Light AND Cushioned (Read 635 times)

    Every review I've seen says the toe box on the K4 is roomier than the K3. According to Runblogger, Saucony said it's not wider but it's deeper Top to bottom.  Same last.

     

    That's good to hear, thanks!

    Dimitri Minaev


      Talking about Kinvaras... When I bought my first Kinvara 3 last year, I was disappointed to find out that they were a bit tight in the forefoot. It took me about 150 kilometres to discover that when you loosen the lower part of the laces, they magically turn into the best fitting shoes I ever had Smile I had an impression that the free upper that has almost no structure allowed the shoes to grow and to contract as necessary.

        Please update after some experience, I'm interested in this one.  Thanks.

         

        I didn't want to rush to an opinion until I put some miles on them. I've now run over 70 including a 20 miler, 18-20 at MP, daily easy runs, and slow recovery slogs. So for I'm pleased with them. They are trim with no excess fat. They fit my feet well and don't feel overly complicated with overlays poking at me. When you slide them on you can feel the rigid medial post offering stability but it's not over done. Despite feeling firm they are lively and offer a decent amount of cushion when you get moving. Putting them on the scale and seeing the same weight as my Nike Flyknit Lunar's makes me either wonder why the Flyknits aren't lighter or why these aren't heavier. Some shoes make you feel slow when running and some make you feel fast. These make you feel fast.

         

        I figure they will be a regular in my shoe rotation, which is a good sign. If only they weren't so ugly. That ugliness has certainly been a conversation starter at times.

         

        Of course, ymmv.


        Fat butt on couch

           

          I didn't want to rush to an opinion until I put some miles on them. I've now run over 70 including a 20 miler, 18-20 at MP, daily easy runs, and slow recovery slogs. So for I'm pleased with them. They are trim with no excess fat. They fit my feet well and don't feel overly complicated with overlays poking at me. When you slide them on you can feel the rigid medial post offering stability but it's not over done. Despite feeling firm they are lively and offer a decent amount of cushion when you get moving. Putting them on the scale and seeing the same weight as my Nike Flyknit Lunar's makes me either wonder why the Flyknits aren't lighter or why these aren't heavier. Some shoes make you feel slow when running and some make you feel fast. These make you feel fast.

           

          I figure they will be a regular in my shoe rotation, which is a good sign. If only they weren't so ugly. That ugliness has certainly been a conversation starter at times.

           

          Of course, ymmv.

           

          Thanks for the update.  I'd deal with the fugly, currently I am having real problems finding non-fugly shoes.  I typically don't care how shoes look, but most of them now go so far the opposite direction I can't stand looking at them in the corner of the room.  Big grin

           

          Just took delivery of my last-ever pair of Mizuno Wave Precisions (for a number of reasons, and yes they are fugly).  Also a pair of the heavier Brooks T racers.  They feel light and moderately cushioned but we shall see, a couple years ago I bought a pair of T5 Racers and wore them only 3 times....caused a massive bliser on the back of my heel all 3 times un under 4 miles...never could figure out why.

          "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

           


          Will Crew for Beer

            I can highly recommend the Boston 3 and the Adios 2. I haven't tried the Boston 4 yet, but it's supposed to be lighter than the Boston 3 and a little roomier in the toe box. The toe box of the Boston 3 is snug, but not tight. I also really like the Hagio for 5K races.

             

            The biggest difference that I find in the cushioning of the Adidas shoes versus something like the Kinvara is that the Adidas shoes, to me, are much more responsive. They feel a bit firmer, but do a good job of reducing the feel of impact without feeling dead or mushy. The Kinvaras just feel unresponsive and dead to me.

             

            The Mizuno Wave Rider and Precision also have a firmer more responsive feel, although a bit different than the Adidas shoes. The new Wave Rider 17 is supposed to somewhat like the Precision.

            2014 Goal: Who the hell knows?

              I can highly recommend the Boston 3 and the Adios 2. I haven't tried the Boston 4 yet, but it's supposed to be lighter than the Boston 3 and a little roomier in the toe box. The toe box of the Boston 3 is snug, but not tight. I also really like the Hagio for 5K races.

               

              The biggest difference that I find in the cushioning of the Adidas shoes versus something like the Kinvara is that the Adidas shoes, to me, are much more responsive. They feel a bit firmer, but do a good job of reducing the feel of impact without feeling dead or mushy. The Kinvaras just feel unresponsive and dead to me.

               

              I've never tried the Kinvara but agree with the bolded stuff above for the Tempo 6s as well when compared to some of my other shoes.

                The Kinvaras just feel unresponsive and dead to me.

                 

                I got a pair last week and have to agree.  They feel quite dead to me too, they'll do a job but I don't understand the fuss - the upper is nice though.

                 

                If I could stitch the upper of these onto the midsole of the green silence I think I'd have the perfect shoe.

                  I ended up bypassing the Kinvara 4 option and going with the Virratas.  I've only done one 4 mile run in them but am very pleased so far.  Nice mid/forefoot cushion on a shoe that feels otherwise nonexistent and is absurdly lightweight.

                    Can someone give me the once and for all definition of "responsive"?

                     

                    I get cushioned vs firm. Is it the same thing? Like a non-responsive shoe I push off and some of the push is absorbed by cushioning so I don't get my money's worth from the push?

                    Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                    We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes

                      Can someone give me the once and for all definition of "responsive"?

                       

                      I get cushioned vs firm. Is it the same thing? Like a non-responsive shoe I push off and some of the push is absorbed by cushioning so I don't get my money's worth from the push?

                       

                      It's shoe porn -- "I know it when I see it."

                       

                      To me "responsive" is about the feel of the shoe. It has a lively feel and doesn't feel like dead/sticky weight when it hits the ground.

                        Can someone give me the once and for all definition of "responsive"?

                         

                        I get cushioned vs firm. Is it the same thing? Like a non-responsive shoe I push off and some of the push is absorbed by cushioning so I don't get my money's worth from the push?

                         

                        My take would be from my experience with a couple flats, ASICS Hyperspeed 3 and the Adidas Adios 2. Both are flats, both are about 7mm drop, both can be used from 5k to a marathon. The Adios is far more responsive IMHO. They have this torsion plate thingie on the bottom that makes the shoe somewhat stiffer like a track spike. Some people really don't like that stiff feeling. In fact, on easy runs, they don't feel great. They feel kinda stiff and hard. But man, I always felt that they just sprang off the pavement or the track when running tempos and races. Maybe it's in my head, but it just feels like the shoe made my feet quicker. The Hyperspeed is softer. Not in a cushioned way, it flexes easier and doesn't have that loaded spring kinda feel that the Adios has. I ran two 5ks within a month. One in the Hyperspeed and one in the Adios. The Adios just felt quicker.

                         

                        It's more of just how it feels to me. I can't answer technically.

                         

                        MTA: Or what Chris said.

                         

                         

                        It's shoe porn -- "I know it when I see it."

                         

                        To me "responsive" is about the feel of the shoe. It has a lively feel and doesn't feel like dead/sticky weight when it hits the ground.

                         

                          Got it. So responsive is just code for "I like this shoe". Makes sense, and is sort of what I thought.

                          Come all you no-hopers, you jokers and rogues
                          We're on the road to nowhere, let's find out where it goes


                          Fat butt on couch

                            Got it. So responsive is just code for "I like this shoe". Makes sense, and is sort of what I thought.

                             

                            Well, liking a shoe is at least partly a result of the way it feels.  People tend to like peppier-feeling...ie responsive...shoes, so I think it would be more accurate to say that "responsive" is code for a shoe feeling faster or better at returning energy, and this results in people liking the shoe more.  Smile

                            "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                             

                              I tend to associate responsiveness with springy cushioning, but others appear to differ on that issue.  It's open to interpretation.


                              Will Crew for Beer

                                 

                                Well, liking a shoe is at least partly a result of the way it feels.  People tend to like peppier-feeling...ie responsive...shoes, so I think it would be more accurate to say that "responsive" is code for a shoe feeling faster or better at returning energy, and this results in people liking the shoe more.  Smile

                                 

                                This. What I like in a shoe has also changed as my running has changed. I ran quite a bit in the Kinvara 2 and bought the Kinvara 3. I've put about 150 miles in the Kinvara 3, but had also picked up the Boston 3 and found I liked the feel of it better. In about the same time frame that put 150 miles on the Kinvara 3 I've put 500 miles between two pairs of Boston 3s.

                                 

                                As EGH3 said, I also believe different shoes feel better at different paces. The Adios 2 definitely feels better at faster paces. Two years ago I might not have liked the Boston 3.

                                2014 Goal: Who the hell knows?