2020 Marathon Training and relevant COVID 19 discussion echo chamber (Read 700 times)

The shorter races are where I started and then just enjoyed the training of marathons, did a Hanson cycle and stopped investing in races other than a goal race. I’m also extremely “not accepting” of being a sub 3 marathoner so being able to POSSIBLY run a 6:17 pace for a 10k is crazy. I’m thinking of just straight up marathon cycle through December then taking a few weeks off for holidays and back at it when the weather sucks. I think at one point in my running life i was all about time trials pointing towards a goal and now I’ve switched to workouts and paced training runs supporting the goal so I was just wondering. A 10k probably sucks WAAAAAAAY more than a marathon or 6.5 hour ultra.

The shorter races are where I started and then just enjoyed the training of marathons, did a Hanson cycle and stopped investing in races other than a goal race. I’m also extremely “not accepting” of being a sub 3 marathoner so being able to POSSIBLY run a 6:17 pace for a 10k is crazy. I’m thinking of just straight up marathon cycle through December then taking a few weeks off for holidays and back at it when the weather sucks. I think at one point in my running life i was all about time trials pointing towards a goal and now I’ve switched to workouts and paced training runs supporting the goal so I was just wondering. A 10k probably sucks WAAAAAAAY more than a marathon or 6.5 hour ultra.

I’ve always thought the 10k is the worst suck race, especially if you start out at 5k pace. 😁

Seriously, you are selling yourself waaay short and probably could’ve run a 38min 10k last year during CIM training. But iirc, you don’t do many tune-up races, so....

 

12x400 today aiming for a 6:00/mi pace (82-84 seconds) was a bout as bad as it needed to be to get me into gear. Hit a low point where I didn't think I'd make the whole workout and just worked right though it. Quitting is a contagious virus and I'm not catching it this early in marathon training season.

 

 

EDIT : 2

Race predictors....are they accurate? Do people put a lot of stock in them other than JMac and Darkwave?

http://www.runningfoundation.com/Pace_Charts/RaceTimePredictorChart.html.htm

https://lukehumphreyrunning.com/hmmcalculator/race_equivalency_calculator.php

 

Both of these say I need to run a sub 39 10k to support a sub 3 marathon. 6:17/mi pace seems BLAZING fast. STUPID fast. Are these based off being in shape to race the distance on the day of? There is a local flat out and back 10k organized (unofficial race due to COVID 19) measured by GPS and I've run the course enough to say "yeah it's a 6.2ish mile loop). 6:17 just seems UNGODLY fast and I've actually run a sub 3 marathon (on a downhill course) once. I WAS thinking about heading to the 10k for a time trial type event but after looking at the time I have to hit it seems ridiculous to even try.

First, I'm not quite sure what the 82-84 second target for 400's was based on. You don't need to be running interval paces that fast for a sub-3 marathon. Daniels' tables (download from http://www.electricblues.com/html/runpro.html) show 88 sec "I" (for Interval) pace at 88 seconds for 2:59. If you were trying to do the "R" pace at 82 sec, 12 reps would be much too difficult a workout. If you came that close, you're in better shape than you think.

The race equivalent tables (they are NOT "predictors") are generally fairly accurate, but the proviso is always "when equally trained for both events" that you're trying to compare. On the old RWOL, we used to try to help marathoners set their pace based on shorter races plus their training, long runs, etc. It was generally agreed that equally trained usually required 70 mpw for the marathon, or faster shorter race equivalents with less mileage. 
For you, the sub-3 would have looked ungoldly fast a couple of years ago when you were running shorter races. Looking beck now, the 10k times probably look that way because you haven't trained for that distance and you're thinking of when you last ran them. Maybe you're not capable of a sub-39 110k now, but if you're able to go sub-3 marathon, the 10k is in your range -- with a little tra\ining.

Jmac's suggestion of a training cycle for shorter races is a good one. It will help you maximize the marathon training when you start winding up for Boston next spring... (or whenever). Burnout could be a problem if you try two marathon training cycles in a row with little variety. Racing a 10k does suck, but less than a marathon, and a fast 10k does support the faster marathon.

I was wrong on the times. They were 90 seconds with 95 second recovery.

edit: I also forgot I had the jack Daniels book ( the Bible ) until much later in the day.

 

Have you ever thought of being your own coach and calling yourself Coach Running Problem?  If so, then get Brad Hudson’s ‘Run Faster’ book as that is the true runners Bible.

 

https://www.amazon.com/Run-Faster-5K-Marathon-Coach/dp/0767928229

Blasphemy. Daniels is king.

No.

I mean, not if it is the couch to 5k app that has its roots in the old coolrunning/kick sites. But people do keep reusing the name.

Brad Hudson's Run Faster was all the rage about 5-8 years ago (the book itself is 12 years old now).

 

JTReeves - I ran that Harrisburg mile on Wednesday.  The Covid 19 restrictions/changes worked well, and from what I hear were considered a success.  My hunch/hope is that the marathon may indeed go ahead, with a rolling start.  I see that as of today they updated the site for the September half-marathon, indicating that it is happening.  My hunch is that they were using the mile as a test run for the half.

 

As for the mile?  I ran an official time of 6:55 (not a typo) after taking a wrong turn.  Honestly, I am fairly certain I wasn't going to even break 6 without the wrong turn - combination of lack of fitness, being a bit careful of the hamstring, and a course that wasn't the fastest.  Still totally worth it to go up there - it felt so delightfully normal to be racing.

 

(race report here)

DW: Sorry to hear about the wrong turn but I'm glad it was a good experience overall. Now I'm wondering about course markings and personnel guiding runners for the marathons. With bare-bones staffing due to COVID plus rolling starts, I could imagine a scenario where a runner may be quite isolated and if the course is not well-marked could get off track.

Good to hear Harrisburg is moving ahead with the half next month; that bodes well for them doing the marathon (unless the half is a total disaster...).