Sub 2:00 Half Marathon thread (Read 2394 times)


    npaden - I know I'm late to the party on this one, but congratulations on a great race!  I enjoyed reading the RR and looking at the pictures.  Next up is your sub-45 10k, right?  Do you have a goal race in mind yet?


    I think bluerun and somebody else also had races, so congrats on those (and sorry if I missed someone).


    I was going to pull out my Hanson's book regarding the fueling thing, but Nathan beat me to it.  During my last half I took a gel between miles 5 and 6, but I'm sure that did more for me mentally than it did for me physically (and that seems to be a consensus view here as well).  I'll definitely re-read that section (probably the whole book, actually) before I start my marathon training cycle in a couple months.


    This morning I did my second practice race/time trial of my 10k plan by running an 8k.  The last 8k I ran was a cross country race back in November and I put up a 39:41, beating my goal of 40 minutes.  Today I was aiming for 36 minutes (4:30/km) which would be slightly faster than I've been doing my 10k race pace workouts.  I think the GPS might have been a little out of whack (and made me run a little farther), but I still managed to put up a 35:40 (works out to 4:27.5/km or 7:11/mile pace).  I'm very happy with that (shows the training has gone well) and if I put my 5k time trial and this one into the race predictor it shows a time of 45:03 for a 10k.  I'm not hopeful that the weather will cooperate by the end of May (it was 62 this morning and it still got a little sweaty), but getting down near that 45 minute mark might not be out of reach.

      pcaharrier - you are smoking it.  Those times you are using for race predictions are time trials and I know I can push it harder in a real race than a time trial.  I really think you have sub 45 on the 10K in the bag.  When I run my numbers through the predictors it gives me 48 minutes so I think I have a lot of work ahead of me!  Maybe the marathon will give me a base that I can work on some speed now and get close anyway.


      I'm going to run a 10K next month, but I don't think I've got much of a chance to go sub 45 yet, my goal race I think will be the second Saturday in September.  That will give me the summer to work on my speed and maybe I will have a chance at sub 45 then.

      Age: 49 Weight: 202 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

      Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)



        Nathan-  I haven't gotten to that part of the book yet but they make a lot of sense.  I'm sticking with the psychological benefit, though.  I have found that in training run over 14 miles I need a GU but not for anything less than that.  It takes me 2:20 to finish a 14 miler and 1:52 to finish a HM so it makes sense that I wouldn't need anything during the race.  I do look forward to a tasty snack at miles 5 and 10. I wanted to ask you about the speed training paces.  Were you able to hit the proper pace?  They seem awfully fast to me.  I'm still reading the book and plan to re-read it before the actual training starts but the paces struck me as really fast.


        cjw-  Sounds like things have been hectic.  Like you said, once things calm down you can focus more on your goal race in Sept.  It's still great experience to get another HM under your belt even if you feel your training isn't where you want it to be.


        Edith-  Yeah, I should write a book, "The Wine Drinker's Guide to Half Marathon Training".  What do you think?  As a non-trail runner I can relate to the gravel being a challenge.  It just feels like the footing isn't there and the rocks are sliding out from under me.  No traction.  Looks like your easy pace has improved tremendously!  That's gotta feel good.  About the water in the race, I prefer to carry my own just to avoid the chaos of the water stations (like in Nathan's RR).  I can barely avoid people trampling me or cutting me off as it is but the water stops are just exponentially more stressful.  That's just me.  Plenty of people do just fine with them.


        Jan-  Quite the multitasker!  Glad you can manage to get your runs in with all that going on.


        blue-  For me it's not an 'either/or' situation.  I drink and run.  Just not at the same time.  Hang in there.  Sounds like you're going a bit nuts.  Maybe a nice glass of red wine would be relaxing?


        hector-  I don't see how you guys can run on an empty stomach but, like you said, everyone's different.  Although I don't eat a lot I do have to eat something.


        Wolf-  Glad the ankle is feeling good!


        pc- Nice time trial!  I'm hoping the weather cooperates and you get that 45:00.


        me-  Ok, before ya'll start thinking I'm a complete drunk, that one day was really bad.  I hadn't eaten since breakfast (and I don't play well with others when I miss meals....and snacks),  which led to a feeding frenzy once I got home after 5pm.  A run was out of the question at that point.  But wine wasn't.  And it was good.  But.  Today I ran 5 and yesterday I ran 9.  Next week is the official start of the 10k training so I'm not really sweating this week.  Tomorrow I'm planning 12.

        10K: 47:12* / 13.1: 1:50:56 / 26.2: 3:53:48




        Super B****

          Well, I was finally allowed to run again today -- I would have done six or so miles, but I made a point of asking my PT how long I could run, and he said 30-35 minutes.  Which is just sad.  (I may have gone 13 seconds overboard.)


          Why is my Achilles mad at me if I've been so nice to it for the past week?!

          chasing 5:59


          because i never shut up ... i blog

            miele - what are you using for your speed workout paces?  Somewhere in the book they recommend beginners to use their 10K pace instead of their 5K pace.  I think I ended up splitting the difference and using 7:30.  It's odd, some of those workouts they seemed easy, but some of the workouts were tough.  I remember the 800m speed workout with 400m recovery  being the toughest for some reason.  They get easier as you build into them though, toward the end I was meeting the target paces pretty easily, getting closer to my 5K pace.


            me - Went for a jog today!  3.1 miles at an 10:55 pace!  My wife is finally getting over her Mono.  She actually ran the first 2 miles with me.  We also had our dogs on a leash and I ran the last mile with one of the dogs as well.  Was a beautiful day and a really nice jog.  I think I have 3 or 4 easy runs scheduled this week and then I get started with some real workouts the week after that.

            Age: 49 Weight: 202 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

            Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)

              To the 10k trainers : sounds like at least 3 of you are running 10ks soon.  I look forward to hearing some more stories as I love the speedwork !!!  Good luck to everyone and stay safe running those faster speeds Smile


              Bluerun : Welcome back and hope you get the ok soon to put in some longer runs. Speedy recovery wishes to ya!


              Wolfy : So today I ran 18 miles.  Not sure how hot is was when I started but it was already 77' when I finished at 9:30am. It hit 99 here today in the afternoon Angry  I woke up at 5:30am to make sure I could get out there early enough to dodge SOME of the heat. Anyways lets get down to details.  18 miles = 2hours 26mins 39 seconds = 8.08 pace.    I have a couple splits to share. mile 0-4 = 7.52 pace (31:30) mile 4-8 = 7.59pace (63:55) mile 8-18 = 8.16 pace (2hr26min39sec)  I ate two fruit grain nature bars on the run, one at 12 minutes, and one at 72 minutes. I also drank a full 32oz powerade as well as some water.  I ate 3 pieces of cinnamon toast for breakfast and I felt I had plenty of energy to spare.  It was a good run overall and gave me hope I can continue the 8 minute pace for the full 26.2 miles.  I don't feel too beat up considering, but we will see how I feel in the morning Joking

              The crazy part !!!  :  I weighed 163 pounds when I left this morning with my shoes and clothes on.  When I finished my run I weighed 156pounds WITH my wet clothes and shoes still on.  I drank around 50 oz of liquids which is around 3 pounds so I basically lost 10 pounds over the course of 18 miles.  Even after drinking a ton and eating afterwards I am still lighter than 163.  This shows how much water is burned, because I had plenty of calories and carbs.  If you think of my 7 pound deficit after drinking what I did, I was basically 3.5 liters short on the water I needed to drink!!!!  That is crazy right??  Anyways I will double my water intake next week.  I am running 18 miles again on Sunday, I will measure my weight again and see if I do better.  Hope the water story helps some of you. It was plain shocking to me!!!

                5k  = 19.48 10/1/13

              10k  = 45.28 4/16/13

              Half Marathon = 1:38.53  Summer Sizzle 7/13/14

              Operation Jack Marathon 12/26/12  4:39.11

              Solo O Marathon 06/02/13  3:52:10

              Operation Jack Marathon 12/26/13 3:40.34


              If you ask

                Wolfwalker -  sounds like you are ready for the full!   Running in the heat/humidity is so difficult, but I have no idea how you lost so much weight.   I've lost, maybe, 3 or 4 pounds after a run, but it comes back after a day or two of regular life.   I didn't carry for my previous marathons but they were in November.  This one has the possibility of high temps and/or humidity.  I think I will only carry if it is a hot day.


                paden - happy to hear your wife is feeling better.  Sounds like your run with her, and then your pup was nice.  It's always cool to see dogs run with such ease.  Is your training beginning for the 10k goal?   I've decided that (after the marathon) I would like to try some speed workouts, but something that would be not too stressful as to cause injury.  I seem to be prone injury with hard speed workouts.


                Blue - yay, you ran!!  I have no idea why your Achilles would be bugging you.  So frustrating, I'm sure.


                Miele - the book idea is a great one.  Wine with cheese (protein) and crackers (carbs) sounds like a recovery to me!!  I've decided to look into some speed work that I can do once a week, at the track.  After the marathon...   This one is quite small (600) so crowded water stations won't be a problem.  I hate carrying water... Don't like to wear a belt either...   Yeah, I'm kind of a racing diva. Haha.


                Pc - I sure hope that you get the weather you want.  You are so close!


                jan - congratulations for your son's graduation.   Hope the party is fun too!


                Hector -  I can run under for under an hour on an empty stomach, but only if it's an easy run.   My friend and I joke on long runs saying, "we must be at mile 8 because we are talking about food!"   I usually get hungry at that point.   My water intake depends on the heat, and when it gets warm i drink a very watered down Gatorade.  I don't like Gatorade too strong.  Makes me sick.


                me -  so last week I had my race on Sunday, then ran 6.2 on Weds, then 8 on Thurs, then 12 on Saturday.  Here's the thing... My quads are SORE and my legs felt so tired for the Saturday 12.  I managed a 9:30 pace but it wasn't feeling comfy run like and I'm feeling the soreness on the stairs.  I'm terrified bc I don't know if I should run or rest.  Marathon in two weeks.  Advice please???

                • Charlie Horse Half Marathon - May 25
                • PA Grand Canyon Marathon - July 27
                • Labor Pain 12 Hour Endurance - August 31 (50k...or more!)



                  Edith - I've only done halfs so far, but if it were me (and based on what I've read), I'd be leaning toward resting as opposed to trying to push through and risk a worse injury.  If you're only two weeks out from your goal race then there's only a limited amount of improvement that you can really pile one(maybe one or two hard workouts?).  At the same time, what you'll lose by skipping a harder workout or two is also relatively little (maybe extremely little compared to the risk of not being able to do the race at all).  I'd think that making it to the starting line with fresh legs would be just about the highest priority going into a marathon and as close as you are to race day I really wouldn't want to do something that might jeopardize that.


                  Naturally, I defer to those in the group with a marathon or two under their belts.  Reading up on running is one thing, but doing one successfully is something else entirely.


                  Super B****

                    Edith - I've only done halfs so far, but if it were me (and based on what I've read), I'd be leaning toward resting as opposed to trying to push through and risk a worse injury.  If you're only two weeks out from your goal race then there's only a limited amount of improvement that you can really pile one(maybe one or two hard workouts?).  At the same time, what you'll lose by skipping a harder workout or two is also relatively little (maybe extremely little compared to the risk of not being able to do the race at all).  I'd think that making it to the starting line with fresh legs would be just about the highest priority going into a marathon and as close as you are to race day I really wouldn't want to do something that might jeopardize that.


                    Naturally, I defer to those in the group with a marathon or two under their belts.  Reading up on running is one thing, but doing one successfully is something else entirely.


                    As someone who didn't run more than 4.25 miles in the month prior to Jerusalem, I'd agree with this.  Wouldn't you rather get to the starting line healthy and "under-trained" than hurt?  And it's not like you'll be under-trained, anyway, since you've pretty much done all you can by this point in terms of improving conditioning and fitness for the race.


                    But I've never done a marathon, either, so what the hell do I know?

                    chasing 5:59


                    because i never shut up ... i blog


                      Wolfwalker23 – good running. It good that you are changing your original plan as it fits your need. Glad to know that you are feeling confident for the race.


                      Miele – I used to run in evenings before. At that time I was not running for more than 30 minutes and thought I could never run on empty stomach. Then I started running on mornings and wanted to run for longer than 30 minutes. I was curious about upset stomach while running longer. Brother in law advised me to try running on empty stomach. I tried it and it is working well so far. Good to know that you feel recovered and started running. It is exciting that you are starting training for 10k from this week.


                      Npaden – good to know that you are recovered and went running with wife and dogs.


                      EdithRevisited – I am not an expert and never ran a marathon. but if I were you, I would not run and ride a bike if I am extremely sore two weeks before the marathon.


                      Me –ran 31 miles last week. Race is on Sunday (May 19th) and I am in taper phase. It all easy miles since last Sunday (May 5th). Ran 7 miles yesterday and 6 miles today. The plan is to run easy for 40 min on Tuesday, 40 min on Wednesday  30 min on Thursday, 20 min on Friday, and 10-15 min on Saturday. I ran at 8.31-8.32 min/mile in my first half marathon 6 weeks ago. That race was half trails and few hills (1200+fee elevation). This race would be on the street and just one small climb of 100 feet. I am going to try to maintain 8:15-8:20 pace. So I would either run a sub 1:50 race or I would bonk and race would be a bust.

                        It is interesting how different everyone is on fueling and hydration practices.


                        I've done a few 16 mile runs before completely on an empty stomach only drinking water during the run with no issues.  They were easy paced runs so most of my fuel was coming from converting fat and I didn't have an issue.  On my 18 milers I did take some gel and stuff, but that was mainly just testing to see how I would tolerate taking it, not because I thought I actually needed anything.  Some of the stuff I've read make it sound like you can train your body to be more efficient at converting fat but I'm sure it is an individual thing.  My wife couldn't go 3 hours in the morning without eating whether she was running 16 miles or sitting on the couch, she has to eat first thing in the morning regardless.


                        I've also gone as far as 13 miles without any hydration.  It was on a nice cool overcast day and I was running easy.  I'm sure on a warm sunny day I would need to drink something regardless of whether I was running easy or not.


                        I really try to run my easy runs easy and I think that helps a lot on both of those aspects.  To me it would be just a simple duration of time whether I was running or standing around outside.  If I was standing around in the sun for 2 hours I would probably drink something.  If I was standing around outside on a cool overcast day, I probably wouldn't think about drinking anything.


                        All bets are off at high exertion levels in hot, sunny weather though.  One time working outside, I drank right at 1.5 gallons of water and diet coke during a day and lost almost 10 pounds.  I was beat.


                        Hector - I think you have a sub 1:50 in you on a nice flat course if you get some weather to cooperate with you.  Make sure you don't start out too quick though.  If you click off a few 8:00 miles right at the start you might regret it toward the end.  I think 8:15 - 8:20 would be a good place to start, maybe even try to run the first couple miles intentionally slow, maybe 8:25 or 8:30 then pick it up just a tiny bit as you go.  Good Luck!


                        Me - I forgot to mention that I had my first fall yesterday in 2,500+ miles since I started logging my runs back in 2011.  Had my dog on a leash running around a track at the park and passed some people on the left who were walking their dog and as we passed them, my dog cut hard right to check out their dog.  Took my legs right out from under me.  I would like to think I made a nice graceful roll, but from the concern on the voices of my wife and the folks we passed when they asked me if I was okay or not, it might not have been as graceful as I thought.  It was on grass and one of the few places along that path on that park without dog poop so I came out of it unscathed.  Hopefully I can make it another 2,500+ miles before I fall again! Smile

                        Age: 49 Weight: 202 Height: 6'3" (Goal weight 195)

                        Current PR's:  Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)



                          blue-  A 35 min. run isn't sad, it's great!  You'll be back to full speed before you know it and this is just the start.  I think your achilles is just being anti-social.


                          Nathan-  I'm going to use the advanced plan.  I think I can handle it.  If not, I'll back off.  I guess what threw me about the speed workout is that you pick a 'goal pace'.   If I stick to my current ability then it's more manageable.  For instance, today I ran the 800s at a 7:30 pace (current fitness) which was difficult but doable whereas a 7:20 pace seems so much faster.  I couldn't have run a 7:20.  Your first run back sounded like such a nice run till I read about the fall!  At least you weren't hurt.  Glad your wife is feeling better.  Mono sounds like a real pain in the butt.


                          Wolfy-  That's a lot of weight to lose!  That is crazy.  I've never weighed myself before and after a run but I can't imagine losing 10lbs in the course of a run.    Nice 18-miler!  And in that heat, too.


                          Edith-  Only 600 runners?  Nice.  Yeah, you won't have any troubles at the water stations.  I don't necessarily like carrying my own water (and I hate those belts) but it's the lesser of two evils.  I like being able to sip regularly, too, whenever I feel like it.  Plus, those little cups they give you.  Most of it ends up in my face or on my shirt.  Haven't mastered the art of drinking out of those little cups yet.  About your legs, did you feel this way during your last taper?  It's not uncommon to feel all kinds of aches and pains during the taper.  Since you've already run a marathon you can compare how you feel now with how you felt last time.  If this is much worse then maybe you should consider backing off in order to get to the starting line fresh.


                          hector-  I wish I could run on an empty stomach but I don't dare risk it.  I'm not a 'breakfast person' to begin with but became one after passing out at the gym.  That was years ago when I never ate breakfast.  Now I always eat something and have never had another episode.  I can't eat bananas, though, before a workout.  They give me heartburn.  No loss since I don't like bananas anyway.   You've got a sub- 1:50 race.  Definitely go for it.


                          moi-  Ran 8.5 today with 6x800 at 7:30 pace.  Ok, the pace was a bit spread out with the fastest being 7:24 and the slowest 7:35.  The other splits were pretty close to the goal pace.   It was difficult but I guess intervals are supposed to be difficult.   I have a love/hate thing with intervals.  I kind of dread them but then feel really good when it's over and I hit my paces.  All easy miles for the rest of the week.

                          10K: 47:12* / 13.1: 1:50:56 / 26.2: 3:53:48




                          Super B****

                            hector -- getting close!  Good luck!


                            npaden -- eek, that sounds awesome (not).  I've yet to fall while running, unless you count the time I was knocked down by an unleashed dog.  I don't, because it wasn't my fault.  This is very strange for a klutz like me.  Here's to another upright 2500 miles.


                            miele -- ha, either it's being antisocial or it's a delayed reaction since my left side must have been overcompensating for the aches and pains on my right side during the race!  Nice work on those intervals, too.  (I wish I could do those, but I'm far too injury-prone to risk speedwork when I'm getting faster without it.  Once I plateau, I'll have to re-think it.)


                            me -- 35:25 run this morning, and I get to go up to 45 minutes soon, joy!  Why do 35 minutes of running in the morning pass by so quickly, but 35 minutes of sitting at work during the day d-r-a-g on forever?

                            Oh, and I verified that the full marathon course of the half I just did is a Boston qualifier.  I'm not going to be able to find a faster, flatter course around here, so it looks like I'm doing a marathon next May.  And it needs to be a BQ.  I've got my work cut out for me...

                            chasing 5:59


                            because i never shut up ... i blog


                              Npaden – it is great that you have your taught your body to use fat. I have noticed that I feel very low energy at hour and 50 minutes into my long run, then I take a gel at 2nd hour and feel fine for a while and feel awful again at 2 hour 45 minutes into the run. My body is definitely not there yet. Thanks for your advice and I totally agree on not going too quick. I am thinking about maintain 8:15-8:20 for first 6 miles. I would be done with the hill on mile 6th and from there onward I might need to adjust my pace based on my feeling and heart rate. Weather is definitely a big factor. I hope weather is favorable on the race day. If it is too hot, all bets are off. It was fortunate that you fall on the grass. I am 35 pounds lighter than you, but when I fell on the rocky trails a few months ago, it was awful and it took more than a week to recover.


                              Miele – it is good that you are doing what works for you. I am glad that you changed your habits after passing out in the gym and things are fine since then. Good interval workout. You might have mentioned, but I forgot. What is your goal for 10k?


                              Bluerun – it is exciting that you are going for an aggressive goal in next may

                                Wolf - Great run.  Must be insanely hot where you live to lose that amount of fluid - I personally prefer heat to the cold, but that sounds a bit much!  You are certainly ready to kick it in your race!


                                Edith - I would say two weeks out the increase in fitness you get from a workout it minimal - I would rest and race with fresh legs instead of pushing it.


                                Hector - Sounds as though you are ready and have a hopefully the weather will cooperate!


                                Miele - Great workout - I love doing speedwork - but I hate the anticipation - I try to get it done first thing in the morning - because if I sit at work and think about it all day, I get all anxious about it.


                                Blue - Hope your recovery goes well.


                                Me -  Had a 13 miler on the schedule for Sunday - and I was feeling a bit motivated, so I did a pseudo race simulation/tempo at about 90% - I felt pretty good and took some of your advice on fueling - I cannot do the GU thing, but ate some gatorade chews and had some water (I don't drink much when running either) - Held a fairly consistent pace for 10 and then pushed it a bit for the last 3.1 - Time on the Garmin was 1:43 so I am feeling ready for the Boston half.

                                Ready, go.