perhaps a Summit, then return whichever I like least.

         

        My knees and shins feel fine, the only pain I've noticed is some tightness in my feet (around the arches) throughout the day. The blisters have been my biggest issue with the running, especially recently as my runs have gotten longer and the blisters have gotten worse.

        I bought some thick wool socks and they're making a huge difference, but ultimately don't seem like enough if I'm still getting blisters.

         

        I think a foam insert is probs the best way to go. Do you have any recommendations of brands?

          define "trail"

           

          For 90% of runners, that just means "not pavement". Packed-dirt paths and roads are essentially the same as pavement. Most trails do not require aggressive tread or rubber toe bumpers. Road shoes work just fine if not better (fewer constraints).

           

          For sloppy conditions; loose dirt, mud, snow, slush, laterally slanted trails, yeah, aggressive tread is definitely worth it. For frequent roots and rocks and uneven terrain, toe protection and a rock plate are definitely worth it.

           

          If you're only going to wear one shoe model and not have different ones in rotation:

           

          I think Hoka Challenger is a good on/off trail shoe. The tread is good on both, and at least for me, it's pretty durable on pavement. The routes I would wear them on had significant asphalt sections. Well cushioned, but not like the Hokas of yesteryear. Good stability regarding keeping your foot in place inside the shoe. Not too heavy for what they are.

           

          hint: good running socks will help with blisters; balega, injinji, smartwool PhD, etc

          55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

          AccidentalJazz


            define "trail"

             

            For 90% of runners, that just means "not pavement". Packed-dirt paths and roads are essentially the same as pavement. Most trails do not require aggressive tread or rubber toe bumpers. Road shoes work just fine if not better (fewer constraints).

             

            For sloppy conditions; loose dirt, mud, snow, slush, laterally slanted trails, yeah, aggressive tread is definitely worth it. For frequent roots and rocks and uneven terrain, toe protection and a rock plate are definitely worth it.

             

            If you're only going to wear one shoe model and not have different ones in rotation:

             

            I think Hoka Challenger is a good on/off trail shoe. The tread is good on both, and at least for me, it's pretty durable on pavement. The routes I would wear them on had significant asphalt sections. Well cushioned, but not like the Hokas of yesteryear. Good stability regarding keeping your foot in place inside the shoe. Not too heavy for what they are.

             

            hint: good running socks will help with blisters; balega, injinji, smartwool PhD, etc

             

            What I called the "trail" section is really just rough ground with loose dirt, gravel, dirt paths etc. I don't think it's anything that needs a proper trail shoes (the ones I've seen look pretty intense and unecessary for my needs).

             

            I'll check out the Challenger, I've ordered a pair of Nike Pegasus as they were discounted but they won't arrive for a few weeks now.

            I'll also look to get some actual proper running socks.

             

            Do you have any experience with custom insoles to prevent overpronation? I've really gotten into running recently and I now run 7-10Ks  regularly where previously 6k was about my longest run ever. As a result I'm a little concerned about damaging myself.

            kcam


              If you go to a local running store they will tell you that people that overpronate are normally directed to Stability shoes.  Here's Running Warehouse's inventory of Stability shoes, there's even some trail shoes in there.  It doesn't sound like you really need trail shoes but they won't hurt anything if you use them, they'll just be heavier.

              https://www.runningwarehouse.com/catpage-MSRS.html

                I don't know about any insoles that turn neutral shoes into stability or motion-control shoes, but they probably exist.

                 

                Read up on pronation and footstrike; a lot of the more recent studies are showing that trying to "correct" a person's natural footstrike can lead to injuries. As a cynic, I think a lot of the anti-pronation technology are just gimmicks to sell more products. Especially "custom insoles". If you watch Kipchoge's footstrike, you'll see supination and a very distinct medial ankle roll (which is what all the motion-control stuff is made to "correct"), yet he's run under 2 hours for the marathon distance, and many sub 2:06 marathon races; and more importantly all the training that it takes to get there. But, for some people, motion-control and "custom insoles" work, even if it's just placebo, if it works then that's good.

                 

                The beauty of trail running is that the terrain angle and slope is constantly changing, and thus so is footstrike. It makes for strong lower leg muscles, especially the smaller muscle groups that control fine movement. Stability or motion control is almost moot.

                55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                kilkee


                runktrun

                  SurlyBill - spot on about natural footstrike.  Late 90s-early 00s saw an emphasis on totally "correcting" over pronation, then the reaction to that was barefoot/minimal, then zero drop, then max cushioniong...

                   

                  Superfeet brand insoles have rigid plastic heel cups and arches that do support and change the arch shape/prevent the arch from collapsing and the medial side of the ankle from rotating down.  THEY ARE NOT FOR EVERYONE. If you don't have sore shins or knees or a history of injury, then I would recommend you NOT drastically change your footstrike due to blisters.

                   

                  I like these: https://profoot.co/2oz-miracle-insoles-womens/

                  for just a bit of extra thickness under my heel and arch.  I tend to overpronate just enough for it to be a problem when I am tired and don't use these regularly.

                  Not running for my health, but in spite of it.

                    I'm currently at the conclusion that lightweight neutral shoes are the best way to go.

                     

                    My opinions change when presented with new info and experiences, though.

                    55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                    keeponrunning


                      At this point I'd be checking your socks for the blister issues rather than the shoes.  Cotton socks and even some wool ones are just not meant for running.

                      That said, some shoes just cause blisters, not because they're a bad shoe or even the wrong type for you, just not the right shoe for you.  I have a pair of OnClouds right now that some of my running friends were raving about but they're only comfortable for about 10mi then they start to rub my arches no matter what socks I'm wearing.  The shoe isn't that different from what I'm used to, only a bit heavier and more cushioned, but it just doesn't work for me.

                      Also, if it's just dirt paths you're running on, a road shoe should be plenty of traction.  I have had some shoes work better for me as hybrid shoes than others but in reality unless you're running where there are lots of rocks, roots, mud, or other challenging terrain you really don't need them.

                        Absolute blister-proof sock is the Injinji combo two part sock. Thin toe sock on the inside, thin full sock on the outside.

                        55-59 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying