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Does lingering achiness lead to injury? (Read 535 times)

jmctav23


2/3rds training

    I'd like some input on this as I've dealt with a mild case of achilles tendonitis before and I'm trying to avoid dealing with it again.  I've found that anytime I take my weekly mileage up above 25mpw or so that I develop consistent stiffness in my ankle/achilles area overnight.  The first trip down stairs in the morning has to be taken very slowly and gently but after I walk around for a bit it loosens up and by run time it doesn't bother me.  Even after an off day it's still stiff.  No sharp or even dull pain, just stiff and slightly achy first thing in the morning.

     

    So let me know about your experiences.  Is this just part of adjusting to higher mileage?  I'm planning a cut-back week next week to recover a bit after three weeks of higher (for me) mileage.  I have been rolling my calves out every other day or so in an attempt to mitigate any strain on my achilles.

     

    Shoes:  I started running in xc racing flats (4mm drop) and believe I have a gentle midfoot strike.  Recently switched to 6mm drop more cushioned shoe for road running and a 4mm drop shoe for trails.

    Julia1971


    All in for Boston

      As I get older, I'm noticing I get aches like this every day.  Today, it was a funny feeling in my upper quad.  I can't wait to see what it is tomorrow...  Beginning last fall, I started getting sports massage and using the foam roller.  I feel like they help keep away muscle soreness but I'm not sure either would help with something like an achilles.  You might want to do ice for something like that.  Might be worth an appointment with a P.T. to talk about it.

      Life shrinks or expands in proportion to one's courage. - Anais Nin


      I'm back!

        I know it is the new thing, but if I ran in 4mm-drop shoes my Achilles would yell at me in the morning too.

         

        Have you tried 10-12mm-drop shoes?

        jmctav23


        2/3rds training

          I know it is the new thing, but if I ran in 4mm-drop shoes my Achilles would yell at me in the morning too.

           

          Have you tried 10-12mm-drop shoes?

           

          I'd consider it, but I really don't see the need, for me, to have that much extra cushion under my heel when I don't put that much impact force/pressure on my heel.  I guess I was hoping to start out with a minimal drop in order to avoid the whole "slow transition to a minimal drop shoe" that most midfoot strikers seem to do (or talk about on the web).  I realize there are lots of opinions on this and there are lots of people running lots of miles in all sorts of shoes.

           

          In an attempt to sort all this out without getting injured, I'm trying to get a consensus on whether this stiffness should lead me to change something in my mileage build-up.  Maybe my shoes, maybe my rate of MPW increase, maybe just add more stretching/icing/rolling, or maybe it's just a phase that will pass as my body adapts??

          xor


            Well if you are having recurring AT or even soreness there, then it seems like you may be putting more stress on that area than perhaps you think.

             

            jmctav23


            2/3rds training

              Well if you are having recurring AT or even soreness there, then it seems like you may be putting more stress on that area than perhaps you think.

               

              The AT only happened once, a year ago when I started running 25 mpw just like that.  As I tried to make clear, this is stiff and achy but not painful.


              Fat butt on couch

                I know it is the new thing, but if I ran in 4mm-drop shoes my Achilles would yell at me in the morning too.

                 

                Have you tried 10-12mm-drop shoes?

                 

                +1.  You are not picking the best shoes to start in.

                 

                When I was in my 20s, ascending to higher mileage would cause residual soreness....sometimes extreme...but never injury and eventually I would acclimate and move one/get faster.

                 

                Now in my mid-30s the soreness seems more of an expectation than an exception, and OCCASIONALLY leads to injury.

                 

                It really sounds like you need to go to more typical trainers and give yourself some time to acclimate.  I can run a full marathon in flats like you describe, but I only got there after a) several years of 70-100mpw, and b) 2 workouts per week in said flats.  I briefly tried doing all runs in such shoes and the error of that move made itself apparent quickly; ever since I do 1-2 workouts per week in flats and the rest in lighter trainers and now I have no issues.

                "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                 

                jmctav23


                2/3rds training

                   

                  When I was in my 20s, ascending to higher mileage would cause residual soreness....sometimes extreme...but never injury and eventually I would acclimate and move one/get faster.

                   

                  I am in my 20s, I am ascending to higher mileage... So do I just keep on keepin on?

                   

                  This is what I do most of my running in right now:  http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-AHYP5M1.html

                   

                  I picked it mostly for its' increased cushion over my old worn out XC flats, the slight increase in drop from 4 to 6mm, and the clearance price (I'm a frugal dude and running shoe MSRP prices are silly).


                  Fat butt on couch

                     

                    I am in my 20s, I am ascending to higher mileage... So do I just keep on keepin on?

                     

                    This is what I do most of my running in right now:  http://www.runningwarehouse.com/descpageMRS-AHYP5M1.html

                     

                    I picked it mostly for its' increased cushion over my old worn out XC flats, the slight increase in drop from 4 to 6mm, and the clearance price (I'm a frugal dude and running shoe MSRP prices are silly).

                     

                    Why do you feel you need to do all you your running in a RACING FLAT?

                     

                    I'm not telling you to go to motion control bricks, but if you are having issues with shoes most only wear for races why do you continue with them if they are causing you pain?

                     

                    Over ~22 years of running I have tried about everything.  It is an experiment of one but I've found that shoes in the "lightweight trainer" category -- such as the Mizuno Wave Precision or Rider -- are as light as I can go for general bulk mileage.  I use true 6-7oz flats for 1-2 workouts per week (8-12 miles each).  This strikes a balance between keeping conditioned enough to flats to use "5K flats" for marathons and also train consistently without injury.

                     

                    Especially at 25 mpw, why do you think you can get away with trying such minimal shoes on a daily basis?  I would recommend backing off to more conventional trainers for the bulk of your mileage and keep working on the more minimal shoes 1-2 times per week when you are running faster.

                    "If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does.  There's your pep talk for today.  Go Run." -- Slo_Hand

                     

                    jmctav23


                    2/3rds training

                       

                      Why do you feel you need to do all you your running in a RACING FLAT?

                       

                      I'm not telling you to go to motion control bricks, but if you are having issues with shoes most only wear for races why do you continue with them if they are causing you pain?

                       

                      Over ~22 years of running I have tried about everything.  It is an experiment of one but I've found that shoes in the "lightweight trainer" category -- such as the Mizuno Wave Precision or Rider -- are as light as I can go for general bulk mileage.  I use true 6-7oz flats for 1-2 workouts per week (8-12 miles each).  This strikes a balance between keeping conditioned enough to flats to use "5K flats" for marathons and also train consistently without injury.

                       

                      Especially at 25 mpw, why do you think you can get away with trying such minimal shoes on a daily basis?  I would recommend backing off to more conventional trainers for the bulk of your mileage and keep working on the more minimal shoes 1-2 times per week when you are running faster.

                       

                      Thanks for the input.  The oft-repeated advice I've seen on shoes is "run in the least amount of shoe you can" and I guess I'm on a search for that, plus the reasons listed above.  My shoes are not causing me pain; they may or may not be causing "residual soreness," which you seemed to express as normal when increasing mileage.  I'm not opposed to other shoes, and I was considering another pair for longer ones cause these are rubbing me wrong at around the ten mile mark

                       

                      Anyhow, I'd like to hear more from the 11 peeps who voted "probably not" and the 4 who voted it could (that blank in "you should do _____ to avoid it" indicates that you voice your suggestions about what can be done to avoid it).


                      I'm back!

                        I normally train in racing flats too, up to 70-80 mpw (and FWIW I'm 47). But they are relatively cushioned, with a large heel-toe drop (now-discontinued Saucony Fastwitch 4). You said you hoped to "start out with a minimal drop in order to avoid the whole slow transition to a minimal drop shoe", but that doesn't really make any sense to me. It seems clear that your calves and Achilles are not ready for minimal drop shoes.

                         

                        It's not so much a matter of cushioning, as working the muscles and tendons at an increased length. That's what has to be transitioned gradually.

                         

                        MTA to answer your original question specifically, yes, if you are running in low-drop shoes to the extent that your Achilles are very stiff in the morning, and you have had AT before, then certainly this could lead to a recurrence. I have had this happen myself, after switching to low-drop shoes (Kinvara).

                         

                        The best way I have found to prevent calf/Achilles issues is to do lots of strengthening with eccentric calf drops. I do 60-70 on each leg after every workout. (But if you do not do these, you would want to build gradually, starting with two-leg drops.)

                        jmctav23


                        2/3rds training

                          This blog post, and others I've read before following a similar line of thought, is why I am running in "RACING FLAT"s

                           

                          http://www.lydiardfoundation.org/Blog/EntryDisplay.aspx?EntryID=124

                           

                          The stiffness comes and goes, today I expected it to be very bad because of my long (for me) tempo run yesterday that ended up being as long as my "long run".  But it was really mild and not even close to painful.

                           

                          I find it funny that this thread in running 101 about another newer runner experiencing some aches received the advice that his problems were just "growing pains", that they would fade eventually, and even that he should run in less shoe or even barefoot.

                          http://www.runningahead.com/forums/topic/d8c5372f2b78411d9ab0e12892384fc9/resume#focus

                           

                          Just to cover all bases, and because they were cheap, I ordered a pair of Asics DS Sky Speed 10mm drop neutral shoes to do my longer runs in and also to save my naughty racing flats for speed days and racin.

                          xor


                            Well, there's a difference between running all your runs in flats and being told to consider one run barefoot.  Which, btw, I dunno that there was community consensus on that.

                             

                            Finding the right shoe is a little like a wizard finding a wand in Harry Potter.  Gotta find the right match. You want the least amount of shoe you can get away with (except on trails, different subject)... but you probably don't want less than that.  If I ran every day in racing flats and/or low drop shoes, I'm quite sure I'd be injured.  My ATs would be howling.

                             

                            But anyway.  Maybe it is growing pains.  People are trying to give you input here.  You seem to really really want it to be growing pains and that you have awesome shoes.  So, good luck and all.

                             

                            (hopefully Nobby will comment on the blog entry)

                             

                            jmctav23


                            2/3rds training

                              Well, there's a difference between running all your runs in flats and being told to consider one run barefoot.  Which, btw, I dunno that there was community consensus on that.

                               

                              Finding the right shoe is a little like a wizard finding a wand in Harry Potter.  Gotta find the right match. You want the least amount of shoe you can get away with (except on trails, different subject)... but you probably don't want less than that.  If I ran every day in racing flats and/or low drop shoes, I'm quite sure I'd be injured.  My ATs would be howling.

                               

                              But anyway.  Maybe it is growing pains.  People are trying to give you input here.  You seem to really really want it to be growing pains and that you have awesome shoes.  So, good luck and all.

                               

                              (hopefully Nobby will comment on the blog entry)

                               

                              I don't have awesome shoes, just shoes, with plenty of tread left, that fit and feel good while running.  I don't have the cash to go chasing through a dozen shoes trying to find the perfect ones.  Well, I could do that, but then I wouldn't have any money left for racing, or beer.  That's not a trade-off I'm willing to make.

                               

                              I also hope Nobby stops by here.  And I wonder why the voting consensus doesn't match the verbal consensus?


                              I'm back!

                                I think the raw poll question is too vague.

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