2022 Advanced Racing Thread (Read 497 times)

     

    DavePNW - thanks again for the pictures.  May I add them to my race report?

     

    Just catching up—of course! Off to read the RR now.

     

    MTA: nice report! Although I feel like I got the sneak preview live in person.  I’ve been telling everyone about your surreal first mile experience, lol. You showed me your watch distance; I only had 26.54 miles on mine, which I think is my longest so far, but not as bad as I expected. I know people in the past who have been >27; I had some friends this year who ended up 26.8-26.9. 

    I’m glad you decided to run it, and seems you were too. My first Chicago, and I think it may now be my favorite marathon. I agree with your friend who says any day you finish a marathon is a good one. I think I also said something to that effect when we spoke. I guess it’s superstition, when someone asks before a race “what number marathon will this be?”, I only answer the number I’ve run so far. Because finishing is never a sure thing. Every race there is a point when I realize I’ll probably finish, and just that is a good feeling. Then crossing the finish line, regardless of how ugly, I mentally check off another one. We’ll all hit a point when we can’t do this anymore.

    Dave

    Mikkey


    Mmmm Bop

      I'm gonna confess that I've heard of My Chemical Romance, but don't actually know anything by them.

       

      They’re way too commercial for you! 

      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

      Running Problem


      Problem Child

        steve just read the race report. Damn dude. Way to power through out of complete determination. I don't remember having cramps during my first marathon. I remember hitting the wall, walking a TON, and being miserable. I went out at a 3:30 pace and finished in 3:56. I thought I could do 3:30 because I'd done some long runs around 8:00/mi pace. Boy was I wrong.

        why did you not want the medal? Bad memories?

        I like to say "The lows are so low because the highs are so high." I'm pretty sure I learned exactly what depression feels like after running marathons. Either that or it's just withdrawl from how great everything was during training and racing when I achieve a massive goal, and going back to normal life sucks. As others have said, it's always best to get back to "normal" (non-running focused) life after a marathon.

         

        Marby way to stick with it. Pacing is really hard and I've never done it for a marathon. I had the pacers at my first Sub 3 marathon running 6:45/mi for a lot of the miles and I think it ruined a few people's day/opportunity. They definately slowed down BIG TIME in the final mile. I was mostly annoyed with it because when I came to aid stations the pack would speed up and swallow me trying to get drinks/gels, then slow down to eat. If they'd just stuck to a 6:50/mi pace I could have been happier. Nice job on the sub 3:30.

         

        Ian If you want to add speed work, you'll add in mileage. Typically I follow Hanson's marathon training which has a 1.5-3 mile warm up and cool down with about 3 miles of speed work (4x1,200m for example) which ends up being 7-8 miles, I think, on one day. This would be the difference between a 40 and a 50 mile week. It's weird how it works out, at least to me, and it ends up getting both boxes checked (more miles. speed.) with just one simple trick. Okay that last part felt very TV/Internet/scammer talk.

         

        JMac re:"old man path giving up all distances except the marathon." I was once told "you'd rather be good at a lot of things than GREAT at one or two things." When I finally stopped wanting to be a Jack of all trades, no pun intended, I really became better at what I was focusing on.

        It sucks the 2Q program has burned you. I really do enjoy seeing you rip up the streets and park paths with your speed. Perhaps one of the other training plans in the book can appeal to you if not Hanson's or Pfitz. Maybe, and I know how stupid this sounds financially, a coach would help you get to your ultimate goal. 2:39:59...I'd straight up retire from the marathon, and possibly racing, if I hit that time. Even a 2:49:59 I'd retire from racing and just aim for "sub-3" because the amount of training going into PRs every year just makes the beginning of training SUUUUUUUUUCKK.

         

        Cal I'm pretty sure I'd fangirl out BIG TIME if I saw Eulid. heck, ONE day Jim Walmsley was in Carson City, and I just didn't want to go running. He finished his run on a street I run daily and I PROBABLY would have been finishing even my slow run about the same time. I think it was around 2018 or 2019 before he won States. So seeing Eulid I can understand them asking for 10 minutes to rotate people through.

         

        Mikkey I'm a confirmed entry for Boston 2023. Hotel and plane tickets booked. Race paid for. All I need now is the jacket and a specific Boston 2023 training thread.

        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

        VDOT 53.37 

        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

        Mikkey


        Mmmm Bop

           

            

          Mikkey I'm a confirmed entry for Boston 2023. Hotel and plane tickets booked. Race paid for. All I need now is the jacket and a specific Boston 2023 training thread.

           

          Same here. 👍

           

          I’m assuming that my $235 registration fee will include a Boston jacket in my goody bag at the finish line.

          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

             

            Same here. 👍

             

            I’m assuming that my $235 registration fee will include a Boston jacket in my goody bag at the finish line.

             

            Well no, but at least you’ll get a long sleeve shirt. The same price at Chicago only gets you short sleeves. How much do sleeves cost??

            Dave

            Mikkey


            Mmmm Bop

               

              Well no, but at least you’ll get a long sleeve shirt. The same price at Chicago only gets you short sleeves. How much do sleeves cost??

               

              I have a long sleeve running shirt from 2016 NYC which I absolutely love, great colour and design…but never actually run in it.

               

              In colder days I’ll wear a long sleeve compression shirt underneath a short sleeve running top. Maybe I’ve been doing it all wrong.

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

              JMac11


              RIP Milkman

                 

                I have a long sleeve running shirt from 2016 NYC which I absolutely love, great colour and design…but never actually run in it.

                 

                 

                Just ran in my 2018 NYC long sleeve today. It was the perfect weather for it: mid 50s and very low humidity. Could be in short sleeve if it's sunny out, but nice when it's cloudy / nighttime. I go towards thicker shirts once you get around 45 degrees.

                 

                DW - read your report and the start was fascinating. I realize this isn't what you wanted, but you have to be happy with the progress over the last 6 months or so. It's hard to do keep things in perspective sometimes. Regarding my injury, I don't think so. I actually sleep very well: my daughter took up my genes and sleeps 12+ hours a night and struggles to get out of bed by 7:30 am, and she's only 2 

                 

                Sorry for being a bit delinquent with everyone else's recent training, especially mmerkle. Got caught up in my own injury rehab and all the Chicago excitement! I may be next on the marathon docket if I can make it to the start line (along with Ace who doesn't post here anymore), followed by Fishy.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                 

                JMac11


                RIP Milkman

                  My hamstring still feels off. The spots I've strained are still sore, and do flare up a bit here and there, but this morning's short run was the first time where I feel like I had some semblance of my old power in my leg, if that makes any sense. Last night, I put my odds of running the marathon at only 25/75 as my first run back on Monday afternoon felt terrible, i.e. the very border of "should I shut this down or not?". My run last night though felt better, which was very encouraging, but still pretty off. This morning was the first time I ran at my normal easy pace without having to force it, whereas my previous runs were a good 20-30 seconds slower at the same effort. So things are trending in the right direction. However, I still don't think I could run a workout right now, and certainly could not run a marathon.

                   

                  Given all of that, I've decided though I should go to a PT (physio for you non-Americans) for this. Clearly there is some broader musculoskeletal issue going on that I think they're perfect for. My hamstrings are still locked up, and the fact that I strained a new spot after the initial spot says things need to be worked out. My abductors are also crazy sore for only doing easy runs, just on my injured leg, which means they're overcompensating and need to get fixed.

                   

                  At this point in my life, I've figured out what type of PTs I don't like: those that are part of a big chain where you just go in and do a bunch of exercises. Additionally, these PT practices tend to have high turnover, so you never get someone who truly knows you. I found someone on my block that has her own private practice, which ultimately might cost me more, but I think will be perfect for what I'm looking for: someone I can build a long term relationship with and isn't going to just have me do the same 4 exercises I'm already doing at home for hamstring strengthening. When I'm at PT, the entire time should be spent doing things I cannot do at home.

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                   

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    JMac - This sucks and it's unfortunate CIM isn't an option.  I agree that you need a physio you know, and it should be what you can't do yourself so things like dry needling and ultrasound on a hamstring.  When I did my glute in 2019, I explained the issue to the physio and she said "you can't run for 8 weeks" before she'd even had a look or tried to test it.  To be fair, in that case it ended up being about 12 weeks but could easily have been very minor and only a week or 2.

                     

                    Shirts - I'd prefer a nice t shirt I can wear to show off than a running shirt that I'll feel like I shouldn't wear because at some point, all running shirts need to go in the rubbish.

                     

                    Dave - I love how high and content you sound, as you should after the perfect race.  Also a good reminder that you have to understand what it's like to have a race go the other way to understand how good it feels when it goes almost exactly to plan.

                     

                    RP - I just felt like I didn't deserve a medal after such a "bad" performance.  Now I've got some perspective I'm glad I've got it.  Like I said on the other thread, I went back and listened to the Running Rogue podcast on "The Triumph and Pain of Running" (episode 258), and at the 58:30 mark there's about 2 minutes of gold where he talks about the duality of outcomes, and not focusing on just the pain when there is also some triumph to be found.  I wish I hadn't been so depressed and negative in the stadium and crossing the finish line because getting there was a triumph.

                     

                    I also find a bit of a down period even after a good race, it's just the end of something, but this was the most depressed I've ever felt.  I'm much better now though, and went from thinking I won't do it again, to planning for April 2024, to September 2023 and now April 2023.  It all depends on my mental recovery because I won't do it if I'm not all in but I've got 6-8 weeks to decide and the improvement in my mood from a week ago is massive so in 6 weeks I might be itching to get back into it.

                     

                    Can't wait to follow your Boston journey!  I still remember the tracking of your 2:56 CIM in here and how amazing and exciting it was.

                    5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                     

                    2024 Races:

                    Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                    Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                    Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                    Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                    JMac11


                    RIP Milkman

                       

                       

                      I also find a bit of a down period even after a good race, it's just the end of something, but this was the most depressed I've ever felt.  I'm much better now though, and went from thinking I won't do it again, to planning for April 2024, to September 2023 and now April 2023.  It all depends on my mental recovery because I won't do it if I'm not all in but I've got 6-8 weeks to decide and the improvement in my mood from a week ago is massive so in 6 weeks I might be itching to get back into it.

                       

                       

                      I love this journey for you. Welcome to the crazy club. There seriously are stages of grief after each one that doesn't go perfectly:

                       

                      1) Denial - often occurs in the race as things are going south. "No, no, this isn't happening. It's just in your head. You're going to be fine and you're going to recover!"

                       

                      2) Anger - "this race fucking sucks, I'm so stupid for doing this. I'm never doing another one of these again." Often, you want to punch those cheery spectators in the face who are saying things like "it's just a few more miles! You got this in you." No, I don't have it in me! OTHERWISE I'D BE RUNNING FASTER.

                       

                      3) Bargaining - "If only I had done more long runs, or maybe fewer long runs, this wouldn't have happened. What else could I have done differently to prevent this?" This phase can last the next few days after the race

                       

                      4) Sadness - "Why do I bother with running at all? Why should I pick myself up and ever try this again?" This can last anywhere from a few days to a few weeks

                       

                      5) Acceptance - "The race didn't go the way I planned. It's time to pick myself up and get back at it." Often, you can reach acceptance without necessarily getting right back into training, but you know that you want to take another crack at it.

                       

                       

                      Also your physio story is crazy. Here in the USA, that's every single doctor. The old joke of when you go to a doctor and say "when I do this, it hurts" and the doctor's response is "so don't do that." That's been my experience with most of my running injuries.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                       

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        Steve CIM holds a special place in my heart and training life. I’ll have to see what all this hype about Boston is. I was talking with another guy who will be targeting a sub 3 and we’re both new to Boston. Going out with ONLY marathoners will be odd. CIM has a 2 and 4 person relay option so you have a mix of fast and slow runners around you. Boston is ONLY marathoners and running with people capable of blowing up a sub-3 PR should be interesting.  I hear the first 8 miles are downhill and everyone goes out too fast. Ideally I’ll lock into pace early on and the tracking will be typical boring consistent.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 53.37 

                        5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22

                        flavio80


                        Intl. correspondent

                          Cal/RP - fangirling is one thing I could never understand. I've seen famous people nearby before, I just took a mental note they were there and carried on my day.

                          On that note: soccer players always look smaller in person, while MMA fighters are gigantic.

                           

                          Steve - that half that I paced my wife I threw both the medal and the t-shirt in the bin.

                          Honestly I don't even keep many medals these days.

                           

                          Jmac - good decision to go to the PT. I've gone twice last week. They mostly do massage and passive stretching, a bit of warm bags too.

                          It costs 42 euros. They fix everything, they're pretty good.

                          PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021

                          Up next: no idea

                          Tool to generate Strava weekly

                          CalBears


                            They’re way too commercial for you! 

                             

                            I guess I am then a "commercial" type of music guy. I love Radiohead with their "commercial" productions/albums. Now Thom Yorke finally does what he wanted to do all his life, I guess, and I care less for that kind of "non-commercial" music - I can sleep well without his latest art/stuff without any problem.

                             

                            I’m assuming that my $235 registration fee will include a Boston jacket in my goody bag at the finish line.

                             

                            $110. And you are welcome... 

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:48  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            SteveChCh


                            Hot Weather Complainer

                              JMac - You've basically described exactly the stages I went through.  A lot of denial in the kms between sensing cramp and when it came on properly.  Anger at myself, my body and the spectators.  I yelled "come on you USELESS C**T" at my leg when I was stretching which I feel a bit bad about.  One mile left and there was a lot of "you're so close!".  I might as well be 100 miles away when I've got debilitating cramp in both legs and I can't move.   The final shuffle to what I thought was a terrible result was all "why did I bother?"

                               

                              The sad period was exacerbated by too much drinking and the soreness any time I tried to move.  Acceptance for me was accepting my time and that's the best I could do on the day.  I detected a new stage while running this morning and feeling amazing - Determination.  Incidentally, the niggle I felt early in the race was there again today.  Not even 1/10 pain but something is out of balance.

                               

                              RP - If you nail sub 3 in Boston, surely your mindset will change?  You still seem to consider yourself a hobby jogger even after that epic CIM performance.

                              5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23

                               

                              2024 Races:

                              Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                              Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024

                              Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024

                              Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                              mmerkle


                                  

                                Sorry for being a bit delinquent with everyone else's recent training, especially mmerkle. Got caught up in my own injury rehab and all the Chicago excitement! I may be next on the marathon docket if I can make it to the start line (along with Ace who doesn't post here anymore), followed by Fishy.

                                 

                                No worries. Take care of yourself man. Hope you get to toe the line.