Forums >Racing>Sub 1:30 Half Marathon in 2020
RIP Milkman
Ugh James I keep reminding myself on my runs I need to respond to you, but I never did. Sorry about that. Got a little caught up in the excitement with Flavio's PR. I don't think you'll see a boost right away. I would say you need to see your 12W average go up about 5 miles a week before you start seeing some real benefit. I actually feel worse when I first bump up mileage. Usually takes about 4-6 weeks of that before I feel good again.
Here are my current averages:
12W - 44 (I guess 3 weeks off will do that to you)
26W - 56
52W - 53
Here is where I want to end up right when the taper starts
12W - 77 (quite the jump!)
26W - 62
52W - 55
Elizabeth - I'll echo what others say. No damn way in hell I could do 3x3 miles at HMP. I just did 2x3 last night and seriously considered giving up about haflway through the second rep. You should look to lock in around 6:45 pace in the race.
Steve - running with your dog while drinking. I knew there was a reason I recommended that you be our leader.
Mark - what was the TDP? I just looked now and it looks like you guys aren't even cracking 60 in dew point! You Kiwis are the worst. This is the rule:
140 TDP: meh, not good racing weather, but fine for training
150 TDP: okay, starting to get humid and gross
160 TDP: awful, only short intervals
170 TDP: only ran in this once in my life, and it was the biggest mistake in my running life
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Hot Weather Complainer
JMac - One minute you're lauding the leader, the next minute trying to make rules...7 weeks after the end of your reign, you still can't let go. And of course, we have our own Kiwi Point which is a whole different scale.
5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:34:49 6/23
2024 Races:
Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55
Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024
Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024
Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024
And of course, we have our own Kiwi Point which is a whole different scale.
Ah good point. Should have included that:
5 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE
10 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE
15 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE
20 KP: It was a nice day today
25 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
30 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
35 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
40 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
45 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
50 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
That's more like it. This must be, what, the 100th time we've had this discussion?
Ah good point. Should have included that: 5 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE 10 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE 15 KP: IT'S SO FREAKING COLD OUTSIDE 20 KP: It was a nice day today 25 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN 30 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN 35 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN 40 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN 45 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN 50 KP: THESE ARE THE WORST CONDITIONS I'VE EVER RUN IN
OK, minor adjustment, otherwise fair. Bear in mind that I don't think either Steve or I have ever complained about cold weather!
5 KP: It was a bit cold and I had to wear gloves
10 KP: It was a nice day today
15 KP: It was a nice day today
Also, I would just like to table my usual reminder that weather down here just feels more extreme than it does in North America. -14C in the mountains earlier this month didn't even feel that cold. On the rare occasions we get below freezing in Auckland, it feels REALLY cold. Similarly I've had hot days here in the mid-20's that felt worse than hot days in Sydney in the mid-30's. Don't ask me to explain it.
For the record the TDP on Wednesday morning was around 140 (I checked because I knew you would pull me up on it).
3,000m: 9:07.7 (Nov-21) | 5,000m: 15:39 (Dec-19) | 10,000m: 32:34 (Mar-20)
10km: 33:15 (Sep-19) | HM: 1:09:41 (May-21)* | FM: 2:41:41 (Oct-20)
* Net downhill course
Last race: Waterfront HM, 7 Apr, 1:15:48
Up next: Runway5, 4 May
"CONSISTENCY IS KING"
3 months til Masters
Are you calculating the rolling average manually or is there a widget that does it on RA?
2023 Goals
Marathon Sub 2:37 (CIM) 2:41:18
10k Sub 35:00 (Victory 10k 34:19)
5k Sub 16:00 (Hot Dash 5k in March (16:48), Brian Kraft in May (16:20), Twilight 5000 in July and August (16:20/16:25 Both heat index 102-103F)
Sub 1:16 Half Marathon City of Lakes Half Marathon 1:15:47)
Sub 56:30 in 10 mile (Twin Cities 10 mile, Canceled due to weather, 56:35 as a workout)
2024 Goals
Sub 2:37 Marathon
Sub 1:15 Half
Sub 34 10k
Sub 16 5k
Recovery Phenom
Wow- thanks for all the confidence boosting. I sometimes feel like I don't know how to give as much in a race. For example, after my last half marathon I ran 76 miles the following week and did a very hard workout the following Thursday. (track 10K alternating between 10K pace and marathon pace). I am either a recovery phenom or I don't give as much as I can.
26.2 x 31 (3:15:34 PR)
13.1 x 35 (1:30:58 PR)
Author of the book Boston Bound
Problem Child
No wonder why JMac doesn't like Kiwi Points. It's too simple unlike a Jack Daniels MITER training pace run. It's not the Mona Lisa, it's just the temperature.
Even easier is:
Cold as FAWK.
Doesn't suck.
Satan's "Sphincter".
I'm currently in the "doesn't suck" weather category. Kind of conducive to marathon training. Thankfully I knocked THAT nonsense off a while ago.
Elisabeth only time I've ever done a 3 mile workout was for marathons and it was only 10 seconds faster than goal marathon pace. You're talking 6:20-30/mi pace for three miles....three times. HARD pass. Hansons does 3x2 and 2x3. No 3x3. You could POSSIBLY do 4x2 miler like JMac has done for marathons but I don't think he does them at half marathon pace. 76 miles AFTER a race.....wow. I'm thinking maybe 20.
Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.
VDOT 53.37
5k18:xx | Marathon 2:55:22
Cobra Commander Keen
Brew - Your math is off by a good 20-30 sec/mi, there! By the way, you should absolutely be able to do 3 miles continuous at ~6:25/mi for a T workout.
E11 - I agree, if you knocked out that workout like that you're easily in sub 90 shape. Likely sub 89. I don't know that I have much advice to give about "giving more" other than that the thought "Keep the pace and the pain ends sooner" has crossed my mind more than once during a race.
5k: 17:58 11/22 │ 10k: 37:55 9/21 │ HM: 1:23:22 4/22 │ M: 2:56:05 12/22
Upcoming Races:
OKC Memorial 5k - April 27
Bun Run 5k - May 4
You could POSSIBLY do 4x2 miler like JMac has done for marathons but I don't think he does them at half marathon pace.
I actually run them even faster, at my equivalent 10 mile pace . The worst workout of any marathon cycle for me is 8 mile warmup followed by 4x2 at that LT pace.
Elizabeth - you definitely aren't giving it your all if you feel that good. I recover VERY well these days and whenever I try even a simple workout 4 days after my half, I always bomb it. My rule in a half is that if you aren't red lining by mile 10, you've taken it too easy.
Steve - we're a family in here, of course we repeat topics. If you want to just be mean to one another with snarky comments, head over to the marathon thread!
DPS - I do everything through Excel (yes I'm a nerd). I find it easier to track and do all of this other fun stuff.
My recovery is pretty solid and I struggle to do any quality in the week following an all-out half marathon. I'm not quite sure I'm redlining by mile 10, but by the 11.5 to 12 mile mark I am generally *just* hanging on.
Intl. correspondent
Rakers - Pfitz is also an excellent book. Make sure to read the intro to understand the why’s so you can adjust accordingly.
Brew - LOL LOL LOL at the reference to the Hansons band. You are the new color commentator of the thread now that Piwi and MickJogger have retired.
Piwi can be found being the poster boy of some surfing TV show in the Off channel.
MJ can be found living the life in the Swiss alps enjoying the fruits of his labor. You know: Fondue, Cheese, Chocolate, etc.
Also the US uses metric for the things that matter like Nasa space shuttles, Coca Cola cans and stuff.
Elizabeth - Ok, from your description, it seems like you are the new Queen of sandbagging.
In preparation for my half I’ve topped the workout at 1x5 miles at HMP. As others have said, 3x3 miles is just nuts!
And after the race I took 3 full days of rest (granted I’m on the weak end of recovery).
Jmac - sorry to hear about the fall. It really sucks. Good on the dogo to stay put.
Also Mark was complaining about the weather on Strava when it was 16C the other day. Just saying…
PRs: 1500 4:54.1 2019 - 5K 17:53 2023 - 10K 37:55 2023 - HM 1:21:59 2021
Up next: some 800m race (or time trials) / Also place in the top 20% in a trail race
Tool to generate Strava weekly
JamesD
What sort of taper are you doing?
Post-1987 PRs: Half 1:30:14 (2019); 10K 39:35 (2019); 5K 19:12 (2017); Mile 5:37.3 (2020)
'24 Goals: consistency, age-graded PRs, half < 1:32
Mother of Cats
In preparation for my half I’ve topped the workout at 1x5 miles at HMP. As others have said, 3x3 miles is just nuts! And after the race I took 3 full days of rest (granted I’m on the weak end of recovery).
Generally, for me, what I can hold for a 4 mile tempo (at true tempo effort) is what I can hold for a half-marathon. I could possibly do 5 miles straight at HMP, but it would be digging deeper than I would want to in a workout.
As for recovery, if the half isn't the end of a training cycle, I usually do something like 2x2 miles or 2 miles, 1 mile about 4-5 days after (assuming nothing hurts). That workout is always significantly slower than it would normally be, though.
Jmac - that sucks about the trip/fall, and the mittens. I got pissed off a few years ago when I ripped a pair without even falling. An idiot looking at his cellphone stepped out right in front of me, and I had to hit the brakes and turn into a brick wall to avoid colliding. In the process, I tore one of my favorite mittens. I was not happy.
I know exactly what sort of concrete slabs you are talking about - most of my morning runs are on a mixture of those and brick sidewalks (which are their own tripping hazard when broken). Catch a toe just right, and down you go. I actually hate falling while running more than I did falling from a horse, even though the latter is riskier. When you fall from a horse, there's enough air time to tuck into a ball and tilt so you hit a shoulder and roll. When you trip while running, there's no time to react.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
I forgot to mention: I like to do 8E + 3T + 8E after my half if it's in the middle of a marathon cycle, which elizabeth's is. It's a lot of miles, but only 3 are quality, so it's not too awful. However, even those threshold miles are slower than they should be.