2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 352 times)

flavio1980


Intl. correspondent

    Cal - You might wanna check why you want to leave the states to decide which country to go to.

    I’ll just say that certain people would love to live in Portugal/Italy/Spain and France, while other people would very much prefer  to live in Switzerland/Austria or Denmark.

    Your nothing special week is an awesome 72 mile week with no back pain.

     

    DPS - that’s a long time to be avoiding landing on your heel, hopefully no long term issues from the compensation. Good plan to rest a lot now.

    Well deserved after a gruelling training period.

     

    JT - Tim Cheruyot seems to be out of the Olympics. Double gold for Jakob?

     

    OMR - Nice job on 5th place and congrats on earning a well deserved Jmac Sack

     

    Steve - Are you still running in those bricks? They should make a special category for you since you're lugging 2kg in each feet 😁

    PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

    Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

    Tool to generate Strava weekly

    pepperjack


    pie man

      DWave- No worries, I know you said active so that doesn't include me at the moment.  I barely feel like a runner anymore so I don't have much to post about.  But visiting was a good excuse to stop by and say hello.

       

      Speaking of running there wasn't much on the Cappis 50k.  Named after the founder of Hardrock, I believe.  Has a legit claim at the hardest 50k in the country I would think.  Starts down low in Silverton at 9500 and then pretty much straight up a 13er.  And another. And another.  And then two more.  And another two.  (I dropped after the the first couple of those).  But it was gorgeous views and when I was falling behind the other runners I had the pikas to keep me company.

      11:11 3,000 (recent)

      jhudak55


        DW: I read your RR and the link you left in the 1:30 thread about the first time you ran by feel. I'm intrigued and I think I'm going to try it during a 5k this weekend. During workouts and races I monitor my current pace pretty closely and adjust based on what I'm seeing (I don't recall ever running faster than goal pace, so in theory on occasion something is being left on the table). Any tips on how you run 5k vs tempo vs half vs full pace?

        dpschumacher


        Making a comeback

          Thanks everyone. The thing is I normally land more so mid foot, I start heel striking as I get tired and form isn't perfect. So to me more precise, everytime my form failed I got stabbed in the leg.

           

          New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

          USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

           

          2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

          Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

          10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

          5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

          darkwave


          Mother of Cats

            DW: I read your RR and the link you left in the 1:30 thread about the first time you ran by feel. I'm intrigued and I think I'm going to try it during a 5k this weekend. During workouts and races I monitor my current pace pretty closely and adjust based on what I'm seeing (I don't recall ever running faster than goal pace, so in theory on occasion something is being left on the table). Any tips on how you run 5k vs tempo vs half vs full pace?

             

            So...for running by feel - the most important thing to remember is that you are NOT trying to hit a specific pace without looking at your watch.   I see people try to do that from time to time - i.e. run a tempo "by feel" by guessing what 6:30 pace would feel like and then trying to do that.  That's NOT running by feel.  You need to put pace and splits completely to the side.

             

            For a race, it's as simple and as hard as "run what feels right" with the goal of completely emptying your tank by the finish line.   That's really it - focus on your effort and how far you are from the finish line, and continue to adjust and assess and adjust during the race so that at the end you have nothing left.  You do the same thing in every distance from the mile to the marathon - the distinction is the distance over which you need to spread your effort.

             

            Really the best way to do it is just to do it.  Running by feel is not about thinking more, but about thinking less and just running as hard as feels right.  When you do it that way, you run without tension or straining, and end up with faster performances.

             

            As for workouts - if it's a interval workout, I decide how hard I feel like running and then do that - it can be anywhere from "relaxed" to "fast-but-fun" to "let's power".  But I try never to strain unless it's the last 100m of the last rep.  If it's a tempo, I can feel that fine line of effort where I'm balancing aerobic and anaerobic effort.  I approach that line from below, and then try to hang out there, adjusting effort as necessary to stay there.

            Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

             

            And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

            jhudak55


               

              So...for running by feel - the most important thing to remember is that you are NOT trying to hit a specific pace without looking at your watch.   I see people try to do that from time to time - i.e. run a tempo "by feel" by guessing what 6:30 pace would feel like and then trying to do that.  That's NOT running by feel.  You need to put pace and splits completely to the side.

               

              For a race, it's as simple and as hard as "run what feels right" with the goal of completely emptying your tank by the finish line.   That's really it - focus on your effort and how far you are from the finish line, and continue to adjust and assess and adjust during the race so that at the end you have nothing left.  You do the same thing in every distance from the mile to the marathon - the distinction is the distance over which you need to spread your effort.

               

              Really the best way to do it is just to do it.  Running by feel is not about thinking more, but about thinking less and just running as hard as feels right.  When you do it that way, you run without tension or straining, and end up with faster performances.

               

              As for workouts - if it's a interval workout, I decide how hard I feel like running and then do that - it can be anywhere from "relaxed" to "fast-but-fun" to "let's power".  But I try never to strain unless it's the last 100m of the last rep.  If it's a tempo, I can feel that fine line of effort where I'm balancing aerobic and anaerobic effort.  I approach that line from below, and then try to hang out there, adjusting effort as necessary to stay there.

              Thanks for the insight. I'm definitely going to try to implement in upcoming races and workouts.

               

              This morning I ran a 3 mile tempo by feel, first time ever without a specific pace goal. Went really well. The first mile felt the hardest, but was actually the slowest. The workout was run a bit faster than the shape I think I'm in now, but the effort didn't feel too difficult. Excited to see how I fare during a race this weekend!

              JMac11


              Taper Czar

                DW and I have spoken about running by feel a lot. I think it honestly requires years of work to get it right, or at least very consistent training. A good example for me is that in the middle of marathon training, I know exactly what LT pace feels like. I could probably do it without a watch at certain points, but I keep the watch to check me in the "you're going too fast" camp, not the other way around.

                 

                However, last night was a great counterexample: I am just running base miles now with a workout here and there. I set off on a 4 mile LT run. I thought I was running LT pace, but my watch clicked off 12 seconds too slow in the first mile. When I really checked how I was feeling though, I knew it was a bit too easy because I didn't feel as tired as I normally do after 1 mile at LT. So I did pick it up. However, I then reached about 10 seconds too fast by mile 3. The watch helped me dial it back into the right zone.

                 

                All of this is to say running by feel works best when you are consistently running that pace, if not every week, at least every other week. Ask someone to go run 8 miles at MP who hasn't run that workout/pace in 4 months and it will probably be a disaster from a pacing perspective.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)

                pepperjack


                pie man

                  I did a reel on the course from the top of Kendall Benchmark, if anyone is curious.

                   

                  https://www.instagram.com/reel/CQTkuY7HsLU

                  11:11 3,000 (recent)

                    https://www.instagram.com/reel/CQTkuY7HsLU

                     

                    Nice video...and nice to see you back.  I don't suppose there is much oxygen up there?

                     

                    Is Ilana running anymore?   (...if not, maybe I'll challenge her to a foot race!)

                    Running Problem


                    Problem Child

                      I did a reel on the course from the top of Kendall Benchmark, if anyone is curious.

                       

                      https://www.instagram.com/reel/CQTkuY7HsLU

                      DAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMNNNN!

                      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                      VDOT 51

                      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                      Running Problem


                      Problem Child

                        DW and I have spoken about running by feel a lot. I think it honestly requires years of work to get it right, or at least very consistent training. A good example for me is that in the middle of marathon training, I know exactly what LT pace feels like. I could probably do it without a watch at certain points, but I keep the watch to check me in the "you're going too fast" camp, not the other way around.

                         

                        However, last night was a great counterexample: I am just running base miles now with a workout here and there. I set off on a 4 mile LT run. I thought I was running LT pace, but my watch clicked off 12 seconds too slow in the first mile. When I really checked how I was feeling though, I knew it was a bit too easy because I didn't feel as tired as I normally do after 1 mile at LT. So I did pick it up. However, I then reached about 10 seconds too fast by mile 3. The watch helped me dial it back into the right zone.

                         

                        All of this is to say running by feel works best when you are consistently running that pace, if not every week, at least every other week. Ask someone to go run 8 miles at MP who hasn't run that workout/pace in 4 months and it will probably be a disaster from a pacing perspective.

                        Guarantee someone would do that 8 mile workout at their goal or most recent PR pace. I kind of learned running by feel when everyone was telling me GPS wouldn’t work in Chicago. I learned a lot and it really helped me understand what too fast felt like. I was also doing it once a week for 6-8 weeks when I started to think I understood it. Still mortified me and it’s still witchcraft.

                         

                         

                         

                         

                        edit: I did EXACTLY what Darkwave said. I tried to figure out what race pace FELT like. I’d use the watch to keep me on track like a crutch and then progressed (ripped off the bandaid and jumped into the deep end) to checking it just at the 1 mile mark so I actually had to FEEL the run and pace and effort. Yeah had a mostly flat running path around a body of water so it was a lot of repetition. It is still witchcraft.

                        Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                        VDOT 51

                        5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                        pepperjack


                        pie man

                           

                          Nice video...and nice to see you back.  I don't suppose there is much oxygen up there?

                           

                          Is Ilana running anymore?   (...if not, maybe I'll challenge her to a foot race!)

                           

                          Yes, still running.  Has a local half on the calendar.  I think she popped up in my strava doing her track workout yesterday, even.

                           

                          Brew--I told you I needed real elevation!  Mt. Rose is nice, though.  I need to get back up there to run around soon.

                           

                          (video from https://peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=15161)

                          11:11 3,000 (recent)

                          Running Problem


                          Problem Child

                             

                            Yes, still running.  Has a local half on the calendar.  I think she popped up in my strava doing her track workout yesterday, even.

                             

                            Brew--I told you I needed real elevation!  Mt. Rose is nice, though.  I need to get back up there to run around soon.

                             

                            (video from https://peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=15161)

                             

                            Check out Herlan Peak. Much longer run from just around the corner of Rose. You could also do Job Peak (job like the guy in the Bible not the think you do for a paycheck) and Three Sisters.

                            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                            VDOT 51

                            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                            pepperjack


                            pie man

                              I did Freel and Job's sister a few years back, didn't make the side trip over the Job proper though.

                               

                              edit:  different Job!  https://peakbagger.com/peak.aspx?pid=24111

                              11:11 3,000 (recent)

                              JMac11


                              Taper Czar

                                JT - if you're checking in, wanted to let you know I started out of thin air based on your recommendation. So far, very good. Amazing the guy is an anthropologist and also that good at running. Great combo to write the book.

                                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                                 

                                Next Race: Cow Harbor 10K (9/18)