2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run. (Read 790 times)


    W2/16: Toledo
    M     00 55 59       6.08          easy
    T      01 06 54      8           tm easy
    W     01 29 37    11.0        tm easy
    Th    01 24 12     10.08       easy
    F      00 42 28       5.1        tm easy
            00 43 07      5.1         tm easy
    S     02 38 40      18.21     easy, cold with rotten footing, no gel or water, bottle froze Smile
    S     01 41 36      12.09  

    Pretty solid week. My weird shin thing calmed down and allowed easy running, so I'm happy with that. Such a bizarre injury, identical to what happened last year on my other leg, which was out of the blue also. My goal this week is to keep my upping mileage and crawl into the 80s and hopefully I'll be able to start re-introducing some quality work.

    Cinnamon: Cheers for being the least lazy of the lot of us ingrates!


    Andres: Congrats, nothing at all wrong with a sub 1:20 and probably just down to a lack of mileage over the past 3/4 months. It's a great launch point for Boston and they/you are due a good year there.


    Dingo: Great run today. It's really interesting following your training style and should serve you really well come comrades.


    Weatherboy: You've put together a fantastic cycle topped off by another excellent workout today. Enjoy your taper, really looking fwd. to following your race.


    Lela: Welcome aboard. There is no reason at all why you physically can't get back to where you were previously. That old sub3 is mighty impressive! Really interested in following your journey back there.


    lagwagon: Welcome, I'd be happy to share my strava too. A bunch of us are on the old rwolsub3 group there.


    Cyberic: Welcome aboard. Your volume is certainly in the ballpark to get below 3. Consistency is the key thing.


    Marky_Mark: 23F.... something insulting about your manliness Wink Single digits the past two mornings here, no problem. Hat, gloves and an outer layer that breaks the wind. The cold will teach you how to layer up inside that pretty quickly. A long sleeve T and then as many more as you need.


    Dan: Wow, congrats on winning the 50 today. No need for any asterix on that as it sounds like the weather would have eaten those fast guys regardless. Really hope Boston cooperates for you in this el-nina year.


    Finbad: You're certainly getting back into the thick of things. That's a cracking long run today!


    Watson: Solid job taking it slowly getting back into things and great to hear that your knee is behaving. It's far too easy to injure oneself training at the paces you remember running last year!


    DCV: Solid race yesterday. May... pull the trigger!


    Paul: Good to have you around anyway. More knowledge is always better and I think there's a lot of us that will get the ultra itch at some point, so it'll be interesting to follow your trails, trials and tribulations!


    Nacn, Matt, Mikkey: Great to have you guys around again this year.


    Joescott: Haha, ya great point about the FM thing. Love the streak you've got going. Show that father time guy what's what!

    5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17)  -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)

    2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40!         Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)


      iamdisappoint:  you may be right.   considering I seem to have come down with the flu this weekend and who knows how long it will take me to recover from the setback.  blech!

      - Joe

      We are fragile creatures on collision with our judgment day.


        Finlay - welcome back and nice week.

        Joe - welcome.

        Weather - great week

        Iam - welcome back.

        Cyberic - stay around.  You're not a massive way off sub 3, and your volume is high.  What's your shorter PRs?

        Kram - welcome back and nice week.  Also thanks.  2015 and 2016 were consistently good volume, not massive, but good (lots of 6x mile weeks, a few 7x mile weeks).  And then I had 6 months of small running, and then ramped quickly and really struggled.

        Anyone who I've missed welcoming - sorry.

        Re Mark's holiday - just remember that Mark is from a place that never gets particularly cold (nor hot).  It's humid and rains a lot, and has quite a bit of wind (although not as much as where I am).  So anything sub 32 F / 0 C is pretty cold for Mark.

        PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)


        40+ PRs: 5km 20:10 (Dec 2019), 10km 40:28 (Aug 2019), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018)


          watson: You could check my log and see all my PRs. I'll start by preaching for the RA log, and then I'll happily answer your question Smile  The RA log is the reason I'm here. I'm a software developer and was in the process of developing for myself a web site to analyze my data by week, by month, by year. Then I found RA, and for $10 a year for a paid subscription, I had pretty much all I wanted. Heck, all the features are actually available for free. The reporting feature of the log lets me pull pretty much anything I want for analysis. I'm also on Strava, and although their log has improved a lot over the years, it's nowhere near what you can do with the RA log. Plus, RA, just like Strava, syncs automatically with Garmin. There. Sales pitch over.


          Came to the forums later on.


          Now to answer your question.


          I don't race often. My 5k PR is pretty old, and so are most of my distance PRs. My half-marathon time is the most valid, as it is the most recent. Ran that last May. I'm running another HM in April to assess where I'm at.


          5,00 km 19:27 21/03/2015
          10,00 km 40:00 16/10/2016
          Half Marathon 1:27:29 21/05/2017
          Marathon 3:13:08 25/09/2016


          Ball park figure for a sub3 equivalence is about 1:25 for the HM and 39:00 for the 10K, if I understand correctly the previous posts.

          In the winter, don't be a slave to your running pace

            Welcome to Joescott, Lela, Lagwagon and Cyberic!


            NACN: Great to see you here!


            Finbad: Nice to have you back. That long run was great.


            Andres: Congrats on the excellent half. Being in sub-80 shape in January bodes well for your Boston fitness.


            Watson: Solid week; good to have you posting.


            Weatherboy: Excellent week.  Sounds like a good plan for the final 2 weeks. Hope that the temps are not ridiculously warm for your race; you are due for a nice 40 deg race day!


            Kram: Nice week and good job getting out in the icebox weather for that long run. Glad that your shin problem has resolved.


            My week: A strange one weather-wise as it was frigid early in the week, then up to 55-60 deg F for a couple of days, then back to frigid again. Long run yesterday was again in cold (15 F) and very windy conditions, but by alternating 5-6 mile segments against the wind then with the wind, I could avoid freezing. I was happy with a hard session on Thursday which felt pretty controlled. Two weeks till a tune-up half and 7 weeks till marathon race day.


            Weekly Summary
            Monday, Jan 08, 2018 thru Sunday, Jan 14, 2018

            <tfoot> </tfoot>
            Day Miles Pace Description Egain Link
            Tue 10.0 8:14 Morning Run on TM 0 strava
            Wed 10.2 7:56 Morning Run 509 strava
            Thu 12.8 7:18 3 x 2 mi (12:12, 12:09, 12:03), 1 x 1 mi (5:55), 0.5 mi recovery 640 strava
            Fri 10.0 8:25 Afternoon Run on TM 0 strava
            Sat 8.1 8:41 Trails in Sega Park 549 strava
            Sun 22.2 7:38 Long run 1049 strava
              73.3 7:56   2747  

            2:52:16 (2018)

              andres - nice job! (FYI, I watch the race on abc13. It was awfully presented)

              iamd -2%? I've never had anything that bad in a race. Usually 0.5% is my average. This is the 6th year I've ran the race and always got ~10.04-10.06. I wasn't the only one who thought it was a "little" long. I think it might have been due to going wider around corners due to the remaining snow and puddles.


              My legs feel like I ran a marathon on Saturday. I guess that's the problem with low mileage. My time converts to a 3:09. The marathon I might run in May at least I won't have to worry about crowds...


              My history. I've been doing this for probably way too long... I moved my running log to RunningAhead when coolrunning died. I'm 45 (46 in April). I think I've done 20 marathons. First in 2006 (NYC 3:06). First sub-3 in Boston 2009 (2:58). I had a streak of 7 out of 8 sub-3. (2:58 Bos 09, 2:55 Chi 09, 2:52 Bos 10, 2:53 Wineglass 10, 2:56 NYC 10, 2:48 Bos 11, 2:55 Houston 12). And then the imaginary wheels fell off the bus. I did manage a 3:02 Bos 15,was in sub-3 shape for 16 but that was hot). My worst marathon was my last marathon (3:35 in Bos 17, which is the reason why I'm not running Bos 18).


              I used to be a mainly no XT guy, all miles, lots of miles, but this recent virtual bike a shit-ton, run a few miles had opened my eyes a bit. More enjoyable actually.


              Also, I got a really good deal on the Vaporfly 4%'s. I ran in them on Saturday. I was expected ~1:12, maybe ~1:11? If I didn't get a bum hamstring the last mile, I probably could have done low 1:08. So... experiment of 1.


                Weekly Summary
                Monday, Jan 08, 2018 thru Sunday, Jan 14, 2018

                <tfoot> </tfoot>
                Day Miles Pace Description HR Egain Link
                Mon 11.0 7:09 Morning Run 146 (75%) 606 strava
                Tue 12.2 6:35 3.5E, 2x(20min 250-255w, 3min jog) 153 (78%) 354 strava
                Wed 11.0 7:02 Morning Run 147 (75%) 567 strava
                Thu 10.2 7:15 Morning Run 140 (72%) 291 strava
                Fri 4.7 7:33 Morning Run 0 (0%) 52 strava
                Sat 46.3 8:50 San Diego Trail 50 (er, 46.5) 152 (78%) 3171 strava
                Sun 4.5 9:02 the shakiest of shakes 130 (67%) 226 strava
                  99.9 7:58     5267  


                I got into the Angeles Crest 100 in the drawing, but need to have a 50mi finish to make that entry good. I had to be in CA for work this week and last week, so I decided to burn some FF miles and do the San Diego Trail 50 while I was on this coast. I tried to do the North Face 50 in MA last June, but it was very technical (at least to me), and I basically never run on trails, so I was looking for something more runnable. I only needed to be a finisher of the race to make it good for AC, so I didn't train for this, and instead have been doing regular training for Boston.

                The race started in Bandy Canyon. It was noticeably hot and humid for SD - my temp sensor got 72F at 6:30am. I was wearing a pack with a 1.5L bladder, and it looked like they had aid stations every ~5mi, so I wasn't terribly worried. My plan was to jog at 8-8:30 in the flats and hike the uphills whenever they got even a little bit challenging, figuring that this would leave me in OK shape to get through it. 

                The first 4 miles were flattish, then led up a moderate hill, Raptor Ridge. I think that was something like a 400ft climb, so really nothing by ultra standards. By the time we were going up that I had lost sight of the leaders, and I'm guessing there were 10-15 people ahead of me. I ran alongside a guy and started chatting, and we ended up running together through mile 24. Small world stuff: he's also a software dev, and we're both writing FIT file parsers as side projects. 

                When we got over Raptor the temperature immediately dropped and it felt wonderfully cool. I wasn't imagining this - if you look at the strava activity, you can see that the temp went from 73 -> 64 on the other side of the ridge. That felt great. 

                multi (is he here?) was at the aid station at mile 10, so I stopped and chatted him up. Super-nice of him to come out and see me go by for 30 seconds. I saw one of my sister's good running friends at mile 13, too. 

                The trail went up and around Lake Hodges, which was pretty. It was mildly rocky in spots, but way way less technical than that NF 50. We were keeping something around 8:15 pace and chatting, and it was pretty nice. Around mile 15 the sun came over the ridge and the temps started to climb pretty fast. By mile 18 at 9am, it was 84F. I was draining my mix of smartwater/water pretty fast, and realized I was going to have to refill at the next aid station. 

                We went by the aid station at mile 20, and started a series of switchbacks up a small climb, up under some powerlines, then down a paved road towards the last bit of trail before the turnaround. We saw 2-3 runners coming back our way, looked at our watches, saw that we were at 23.2mi, and exchanged some comments about how far ahead of us the lead was if they were already coming back. We then saw a truck blocking the trail up ahead, and the guy there told us that the county had told them that they couldn't use the last ~2mi of the course. I'm not sure if it was affected by a mudslide or what, but they weren't letting us in.

                At this point I got pretty bummed, as I needed the race for the AC qualifier, and I wasn't sure what the deal would be if it ended up being short. We decided to walk the road uphill back to the power lines, and the handful of people around us were chatting about it being a bit demoralizing that the course was going to be short. 

                Around mile 26 we made it back to the same aid station that we passed at 20. A guy working the station refilled the bladder in my pack for me (and seriously, the aid station people at this race were uniformly awesome, I can't say enough about how friendly and helpful they were). The guy I had been running with went for his drop bag to change his shoes, and I headed back out. He seemed to be struggling, and I was still feeling OK, so it seemed like the right time to go solo for a while. We also heard at the aid station that the short course was not known ahead of time - apparently the 3 race leaders had made it into that section before the county had told the RD that no one else was allowed in. The pack I was in apparently missed getting in by a couple of minutes. This meant that no one had any idea how the race stood if those 3 guys finished. 

                Between miles 26 and 28 things seemed to thin out rather a lot. I had seen one guy early in the race that had looked like he knew what he was doing, and caught him around 28. We walked together for a bit, he said he was trying to get a sub-8, but was bummed out about the short course, and therefore not going to kill himself.

                I had been passed by a woman who looked like she knew was she was doing at the last aid station (she breezed through, I had stayed for 5-7 minutes), and I caught her just before 30. She looked comfortable and strong. All of the aid station people seemed to know her, so I assumed she was a local. I got to the mile 31 station and managed to only spend ~2 minutes there, and was leaving as she was pulling in.

                Around mile 32 I caught another woman. I told her that she had 2-3 minutes on the next female, and she told me that she thought there was another woman ahead of her. The lady she was referring to had apparently dropped near the turnaround, but none of us knew it. 

                At this point, it was Damn Hot. Up on the ridge on Lake Hodges was 100% exposed, the wind had mostly died, and my temp sensor was 89-90F. Things were flattish and runnable though, and I realized that just chugging along at 8:30-8:45 pace was allowing me to pass people. I knew the climb back up Raptor around mile 40 was a bit of a milestone - if I could get to that and hike it, I'd only have ~5mi from there to the finish, and it'd be mostly downhill. There were also a few sections that would have tree cover, which seemed really attractive.

                When I pulled into the aid station at mile 37, the people there started taking pictures, and I was confused. I asked them how far behind the lead I was, and they told me I was it. I was pretty fried from the last 5 miles in the sun, so I took a minute under the tent to recover and nosh on some potato chips. After a minute or two the lady I had passed at 32 arrived, then I saw the other woman coming up the road behind her, still looking strong and in control The aid station people started joking with me that I should get going. The first woman and I headed out together. She said the wheels were coming off fast, and I moved ahead of her just out of the station. The 4 miles to the aid station under Raptor really sucked. They were flat but completely exposed, and just brutally hot. I had to stop once due to a stomach cramp before I could start up a little slower.

                We were on the course with people running the 50mi and people doing a 26.2. Around mile 40 I saw a guy up ahead shuffling along, and when I got close enough,I could see that his shirt said "I'm Woody. I'm 86. If I can do it, you can too!". I shook his hand. He told me that he "lived for the downhills." This definitely picked me up a bit! 

                When I got to the aid station at mile 41 I was about 40% cooked. I knew I was going to finish, but also that there was a good chance I was going to death march it in. Which was kind of OK, because who knew if this was even going to count as a finish. But I also wanted to close off the win if I could, because if I couldn't get the qualifier, I might as well get the win, even if it came with a bunch of asterisks. 

                As I was trying to get my shit together to leave the aid station, the strong-looking woman came in behind me. The aid workers started excitedly saying "hi Sally!" She was there for like 30s, then out ahead of me. Crap. I stumbled out in her direction. We chatted for a few about how it was nice to have the ridge to hike and she told me that she usually does races "with lots of climbing." I pulled ahead fast hiking, and lots her in the switchbacks.

                I tried to push a bit down the far side, but was starting to have a gut cramp again, so couldn't do much better than 8:30. I knew the last 3 miles were going to be mostly exposed again, so I was trying to strike a balance between not getting too slow and not dying. I wasn't sure if drinking was helping or hurting with my cramps, but figured drinking was the correct thing, so kept trying to get fluids in.

                There were a bunch of walking marathoners that I passed in this section. It looked to be really brutal for those unprepared for the conditions / lacking endurance. 

                I usually don't like looking back to see where the competition is - my philosophy is that I should just go as hard as I can, and if I get caught, good on them. But I really felt like I needed a walk break, so I turned around about 1.5mi from the finish .. and there she was, looking the same that she looked for the last 2 hours. Dammit. I knew it was going to hurt, but didn't want to get passed so close to the end. I did about 8:20 pace from there to the finish. If you had told me before yesterday that 8:20 on a flat would feel like all-out effort, I wouldn't have believed you.

                I ended up about 4 minutes ahead of her. It turns out she's a Nike athlete with multiple WS top-10s. She was doing this race as a training run for an upcoming 100, which certainly explains her even and awesome pacing. She joked with me at the finish that she saw me looking back.

                Shortly after finishing things got bad fast. My vision got blurry a couple of times, and when I sat down, my left calf seized so completely that my toes were involuntarily pointed, and I yelled with pain. The guy who I had passed at 28 had finished, and he came running over and stretched me out, which was a lifesaver. He was also clearly in much better shape than me to be able to react as quickly as he did.

                I finished in 7:12:55, which I think was 9:20 pace, but something like 8:50 moving pace. I looked afterwards, and Sally had spent something like 15 fewer minutes in aid stations! I clearly have a lot to improve on there. I clearly also need to work on salt intake and general nutrition if I'm going to survive a 100 - what I did on Saturday won't be good enough, that's for sure. 

                On the plus side, I did manage a number of 8Tight lipped miles after mile 35 on a really hot day, so that gives me some reason to believe that I might be good at ultras with some more specificity in my training. I should probably also figure out how to run on trails more; I think I have like 5 runs that weren't on roads in the past year. 

                As for the placement, it's unclear what would have happened if we had all made it to the section they closed. 2 of the 3 who made it in dropped, AFAICT. One finished, but he pretty rapidly fell back to 10-11 minute pace after mile 26. I don't know if that's because he was fried, demoralized, or both. It suffices to say that it wasn't a clean win.

                Now the thing I need to figure out is if this is actually going to count as a qualifier for AC or not. I'm waiting for them to post the results.



                  Happy Monday! Another week down, gonna catch up a bit here....


                  Weatherboy80- two weeks in Italy a few weeks prior to Boston sounds like great reason not to make Boston an A race...but at the same time don't discount all the walking and touring you'll be doing. That time on feet certainly will do something more than nothing, and well...pasta and wine certainly don't hurt training at least not in my book.


                  Marky_mark- Agreed with Fin, don't discount how the time on the hill will affect your legs! But, with that said...miles aren't going to kill you as long as you aren't trying to break any records. If you don't know what the roads will be like, might not be a bad idea to bring some trail shoes to run in or yaktrax. I have a pair of Saucony Perregrine trail shoes that I use for snowy runs on the road/sidewalks...The little extra traction makes a difference. For clothing purposes, my biggest thing is always make sure my noggin and hands are warm, and I have something on to block the wind....even a light windbreaker over a thermal can be the difference between a good run and a miserable run.


                  Andres- congrats on the half!!!


                  Iamdissapoint- We are definitely similar profile wise, I think my first sub-19 came about a month prior to my first sub-3. It's still funny to me that I am endurance tilted...I never ran distance until 2010-11, before that was track in high school and college, never XC or anything. I always had the speed/power but no patience for endurance and distance. Then I decided to try distance and took years to mold myself into someone who would rather run a marathon than a 5k anyday! Though, I do think my speed came back faster postpartum than my endurance did, I'm FINALLY starting to feel that base building.


                  Boston Runners- Seems like quite a few running this year, I won't be running but I will be there cheering! We're getting into town Saturday and should be there till Tuesday. Anyone local to the area that isn't running the race, I'll be needing a long that weekend and may need to pick your brain about where to do it (we're staying in Burlington)


                  Eric/Cyberic- Welcome! I have to put my tidbit in about miles/volume not being the be all end all for marathon training... my sub-3 came off a 49 mpw avg. Quality over quantity not always a bad thing and actually works better for some people. Something to consider. (with that said though, I am looking to up my mileage a bit this go around but still focusing a bit more on quality)


                  Kram/Mark- Thanks! I know I CAN get back to where I was before my daughter but at the same time I'm trying to look at it as a fresh start too if that makes sense. Life so much different now and that isn't a bad thing, if anything makes it more fun figuring out the best way to get to the times I want! Nothing like a good challenge!  Half 4 weeks out from Toledo sounds like a great plan! I have a few friends running Toledo this year, I have heard good things about it.


                  JTReeves- We had the weird weather last week too here in Upstate NY. Wed/Thursday nights I ran in 50 degrees and rain. Friday was 60 all day, 30 by the time I started running at 5pm, and it was sleeting by the time I finished. We got over a foot of snow Friday into Saturday too. What tune-up half are you going to run before your March marathon?


                  OnceADCV- XT/biking in combo with running can be a great way to build the base and aerobic power without the excessive run pounding on the joints. I did that method for a few years, It worked well for me. I lean more towards run centric these last few years but bike was always a good supplement or backup when need be.


                  My week last week:

                  Mon 5 Miles 8:18 avg Easy mill miles after work 1-4% incline variation
                  Tues 7 Miles 7:06 avg  12 x 2 min @ 10k effort (6:15ish)
                  Wed 5 Miles 8:26 avg Recovery
                  Thurs 5.2 Miles  8:10 avg Easy + 5 x strides
                  Fri 6.2 Miles 7:34 avg  15 x 45 seconds (5:50 avg)
                  Sat 4.2 Miles 8:34 avg Snowy recovery
                  Sun 15.1 Miles 8:15 avg Easy Treadmill + Football Playoff watching
                  Total 48 Miles    

                  Not a bad week for me right now, highest mileage week since before I had my daughter.


                  ETA: Here's my strava link https://www.strava.com/athletes/10764238

                  Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

                  Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)


                  Next Up: Erie Marathon




                  Mr MattM

                  Older Than I Used To Be

                    Well, hell...


                    What am I gonna do this year?


                    I'm Younger Than That Now


                      Lela - thanks for the tips and yes I should've mentioned I'll wear trail shoes!  I've got a trusty pair of ASICS Trabuco's.  Don't wear ASICS much these days but still like those trail shoes (I wore various Trabuco's for 7 or 8 seasons of field hockey!).

                      5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:58 (Nov-19) | 10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) 

                      HM: 1:10:46 (Nov-19) | FM: 2:57:36 (Oct-17)

                      Last race: Bays Night of 5's 5000m, 20 Dec, 15:39 (PB)

                      Up next: Southern Lakes Half Marathon, 4 Apr

                      "CONSISTENCY IS KING"


                        Hi all, is this group intended for those who are currently or previously sub 3 or for those aspiring to run sub 3 in 2018?  I haven't read every post but from scanning it looks like everyone here is already at sub 3 level.

                        Elite Jogger

                          Hi all, is this group intended for those who are currently or previously sub 3 or for those aspiring to run sub 3 in 2018?  I haven't read every post but from scanning it looks like everyone here is already at sub 3 level.


                          No rules. Run.

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


                            Thanks for the tip Lela094.

                            In the winter, don't be a slave to your running pace


                              JTReeves- We had the weird weather last week too here in Upstate NY. Wed/Thursday nights I ran in 50 degrees and rain. Friday was 60 all day, 30 by the time I started running at 5pm, and it was sleeting by the time I finished. We got over a foot of snow Friday into Saturday too. What tune-up half are you going to run before your March marathon?


                              Lela: My half is the Icebreaker International in East Meadow, NY. There is a marathon and half, and turns out the marathon is the North American leg of the Triple 7 Quest (7 marathons/7 continents/7 days). So it should be interesting to see some of the folks doing that!


                              BTW, the Saucony Peregrines are also my go-to shoe for trail running or any running that needs good traction; they have great treads. If only they were lighter I would consider racing in them.


                              IAM: Enjoyed reading your race report. Congrats on the win!  I'm REALLY impressed with the 86 year old guy running that.

                              2:52:16 (2018)


                                IAM: Enjoyed your race report.  Hearty congrats on the win and the distance!  Well done!


                                JT: Solid week in what looked to be some wild swings in the weather.  Good luck on the Half coming up!


                                Kram: Really hope the foot behaves itself!

                                Lela:  Nice week.  My wife and I are originally from Lockport, NY which is about an hour west of where you are?  And yes I'm still a Bills/Sabres fan Smile  Will be up there in a few weeks to visit family ...

                                5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 34:30 (11/19)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)