2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 587 times)


Making a comeback

    I'll catch up on everyone's training in the morning.


    My week was really rough.  The second trimester has come on hard for my wife.  She has been hardly able too keep food or fluids down so I have been doing all my running very late at night or over my lunch break.  I split my long run up on sunday while my son napped and then late after both him and my wife were asleep.  I've gotten about 4-6 hours a sleep a night between taking care of my wife and son and running.


    I'm on full redline city.  We went to the emergency room to get her an IV.  She is feeling much better now and has some meds to help with the nausea.  My week below.  Going to bed to finally get a good night sleep.



    M 4.02 0:29:12 (w/ 6x 100m strides during one of the runs) treadmill
      9 1:02:44 Treadmill
    Tu 10 1:05:36 8 x 0.5mi @ 5:52/mi w/ 0.25mi recovery (2mi w/u & 2mi c/d) the rest at @7 min/mile
    W 11.23 1:21:11 Running the river loop. NEW YEAR!!!!!
    Th 5 0:34:51 treadmill over lunch
      9.04 1:03:45 Rolling hills on treadmill
    F 4.05 0:28:11 Treadmill
      8.58 1:00:00 1 hours easy
    Sa 15.41 1:44:21 Broke up into a 8.27 miles outside and 7.14 on treadmill because Jess was very sick
    Su 12 1:24:36 Easy run/ spent 5 hours in ER with jess this afternoon

    2019 Goal: Run every day Goal: Get to 165 lbs Goal: Get in shape to be able to run 2 marathons in 2020

    2020 Goals:


    HM: 1:18:00

    Marathon: 2:45:00

    New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**


      muffins:  Ha, one of my first races was one of those Scheel's 5Ks.  Regarding the Fargo Marathon, I haven't figured out my summer plans yet, but I may jump into one of their offerings.  I think the 10K or half would be most likely.


      weather:  Impressive to get an 8.5 minute PR at your level.  Congrats!


      dpschumacher:  Yikes.  Best to you and your wife.


      cinnamon:  Hey!    I always tried to follow your progress back in the days of RWOL, but never knew your backstory.  Over the years, I've learned from my own students that there are so many ways one might come out the hand they are dealt.  Kudos to you.  And as for the change, my wife is experiencing that now, and I can attest that it is definitely real!  Question:  Any chance you got your PharmD at the University of Minnesota?  (I worked in the U of M's College of Pharmacy while working on my Master's Degree.)


      My week...7 of 13 in prep for the Black Canyon 100K.  Monday and Tuesday were a bust due to post-blizzard conditions and time with the family, so it was a lighter week than I would have liked...


      M:  Off

      T:  Off

      W:  8M

      T:  9.2M w/8 x 0.18M hard @ 6%, 0.22M recoveries @ -3%

      F:  3.4M

      S:  8.3M

      S:  18M simulation run (Black Canyon is mostly downhill for the first 30 miles, followed by some significant climbs):  first 6 miles alternated between 0.5M @ 0% and -3% incline.  the next 12 miles cycled through a 3-mile sequence: 1M @ 12%, 6% then 0.5M @ 0%, -3%. Then repeat three times, with the uphills reduced by 1% each time.


      Total:  46.9M, elevation gain/loss:  4256'/1701'.

      Elite Jogger


        Any flat course is easier than CIM - the only reason CIM faster is because it is not as dead boring as a flat course like Chicago...  Seriously, btw...


        So JMac, Slammin and the rest fly 1000s of miles to CIM because there are no easier flat courses in NYC or closer to home. 😂


        Weatherboy - Very impressive run and congrats on the AG win!  And running a marathon mostly solo is no joke!


        Cinnamon - Great bio and I’m glad you’re going ahead with Barcelona. 👍

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


          Congrats weather on a a massive PR - 8+ minutes at this level is HUGE! Congrats and yes, you are not done yet - when you are luckier with the weather you definitely gets better time.


           So JMac, Slammin and the rest fly 1000s of miles to CIM because there are no easier flat courses in NYC or closer to home. 😂


          Well... One thing is for sure is the weather, almost guaranteed good one. Lately it also got a good reputation for logistic and good organization. Plus, it's really great field - very fast runners coming here - not big boys fast but general field is pretty fast for a race with only 7,000 runners. Not sure why you constantly picking on CIM but there are plenty of races with easier profiles, downhill races (not Ravel downhill but pretty much all downhill - check findmyamarathon.com site, CIM only ranked as 32 among fastest courses. Ask JMac and Nimmals why they chose CIM - because it is not the fastest you can find and I am telling you, I didn't run a lot of courses but CIM is not that easy - those constant rollers breaking your rhythm a lot. It's hard to explain. But whatever man - I am kind of tired of this shit - but out of my 4 fastest times the fastest I ran was at CIM, then Boston, then CIM, then Boston again and I am telling you - if I had a chance to run Chicago in 2015, I would probably go sub 2:50 too - with good weather it's so much easier to keep steady pace on Chicago course. But again - continue thinking what you are thinking - I have just 13 seconds shy of your PR time running Boston in 60+ oF temps - so, it's not all about CIM - CIM is just 1 hour drive for me from my home and it's a great race. If I continued to live in Chicago I would run it every year too - despite that it is so boring and weather unstable - because it would be local for me!


          My week was still about getting miles - 61.8 total (5 x 11.2x (paces from 8:00 to 9:49) plus 5 miles on a TM). Next week I am planning to add some workouts.


          Brew, forgot to add goals from my planned races:


          02/01 Jed Smith 50K - if I am able to stay in the dead zone paces (7:00-7:40) I will be very happy

          05/09 Quicksilver 100K - would be great to get under 13 hours but main goal is to run under 16 hours - cut time for WSER 100 miles

          12/06 CIM - thinking about sub 2:55 at least - that would be a good base for preparing for Boston 2021

          paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile


          On the roads again...

            Quote from Mikkey on 1/4/2020 at 10:19 AM:

             Cal - We aren’t the oldest dudes on this thread. 😁




            Yeah, you're welcome!


            Yeah, you're all welcome! 

            I'm Neil, and I'm 70.  

            Ancient History: I was born in England, came to Canada with my family at age 6, and moved to the US for my job at 32. I'm retired from business -- 25 years with Ford Motor Co, assignments all round the world, then out on my own for real estate development for ~7 years. I now live in Carlsbad, CA (since 2016). Two adult children well launched on their careers -- a son in Florida, who can run but prefers other sports, and a daughter in Ottawa, Canada, who runs occasionally.

            After HS track and XC, I took a 28-year break from running. I played competitive tennis, then squash (even more so), and stayed in pretty fair shape. At age 45, living in Valencia, Spain, some co-workers got me running again, inviting me to join a "Club Athletico Ford" run -- which turned out to be 16k. I completed it., and within two weeks, I was hooked. Since then I've run about 15 marathons (5 Bostons) and a lot -- hundreds -- of shorter races. I coached HS track and XC for ~6 years in the small Montana town where I had a development, and have coached some runners individually for a number of years. I've been around RWOL/RT forums since 1997, when I was training for my first marathon. Some of you know me from those forums -- my handle was usually longboat. 

            More Recent History: I managed the 3:30 Marathon thread here in 2015 (I think), but dropped out when my running started sliding off a cliff later that year. That trend continued until mid-2018, when we finally figured out why. Somehow, I'd developed atrial fibrillation (A-fib -- a heart problem that essentially short ciruits the atria, the top chambers, so they pump almost nothing to the ventricles), and it had been there for quite a while. That usually goes with overweight, high cholesterol, high blood pressure, partial blockages, etc.... I had none of those. But aging endurance athletes may also be susceptible. I've discovered -- and of course we bitch very loudly about it (yeah, I know, "OK, boomer!"). A heart workup in 2016 gave me an all-clear, but it missed the A-fib, which may have been only occasional then.

            By 2018 it was chronic. I could run only 1/4 mile before stopping to rest. Once diagnosed, they tried drug therapy to get rid of it, with little success, and the drugs were horrible -- energy-sapping, as bad as the A-fib.  In early 2019 I had an ablation, catheter surgery that runs a tube into the heart and zaps all the short-circuits that cause A-fib. I still took some drugs in decreasing doses while recovering, but showed no signs of A-fib, and started running more. Last September, I got off the drugs completely -- instant energy boost!
            In October, I ran my first race, a 10k while on vacation in Scotland. It went well -- not "fast" but without breaks, finishing top 1/4 of the field.

            And the Future: Touch wood -- I'm BACK! Running was almost taken away, now it's a brand new gift! In 2020, I hope to build up enough mileage to run a BQ marathon this year -- and kick some ass in my new age-group! Doubt if I'm going much below 4 hours now, but 4:00 would be a 20 minute qualifier.

            Brew -- (my, you've come a long way from the 3:30 thread -- congrats on your sub-3) Put me down tentatively for Missoula, end of June, sub-4. 
            Weather -- Congrats on your big PR!  


            “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

            Elite Jogger


              Well... One thing is for sure is the weather, almost guaranteed good one. Lately it also got a good reputation for logistic and good organization. Plus, it's really great field - very fast runners coming here - not big boys fast but general field is pretty fast for a race with only 7,000 runners. Not sure why you constantly picking on CIM but there are plenty of races with easier profiles, downhill races (not Ravel downhill but pretty much all downhill - check findmyamarathon.com site, CIM only ranked as 32 among fastest courses. Ask JMac and Nimmals why they chose CIM - because it is not the fastest you can find and I am telling you, I didn't run a lot of courses but CIM is not that easy - those constant rollers breaking your rhythm a lot. It's hard to explain. But whatever man - I am kind of tired of this shit - but out of my 4 fastest times the fastest I ran was at CIM, then Boston, then CIM, then Boston again and I am telling you - if I had a chance to run Chicago in 2015, I would probably go sub 2:50 too - with good weather it's so much easier to keep steady pace on Chicago course. But again - continue thinking what you are thinking - I have just 13 seconds shy of your PR time running Boston in 60+ oF temps - so, it's not all about CIM - CIM is just 1 hour drive for me from my home and it's a great race. If I continued to live in Chicago I would run it every year too - despite that it is so boring and weather unstable - because it would be local for me!



              Yep I get why YOU run CIM every year as it’s local to you and it’s the same reason I run easy London course Smile

              5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)


              Taper Czar

                I promise I’ll join this week. I’ve been stuck in Asia with flight cancellations so Boston 2020 training is on hold until I get back home.


                Did want to address Andres since he did my workouts: really well done! I”m not surprised how much those last 2 hurt. First, they always do. Second, I’d say your pace started creeping up in those second 2 miles, which happens all th time, and it can really make the final 2 suck.


                Regarding final workouts, I’d say 3x2 miles is way too much 10 days out, which is probably when you’ll do this final workout. I really like Daniels goofy mixed run of 3 mile warmup, then 1T + 2M + 1T + 2M, then 2 mile cooldown. My favorite part of this workout is that it’s 6 miles of continuous work, which is really good to get in with 10 days to go, yet it’s not overly taxing. You’ve done all the grinding interval work, it’s time to glide on down to the marathon and not push it. You’ve had such an amazing cycle, don’t blow it with a “big” workout 10 days out. This workout also can be a huge confidence booster, as I usually find the M paces in those runs to be easier than I expect, because you’re so used to just taking walking breaks after T that you go in thinking “how is marathon pace a rest??” But I actually find that my marathon pace speeds up more than I want and I have to work at keeping it “easy”


                If you want to keep it more simple, I’d do something more like 6-8 continuous at MP. Then a 90 minute long run 7 days out, and you’re good to go.

                5K: 16:51 (8/19)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 


                Next Race: Whatever COVID-19 will allow me to run 

                From the Internet.

                  Few weeks in a row of race Saturday - long run Sunday - speed Monday wore me down juuuust a bit too much and am managing a hip thing now :C Womp womp.


                  48 miles last week:


                  M - club workout, 400/400/200 x3 followed by one 400/200. 89/88/42, 85/85/40, 86/83/40, 84/39. Slow on the first set but the effort was in line with the slower pace (88-89 felt pretty comfortable, not hard). ~6.3 miles total.


                  Tu - woke up at like 3 AM with shooting pain in left hip. Subsided and I went back to sleep, was OK to run 7 easy miles later. ID'd some spots to focus on rolling in both legs, hip pain was identical in location but less severe than a similar thing that cropped up for me in June (SI joint area but muscular in nature, not a joint problem). That time, the pain came on suddenly and had me limping when it started up, so I was already in better shape this time around. Dug out PT instructions from the previous incident and got to work after the run.


                  W - 5.3 easy miles, hip about the same as Tuesday. Light complaints but nothing really concerning.


                  Th - hip continued to improve; 8 easy miles AM and only felt it a tiny bit at the very end, 3.5 easy PM and didn't bother me at all.


                  F - club workout; figured coaches would be able to pull me out if I looked like I was limping, and it's way easier to bail on a 200m track versus a road workout where I might still have to hobble a few miles home if it popped up late in the run. Started off conservatively and then picked it up a bit at the end when it was clear that the hip was good. 3:05, 3:04, 3:03, 3:03, 3:00 for the 800s, 42-43 for the first 3 200s and then 41, 39. Felt great and cooldown was fine too. 7 miles total.


                  Sa - 4 miles AM totally fine, 4.5 hilly miles PM with friends including 4x10s hill sprint (prob should have skipped those). All good during the run, but woke up the next day a little achy/off again.


                  Su - should have been 13-15 mi long run, but feeling the hip again made me nervous so I opted to do the smart thing and just jogged a little bit to check in, then did some stretching and strength stuff. It wasn't PAINFUL while running, but it was noticeable, if that makes sense, so dropping mileage feels like the smart choice right now. If I try to power through and make it worse, I'm going to be EVEN MORE CRANKY for a much longer time, so I'm trying my very best not to do anything dumb even though just sitting around makes me very antsy, lol.


                  Plan today is to jog a short loop around my neighborhood a few times and see how that goes, stick to flatter routes the next few days if I don't have any trouble just to be on the safe side. If I still feel the hip, I'll probably hit the pool for some pool running later in the afternoon or tomorrow, and make either PT or massage appointments or both.


                    Really amazing to see how popular this combined thread is right now!  Only downside will be keeping up from week to week this year!  Thanks for the encouragement and support on here!


                    Jacksonville Bank Marathon Race Recap:

                    Pre-race: Drove up Saturday AM and let my wife do some shopping while I mostly stayed off me feet.  Was kind of a nightmare as I stayed at the official race hotel (an Embassy 10 minutes away) and I unfortunately ended up with about 1.5 hours of continuous sleep the Saturday night due to a combination of things.  There were loud drunks (coming from a bar) that were making noise to at least 1 or 2 AM, the AC unit kept clicking on and off, and the bed was simply uncomfortable.  I never sleep that great the night before a big race anyways and I got decent sleep the last 2-3 nights beforehand so hopefully this wasn't much of an issue.  The hotel also screwed up the bus transportation for family members to the finish line so my wife missed me finishing as well so they will not be getting a good review!


                    Based on my volume, workouts, and more importantly recent races (34:30 10K and 1:15:53 HM) during my training block figured I was in decent enough shape to hold 6 flat (or just under) if I got good enough weather conditions for this race.  The weather gods mostly answered my requests as literally the day before we had temperatures and dew points both into the 70's!  A strong cold front came through late Saturday afternoon and temperatures and dew points dropped like a rock overnight.  Looks like race start temperatures were right around 42-43, but smashrun did give me a wind chill of 33 so easily the coldest we have been all year!   I was a bit concerned about the winds along the St John's river (course runs mostly out and back north to south).  Sustained winds were never that strong, it was just the unfortunate timing of the direction in the last 10K.  I'd guess there were occasionally gusts probably in the 15-20 mph range from the NW.  Plan going out was to run by feel and try to pick up the pace anytime I felt the downwind perhaps pushing me and then just hold on or hopefully run with some others (this didn't happen though) when coming back into the breeze.  Only slight downside about the cold temperatures is that I didn't get a run or two to acclimate.  There was a decent burn in my lungs the entire race as I simply have not run in anything like this all winter!  I ended up wearing gloves, a hat, beanie cap, shorts, arm sleeves, a singlet, and then a throw away long sleeve shirt that I ditched around mile 10.  Could have gotten rid of that earlier but I was not all that warm yet.  Ended up throwing the beanie and gloves somewhere after the half turnaround point as well.


                    Gun went off with plenty of people to run with early on as the 5K, HM, and FM runners went off together.  Yes this is a smaller race and I would likely benefit from a bigger field of runners at some bigger city events in the future.  Nothing significant of note in the first 5K other than the first 1.5 miles were into the breeze and then we looped around before heading back to the south where the 5K would finish.  First mile felt a bit rough pace wise, but this was likely due to not being fully warmed up yet.  Cold air felt refreshing, but as I mentioned breathing was a bit of a challenge due to the drastic change in moisture (dew point was in the upper 20s).  Came through the first 5K right on pace in 18:36 and once past the first 5K really settled into a nice rhythm clocking off mid to upper 5:5x miles on my watch.  I didn’t notice much of the wind here, but it must have been at my back.   Came through the 10K in 37:07 so I was just under 6 flat pace (which was my goal).  This was also where the two runners in front of me took a left turn as it turned out they were running the HM and then I was unfortunately all alone or I thought I would be anyways.  Turns out a guy came up behind me just before mile 10 and he was flying, easily in the sub 5:5x range at this point.  Thought about going with him, but the pace was too quick at that point in the race.  Turns out he finished just 2 minutes ahead of me after running the first 5-6 miles very conservatively for him.  Mile 12 the course took a turn directly to the west and I caught my first glimpse at a slight headwind and apparently slowed to about 6:10 pace.


                    Came through the HM feeling decent at 1:18:46 and knew the next 13.1+ were likely going to be a challenge, but was hoping the trees would block most of the stronger wind gusts.  This held true for the most part until about 21 mile although I did struggle to maintain low 6 pace even though the effort level felt right.  My last sub 6 mile turned out to be mile 14. There were a few out and back sections on the southern part of the course where I got to see the leaders and where I stood in the pack.  Several were well ahead with no chance of catching, but I saw I few that were really struggling and it turns out I would pass 2 of them in the last 10K even though I would eventually slow down.  Through about mile 17 I was still within range of 6 flat pace averaging right around 6:02  for the race, although I was already struggling to maintain pace at this point.  Slowed down further to now to 6:03 pace by mile 20 and reminded myself that it was just a 10K tempo left in the bank.  I know the wind had an impact at this point, but just I kept plugging away and really wasn't concerned.  Then miles 21-25 were easily the toughest miles I faced in some time as I turned almost directly into the northwest wind.  I was seriously questioning my life choices at this point as I surprisingly got legit got cold Smile  Looks like my HR data shows a drop as well before returning to race effort over the last few miles.  What felt like a gentle breeze with some stronger wind gusts felt like I was running into a wall!  Good thing is that I felt like I was running much slower than what I was clocking on the splits falling into the low 6:2x range.  This was also where I started to pass some of the slower HM folks.  I also passed a FM guy who was unfortunately limping at this point who I believe was in first or second place through the half.  Took in a last ditch gel at mile 23 (usually never do this past about 20 miles) and felt like I recovered just a bit and actually increased my pace ever so slightly over the last 5K.  Again this was into the wind at this point so the effort level went up here.  By this point I knew I was close to 2:3x, but figured I lost too much time over the last several miles and I would likely end up just short.  Finish was on the track (which was neat) and I was able to hammer the last 0.32 miles at mid-5:3 pace once I saw the finish line.  Official time was 2:40:30 and I had 26.37 on the watch for 6:06 pace overall so even though I positive split this race by close to 3 minutes I’d argue it was close to an even effort overall.


                    Some takeaways:

                    • Yes I could have been faster and my training was indicative of something well into the 2:3x range, but I’m not going to hang my head on an 8 minute PR!  Marathons are just plain hard not matter the fitness level!
                    • Even with the wind this is still some of the best FM race conditions I have had. Rarely are conditions ever going to be perfect. It easily could have been a crap show if I got the weather the day before.  At the end of the day the wind wasn’t all that horrible.  It was just the timing of those stronger gusts when things are dark anyways.
                    • Thinking back maybe I should have tried to push the pace even a bit more over the first half when I felt the best?
                    • Yes the race is small, but based on the previous few years was thinking I’d at least have 4-5 folks to run with. Turns out there were 8-10 in the low mid 2:4x range instead just behind me!  As highlighted might be time to find a much bigger race similar to CIM, but training will be hotter here.
                    • For the fun back and forth discussion on this board even without the headwind to finish the race it was going to be hard for me to beat JMac’s recent PR!  I still argue his time was still much faster than both of his pre-pace indicators.  This guy just executes like no other in the FM and will likely get much faster with more volume.  Based on my own experience to easily break 2:40 would have liked to have seen a sub 75 minute HM.  I do believe I’m there now with a well tapered HM though.  Personally for me I feel like I execute best based on my fitness in the 5K  to HM range. I do argue that Jmac should easily be a 1:14 HM guy now Smile
                    • The Vaporfly’s did a number on my feet yet again. Maybe they are much too narrow for my toe box? They were downright painful at several points over the last half.  
                    • Feel like I have found the sweet spot in my training volume and level of difficulty in workouts this cycle compared to the previous 2-3 FM blocks. I did a much better job of limiting my EZ pace, but could probably even scaled that back some more, especially with the heat.
                    • Finally, I still wonder how much I would benefit from resetting either in the off-season or between cycles.  Like 7-10 days of no running?

                    5K: 16:15 (3/20)  |  10K: 33:40 (4/20)  |  HM: 1:15:53 (12/19)  |  FM: 2:40:30 (1/20)


                      Many medications take a period of time to clear your system - even after any positive effect is gone.  Most recreational runners I would not think too hard about it.



                      Are you cheating with your allergy or your asthma medication?  I use an albuterol inhaler for pool-induced asthma, and my understanding is more than 4 hits in a 12 hour period would be considered illegal. 

                      Long dead ... But my stench lingers !




                        cinnamon girl - If you are willing -> What area of Wisconsin ?


                        I am a 1987 graduate of DC Everest - Grew up in the southeast corner of marathon county

                        Long dead ... But my stench lingers !






                          As my 1st step back into my fall attempt at a sub 3 - I have signed up for the York (PA) marathon May 17th with a goal of sub 3:20


                          A lot of work to reach that goal

                          -> Lose 45 pounds


                          Currently I do not believe I could run a sub 4 hour marathon ... but as I rebuild my aerobic engine and lose weight I think it will come back in chunks.

                          Long dead ... But my stench lingers !




                          Stotan Disciple

                            Weather Congratulations on a great race. I had a similar feeeling but that big of a PR is amazing agree with Cinnamon.


                            Andres Looking forward to see your results and good luck.  JMAC was right  nothing much doing the final 10 days out.  I have been having an athelete plan out her final 2 weeks (she'll have done the last 4 actually)  and she had 2x 4 Miles on the Saturday 8 days from Houston . I was like NOPE. Redo it we talked about it and she resubmitted her proposed weeks. Nothing you can do to gain fitness but a lot can be done to lose fitness.


                            My week:

                            Activities for Dec 30, 2019 - Jan 5, 2020
                            80.0mi - 11h 27m - 2,087ft


                            Date ▼ Activity Course Type Distance Duration Pace Actions
                            1/5/2020 Run   Default 14.0 mi 1:45:58 7:35
                            1/4/2020 Run   Fartlek 16.3 mi 2:06:18 7:47
                            1/3/2020 Run   Default 10.0 mi 1:26:42 8:40
                            1/2/2020 Run   Default 9.3 mi 1:23:01 8:56
                            1/1/2020 Run   Default 12.5 mi 1:53:10 9:05
                            12/31/2019 Run   Default 11.2 mi 1:43:42 9:14
                            12/30/2019 Run   Default 6.2 mi 56:47 9:08

                            Thinking should be done first, before training begins.

                            Running Problem


                              Thanks for taking over the tracking! I'm also glad you've already got the first story of 2020 lined up for Marathon Investigation.


                              How did this go so unnoticed by so many people? Classic move reporting him JMac. As a hopefuly for the 125th Boston Marathon I appluad your commitment to keeping the cheaters out of the race. Also, your sense of humor.


                              I'm Christi and i read through this thread and realized you guys are all of the old sub 3 guys!!


                              I'm looking forward to reading about everyone's training, should be interesting!!

                              I self identify as a 3:56 marathoner trapped in a 2:59 body. People's paces shouldn't matter, nor should miles per week, and training/injuries/mental breakdowns are going to happen to fast people and "slow" people. Doesn't make a 26.2 mile journey any easier or harder. I think my Sub 3 was my best race after all the input I've received from forums and probably one of the hardest not to speed up and aim for something bigger then blow up and miss the goal. I lurked in the Sub 3 thread for months before taking their advice and executing.


                              Ancient History
                              Brew -- (my, you've come a long way from the 3:30 thread -- congrats on your sub-3) Put me down tentatively for Missoula, end of June, sub-4.  

                              Oh....my....gawd! 3:30. Fire up the WABAC machine. Wow...I thought I had a different name back then. Jeeze...I was only there for a minute it seems like before jumping into 3:20. Glad you made the swap here. Jeeze that's back to my first CIM (2nd marathon) when I just didn't want to die like I did in my first. If you'd have told me "You'll be a sub 3 marathoner in 4 years" I'd have called you a liar.


                              cal OH great....2:55....my NYC marathon qualifying time. I thought I'd be able to run faster and get away from you but apparently you just want to chat my ear off. Maybe this time I'll stick with you if I'm in CIM 2020. We can do one of those finishes where we cross the finish line together to claim 257th place.


                              muffins as someone who recently quit drinking like 7+ months ago I understand the struggle. I've been told an alcoholics worst hangover is their next one. Also getting drunk today is just stealing happiness from tomorrow. It isn't easy, and it kind of sucks, but I make (funny to me) inappropriate jokes/comments about drinking. Other people's drinking doesn't bother me. I actually enjoy hanging out and watching people drink knowing I'll feel 100% tomorrow for my run. I don't really miss it that much and sometimes I'll ask my wife "Know what sounds great right now?" and answer with random stuff like "cocaine" or tell her "listen, someone in this relationship needs to have a good HARD buzz for it to work. I'll step up if you're not willing to." She understands me for some odd reason.


                              As for me....I'll keep this short and simple unlike any race (and traveling) story I've ever told.


                              35 (I think) male in Nevada. Born and raised Californian (the worst kind too...Bay Area trash) who wrestled in high school, got fat after college, and decided to start running. I said I'd never run a marathon and at the time I started running it was just to lose weight. I had a habit of starting a hobby, getting REALLY into it then quitting it a few years later so when I started running and my (now) wife asked when I'd quit I told her "When I run the Boston Marathon" because I never thought I'd run a marathon. I've run 7 including blowing up BAD at Chicago, and having an unforgettable 3:05:22 at Revel Mt. Charleston. Watch the guy in the blue jacket. I'm the shirtless guy. I don't recall a short moment after crossing the line...oh and I'd literally STOPPED running about 50 feet from the finish line. This is the only marathon my father has seen me finish. I went to medical for a while, vomited, and only cared about getting my finisher medal.  I've done an ultra, signed up for a 50 miler (because I hate myself) and have TWICE PR'd the half marathon in the first half of a marathon PR all while having trouble breaking 20 in the 5k....so take that for what it's worth when someone says you're doomed to blow up if you PR the half in a full, especially the first half. I just PR'd CIM on some training based kind of on the advice from this forum. I'm also not a JD Fanboy like SOME people here. 


                              I'm not signed up for marathon(s) (yet) for 2020. CIM is the day after my son's birthday. I think I have enough "less than imaginary" friends participating in the Cheaters Marathon 2020 that I could work out the logistics of missing packet pickup and still get my bib.


                              Oh and I'm not surprised it took less than a week into 2020 to start bagging on CIM. Boston is more downhill so it's obviously easier. Might as well be one of those Revel races compared to CIM.



                              EDIT: Race table updated.

                              2020 Goal: Figure out the problem.


                              Mother of Cats

                                Weather - great report.  As for some of your musings - of course it's hard to know for certain, but my sense is that going out harder in the first half would have just given you less to fight the wind with in the second half.


                                About taking the gel at 23 - I'm sure it was of benefit.  There's been research that just getting sugar into your mouth can provoke a positive response from your body, independent of the benefit from digesting it.


                                As for targeting a different marathon, I'd put Houston on your radar for next year.  That lets you train in November/December just like this race did, and it's a fast and flat course, and you'll have many more people to run with at your pace.  For people like me, who are now acclimated to running in the 20s and 30s, Houston can be a risk of being a bit too relatively warm.  But for you, I'd think that even a somewhat warm day at Houston would feel great to you.




                                Good to see all the new names, and also returning names and backgrounds!  This should be a good year for marathon race training!


                                *** dumping off my week:

                                60 miles, 27 "miles" of pool-running, and 1000 yards of swimming
                                M: yoga and 10 "miles" pool-running.
                                T: In the morning, 3 mile shakeout (9:07). In the evening, 4 mile warmup, 4 mile race in 24:55, 3 mile cooldown.
                                W: 3 miles very easy (9:07), yoga, 3 miles very easy (8:58), and then 6 "miles" pool-running.
                                Th: Lifting, core, and 11 "miles" pool-running
                                F: 5.5 miles very easy (9:31 - not a typo - rainy, dark, awful visibility), yoga, 6.5 miles very easy (8:56), drills and four uphill/downhill strides.
                                Sa: 17 miles, including a workout of 2x5 miles at marathon effort. Split 33:42 (6:49/6:47/6:44/6:43/6:39 - 6:44 pace) and 33:45 (6:42/6:48/6:49/6:45/6:41 - 6:45 pace). One mile float in 7:42 in between. Followed with injury prevention work and 1000 yards recovery swimming.
                                Su: 7 miles very easy (9:18), drills, two strides, upper body weights/core, and 4 miles very easy (8:57)


                                I raced a four miler on Tuesday night (NYE), and surprised myself with a new four mile PR and third female overall (I was not expecting either).  Yes, I essentially ran this four miler at the same pace I ran Broad Street 10 Miler last year, so it might seem surprising that I'm happy with the race.  But...this race is historically a slow one, and running one's 10 mile race pace on it seems about right and consistent with how everyone else runs here.


                                I still don't know for sure what sort of shape I'm in, but I think I'm in better shape than I expected.  So yay.


                                Race report for the four miler here.

                                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.


                                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.