2024 Advanced Training and Racing Thread (still competitive jerks) (Read 271 times)

Mikkey


Mmmm Bop

     

    I've never specialized or focused on the marathon, so this is strictly personal experience.  I rarely ran more than 2 hours, 2:15 at the most and still ran sub-3:00, but that was when I was in the open division and a lot faster at shorter distances.  I've also never been an advocate of MP paced runs of any distance.  Perhaps it's my inexperience, but I've never been able to predict my actual MP with any accuracy, so I've always gone more by perceived effort.  So called MP runs might have been overkill in any case as I raced much more frequently then at 5K to HM distances than most people seem to now.


    Which means your input is void. You ran a 2:59 marathon which was well below expected compared to your shorter distance PRs.

    5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

    wcrunner2


    Are we there, yet?


      Which means your input is void. You ran a 2:59 marathon which was well below expected compared to your shorter distance PRs.

       

      No, it means that I recognized where my strengths were and focused on the events where I was best suited.  If anything, it shows that 2 hour runs are adequate if someone not suited to the marathon can run well with that as the upper limit.

       2024 Races:

            03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

            05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
            06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
            10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

       

       

           

      Mikkey


      Mmmm Bop

         

        No, it means that I recognized where my strengths were and focused on the events where I was best suited.  If anything, it shows that 2 hour runs are adequate if someone not suited to the marathon can run well with that as the upper limit.

         

        You literally said that you never focused on the marathon so why do you think your strengths were in shorter distances? Did you ever run consistent weeks at 70mpw before a marathon? If not then seriously just stfu and stick to giving advice on distances that you actually have experience with. 👍

        5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

        DavePNW


          Happy birthday and new AG, DW!

           

          Hey, sorry I’ve been out of touch. I just got off a week on a cruise ship, and not much internet access.

           

           

          The question for the forum: if my ambition is to eventually run a 3:30h marathon, can I get away with long runs that are up to 2hours-ish only? Can those 3 hour jogs be replaced for a slow marathoner with some MP intervals. Maybe there is a magic formula of 65% of race distance should be completed during training or similar.

           

          I think those long runs were really beneficial the last time around - and yet I hated them (did 5 with an average of 3 hours and 29k each). And I was really only running around 80km per week for 3 months.

           

          My copout answer is that there’s no magic formula for any of this stuff. There are many ways to skin a cat, and different things work better for different people. I like to do a mix of 20-22 mile easy pace runs, and 18 with 8-10 MP (continuous segments). Is that the best approach? No idea.

          Dave

          wcrunner2


          Are we there, yet?

             

            You literally said that you never focused on the marathon so why do you think your strengths were in shorter distances? Did you ever run consistent weeks at 70mpw before a marathon? If not then seriously just stfu and stick to giving advice on distances that you actually have experience with. 👍

             

            Yes, I've run 70 mpw before a marathon. My peak mileage year was over 3700 miles. Maybe you don't put any credence to age grading, but it consistently shows my rating dropping gradually as the distance increases from 800m to the HM, then drops off more at distances of 25K and up.  That seems strong enough evidence that my strength lies in the shorter distances.

             

            Meanwhile who appointed you the moderator and determiner of who could comment on what topics?

             2024 Races:

                  03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                  05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                  06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                  10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

             

             

                 


            You big Dosser

              I’m ready to smash the Ukrainian Usyk guy to pieces tomorrow night.

               

              Let’s get ready to rumble!!!

              DavePNW


                 

                Like I mentioned before, there are a LOT of people who focus exclusively on the marathon.
                They only build training plans for the marathon, they only ever taper for the marathon.
                Of course then their results on the shorter races will be sub par.
                How can you run a fast 5k if you don't taper for it, if you don't adjust your training plan to peak for it.
                Or even worse, if you only ever run 5ks in the heat of summer, when you are least likely to run a fast 5k.

                That reminds me of a bit in one of your past race reports:
                "Speed Mutterficker, ever heard of it?" 😂

                 

                 

                 

                This is me. Except the shorter the distance, the higher my AG% result. I guess maybe I’m naturally predisposed to be better at shorter distances? So I could probably improve those times if I focused more on them. But sadly I’m sucked into in the marathon cult.

                Dave

                Mikkey


                Mmmm Bop

                   

                  Yes, I've run 70 mpw before a marathon. My peak mileage year was over 3700 miles. Maybe you don't put any credence to age grading, but it consistently shows my rating dropping gradually as the distance increases from 800m to the HM, then drops off more at distances of 25K and up.  That seems strong enough evidence that my strength lies in the shorter distances.

                   

                  Meanwhile who appointed you the moderator and determiner of who could comment on what topics?

                   

                  What is your best AG marathon %?

                   

                  You have very little experience regarding the marathon. I would never offer any advice about shorter distances because I have no interest in them and they’ve always been tune up races with no taper.

                  5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                  wcrunner2


                  Are we there, yet?

                     

                    What is your best AG marathon %?

                     

                    You have very little experience regarding the marathon. I would never offer any advice about shorter distances because I have no interest in them and they’ve always been tune up races with no taper.

                     

                    Marathon - 71.4
                    800m - 81.9

                     

                    I wouldn't consider 18 completed marathons plus a few DNFs as exactly very little experience.  I would also note that training and racing attitudes have changed considerably since I ran most of my marathons.  We generally ran whatever races were available and convenient without regard to the distance, hence very few of us specialized in the marathon or any particular distance.  There also weren't that many marathons to choose from back then.  I believe there were only 80-100 held in the entire US when I ran my first marathon.

                     2024 Races:

                          03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                          05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                          06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                          10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                     

                     

                         

                    Mikkey


                    Mmmm Bop

                       

                      Marathon - 71.4
                      800m - 81.9

                       

                       

                      Case closed….800m is your distance…..so keep your mouth shut when it comes to the marathon.

                      5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                      wcrunner2


                      Are we there, yet?

                         

                        Case closed….800m is your distance…..so keep your mouth shut when it comes to the marathon.

                         

                        Seems more like your mind is closed.  Just because the marathon isn't my best (or favorite) distance doesn't make me ignorant or uninformed about it.  If you don't agree with my statements simply say why and your reasoning for disagreeing.  So far you've offered no valid reason for disagreeing other than belittling my marathon background because it isn't my best or favorite distance to race.

                         2024 Races:

                              03/09 - Livingston Oval Ultra 6-Hour, 22.88 miles

                              05/11 - D3 50K, 9:11:09
                              06/17 - 6 Days in the Dome 12-Hour, 35.82 miles
                              10/12 - Hainesport 12-Hour

                         

                         

                             

                        Mikkey


                        Mmmm Bop

                           

                          Seems more like your mind is closed.  Just because the marathon isn't my best (or favorite) distance doesn't make me ignorant or uninformed about it.  If you don't agree with my statements simply say why and your reasoning for disagreeing.  So far you've offered no valid reason for disagreeing other than belittling my marathon background because it isn't my best or favorite distance to race.

                           

                          You are a failed marathoner and did well at shorter distances when you were younger….the end. 👍

                          5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)

                          SteveChCh


                          Hot Weather Complainer

                            Welcome back Mikkey, it did seem like your wife took over your account for a while...

                             

                            18 marathons is certainly enough to provide advice or experience.  One is enough.

                             

                            Of course, if you look at my signature you'll see why you shouldn't listen to me....

                            5km: 18:34 11/23 │ 10km: 39:10 8/23 │ HM: 1:26:48 9/23 │ M: 3:29:54 6/24

                             

                            2024 Races:

                            Motorway Half Marathon February 25, 2024 1:29:55

                            Christchurch Half-Marathon April 21, 2024 1:27:34

                            Selwyn Marathon June 2, 2024 DNF

                            Wellington Marathon June 23, 2024 3:29:54

                            Hagley Park Run July 20, 2024

                            Dunedin Half Marathon September 15, 2024

                            Timaru Ten October 26, 2024

                            mmerkle


                               

                              You are a failed marathoner and did well at shorter distances when you were younger….the end. 👍

                               

                              That certainly describes me at least. But Mikkey he did explicitly state that he was only sharing experience, not advice. Disagreement makes things interesting but I wouldn't say that I don't want wcrunners input. Anyway you have a good point about making sure your runs are enjoyable (at least to some extent). Do the training you're going to actually do.

                               

                              MickJogger I think you can get a lot done in 2 hours, especially if you throw in some tempo and/or MP. But Dave has a good point, there's always an element of trial and error due to individual differences. Some swear 2 hours is enough, some swear they need 3, who's to say they can't both be correct when it comes to themselves? I think my issue is maybe I still haven't figured out what my body needs during training for a good marathon.

                              Mikkey


                              Mmmm Bop

                                Welcome back Mikkey, it did seem like your wife took over your account for a while...

                                 

                                 

                                Thank you, although I’m not sure if that’s a compliment to me or the wife. 

                                5k - 17:53 (4/19)   10k - 37:53 (11/18)   Half - 1:23:18 (4/19)   Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)