RunningAHEAD - Topic: Effects of running on knees and bone health (page 2)

Bear_Poop

posted: 8/29/2006 at 11:25 AM

Lets see..................................... I can worry about maybe, could someday, might have knee problems, OR I can sit, take it easy, and have a documemted much higher chance of foot amputation, kidney failure, blindness or a 2 in 3 chance of death by heart attack AND OR stroke. I'll take my chances with my knees, thank you very much!

To paraphrase an old poster: Today is the first day of the rest of your training. It doesn’t matter where you started or how far you’ve come. Today is the day. Your training didn’t start 6 weeks ago. Your training started the last time you hit the road. John “the Penguin” Bingham Life is not tried, it is merely survived if you're standing outside the fire

zoom-zoom

rectumdamnnearkilledem

posted: 8/29/2006 at 12:42 PM

Quote from Bear_Poop on 8/29/2006 at 11:25 AM:

Lets see..................................... I can worry about maybe, could someday, might have knee problems, OR I can sit, take it easy, and have a documemted much higher chance of foot amputation, kidney failure, blindness or a 2 in 3 chance of death by heart attack AND OR stroke. I'll take my chances with my knees, thank you very much!

Precisely. I KNOW that being overweight and out-of-shape is almost guaranteed to cause serious, life-threatening health issues. Whether or not running will wear on my knees is still up in the air. Being overweight, alone, is no favor to our knees. k

Getting the wind knocked out of you is the only way to

remind your lungs how much they like the taste of air.

~ Sarah Kay

poose

posted: 8/29/2006 at 5:19 PM

I would say running itself isn't bad for the knees, but running too much too soon is. Our bodies adapt over time. Who is this guy's target audience? If it's couch potatoes who want to start marathon training I'd say he's right (btw, studies show that up to 30% of those in marathon training groups were sedentary for the 3 months before starting training). There isn't enough time for the body (and knees) to adapt to the new running stress imposed on it. Wolff's law in medicine states that bones are constantly changing due to stresses (osteoblasts and osteoclasts doing their thing). Thus, the stress from running (in your teens and 20s) should help prevent osteoporosis in the lower extremity. Stresses like running also induce your body to make little pockets of fluid in your knees for cushioning (I forget the name of them and can look it up tonight if anyone's interested). So, I would argue that slow and steady increases in running stress won't harm your knees, but rapid increases in running stress can't be good for them.

poose

posted: 8/29/2006 at 5:22 PM

Quote from Intherunning on 8/27/2006 at 10:39 PM:

He then threw out some astronomical dollar amount that we spend on baby-boomer injuries each year. quote> In order to put the number in perspective, I'm sure he estimated the savings in healthcare spending gained through fitness, right?

vicentefrijole

posted: 8/29/2006 at 6:02 PM

I couldn't agree more with what you all are saying... it seems clear to me that sitting on the couch is a far more "dangerous" activity (in terms of long-term health) than running, with the caveat that we all have to strive to train as intelligently as possible. However, (just to be devil's advocate Evil grin

) one could make the point that some aerobic activities (like swimming) are as 'health promoting' as running and less hard on the body (yes there are swimming related injuries too but I suspect the overall strain is still less due to lower impact). But I hate swimming and I love running! When it comes down to it, I run partly to keep healthy but also because I love how it makes me feel (it could be worse... I could love smoking cigarettes)! Big grin

If we want to talk about activities that lead to permanent knee injury, let's talk about basketball or football (as someone already mentioned)... my coach in highschool would have a fit if he saw any of his cross-country athletes playing basketball... Big grin

Spideog

posted: 8/30/2006 at 9:22 AM

Swimming is only safer for you though for as long as you manage to stay afloat. If my legs decide to give up whilst I'm running or walking then I'll just fall over and get a few cuts and bruises, if the same thing happens whilst swimming then I'll drown. Big grin

Mile Collector

Abs of Flabs

posted: 8/30/2006 at 10:30 AM

On a tangential note, there's a group of people that are on something called a calorie restriction diet, which calls for consuming about 1,200 - 1,500 calories a day for a full grown man. It's so drastic that they are cold most of the time! Anyway, the theory behind it is that aging is caused by the free radicals produced during metabolism at a cellular level. The more you consume, the more you metabolize, and the more free radicals you produce, thus leading to more cellular damage and ultimately a shorter life span. People on this diet go through life limiting the amount of food they eat in hopes of eeking out (theoretically) an extra 15 - 30 years of life. I'm quite sure that I rather not live 15 years longer if it means being miserable my complete life. The same goes for running. If you enjoy it for whatever reason, including the belief that it'll lengthen your lifespan (by avoiding heart attacks or whatever else), then you should continue running, even if it does cost you a knee replacement 30 years down the road.

Beantown Runners | On the Bench

vicentefrijole

posted: 8/30/2006 at 10:34 AM

Quote from Spideog on 8/30/2006 at 9:22 AM:

Swimming is only safer for you though for as long as you manage to stay afloat. If my legs decide to give up whilst I'm running or walking then I'll just fall over and get a few cuts and bruises, if the same thing happens whilst swimming then I'll drown.

I quite agree... and unfortunately, I'm a lot better at sinking than floating. Thus, I'll stick to the terra firma. Big grin

poose

posted: 8/30/2006 at 4:16 PM

Quote from Mile Collector on 8/30/2006 at 10:30 AM:

On a tangential note, there's a group of people that are on something called a calorie restriction diet, which calls for consuming about 1,200 - 1,500 calories a day for a full grown man. It's so drastic that they are cold most of the time! Anyway, the theory behind it is that aging is caused by the free radicals produced during metabolism at a cellular level. The more you consume, the more you metabolize, and the more free radicals you produce, thus leading to more cellular damage and ultimately a shorter life span.

The research behind this is pretty funny -- drosophila (fruit flies) will live longer when under the stress of a restricted calorie diet. However, this effect is not observed when the flies are put on a restricted diet, but are able to smell food. I would think, then, that these people on the calorie restriction diet need to wear nose plugs too Smile

(I learned this tidbit of totally useful info from my wife, who works on drosophila for her phd in genetics).

Mile Collector

Abs of Flabs

posted: 8/30/2006 at 4:41 PM
modified: 8/30/2006 at 4:42 PM

Quote from poose on 8/30/2006 at 4:16 PM:

The research behind this is pretty funny -- drosophila (fruit flies) will live longer when under the stress of a restricted calorie diet. However, this effect is not observed when the flies are put on a restricted diet, but are able to smell food. I would think, then, that these people on the calorie restriction diet need to wear nose plugs too (I learned this tidbit of totally useful info from my wife, who works on drosophila for her phd in genetics).

So it's not food that kills you, it's the smell of food! I'm gonna get myself a pair of nose plug! Big grin

BTW, what's her area of focus?

Beantown Runners | On the Bench

vicentefrijole

posted: 8/30/2006 at 5:40 PM

Quote from poose on 8/30/2006 at 4:16 PM:

The research behind this is pretty funny -- drosophila (fruit flies) will live longer when under the stress of a restricted calorie diet. However, this effect is not observed when the flies are put on a restricted diet, but are able to smell food. I would think, then, that these people on the calorie restriction diet need to wear nose plugs too (I learned this tidbit of totally useful info from my wife, who works on drosophila for her phd in genetics).

I've heard of similar studies with mice on caloric restriction... they live longer too. (I do research with mice & rats, but not caloric restriction). But I've never heard of this effect from smelling the food! How bizarre! Has someone figured out why the smell is able to negate the effect? I have read about people trying to do the caloric restriction thing also, but it sounds really miserable.

jlynnbob

You'll ruin your knees!

posted: 8/30/2006 at 5:45 PM

"Swimming is only safer for you though for as long as you manage to stay afloat."...but only if it's been at least 30 minutes since you ate Tongue

...oh, wait...see rule one... Blush

As for restricted calorie diets...I am here to enjoy life, not to prolong it! Now, I'm going to use my wrecked knees to walk to my car and go home and eat! bah! meh! Lynn B

""...the truth that someday, you will go for your last run. But not today—today you got to run." - Matt Crownover (after Western States)

poose

posted: 8/30/2006 at 10:02 PM

I don't know if researchers really know why the smell effects the flies. My wife said the results are new -- not yet published, but presented at a convention a month or so ago. It is thought that maybe smell triggers insulin production, but I'm not sure why that would decrease lifespan. My wife is researching aging and metabolism using drosophila (specifically, the jnk pathway in insulin signalling). "mile collector": what do you research?

vicentefrijole

posted: 8/31/2006 at 1:42 PM

Quote from poose on 8/30/2006 at 10:02 PM:

My wife is researching aging and metabolism using drosophila (specifically, the jnk pathway in insulin signalling).

Small world... I also study signaling... I study hormonal (reproductive) signaling pathways involving the PKA pathway (but in mice/rats). But I know bit about JNK and insulin because we think those pathways "cross-talk" with ours a bit. Good luck to your wife on her PhD!

poose

posted: 8/31/2006 at 8:51 PM

Quote from vicentefrijole on 8/31/2006 at 1:42 PM:

Small world... I also study signaling... I study hormonal (reproductive) signaling pathways involving the PKA pathway (but in mice/rats). But I know bit about JNK and insulin because we think those pathways "cross-talk" with ours a bit. Good luck to your wife on her PhD!

Are you working on your PhD too? I'm not sure what the PKA pathway is, other than it works with cAMP (I think?). My wife was busy watching Celebrity Duets and shushed me when I asked Smile

All, sorry for hijaking the thread!

Effects of running on knees and bone health (Read 1221 times)