Forums >Racing>2017 Sub 3 Marathons...and beyond!
Why I'm no longer anti-NOP: I've read the leaked USADA investigation report and came to the opinion that "appears highly likely" that NOP (potentially) violated anti-doping rules wasn't as damning as the media made it out to be. I thought it was gonna say they found an athlete that tested positive for EPO in out-of-competition testing, however, I was disappointed to see it was focused mostly on exceeding intravenous infusion limits* on what was a completely legal substance (L-carnitine). It seemed to be based on entirely circumstantial evidence and testimony from former NOP athletes that may have had grievances toward Nike and/or Alberto. I'm not saying that I believe they run a high-integrity program or even and above the line program, and I certainly don't have love for them like I do for Meb, Jared, and Desi, but in the absence of a number (more than one) of abnormal specimen cases or a positive A sample, along with a confirmed positive B sample, I'm refraining from any harsh or negative judgement. If I were on a jury, there would be opportunity for reasonable doubt.
* The following are prohibited: Intravenous infusions and/or injections of more than 50 mL per 6 hour period except for those legitimately received in the course of hospital admissions, surgical procedures or clinical investigations.
https://www.strava.com/athletes/2507437
PR's - 5K - 17:57 (2017) | 10K - 38:06 (2016) | 13.1 1:23:55 (2019) | 26.2 2:58:46 (2017)
2020 Goals - Sub-2:55 Marathon Up Next: TBD, Boston on 9/14?
Fly you might want to look into that a bit more. IMO everything about Salazar, Rupp, and Mo kinda stinks to high heaven. I’m not saying it’s everyone there but based on what I’ve read Mo and Galen simply cannot convince me otherwise. All entitled to our opinions obviously
HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04
+1 to NOP having systematic banned drug taking. Although TBH I would not be surprised that it is happening commonly elsewhere. Pro sports pretty much means it happens, as 1% can be the difference between glory and money, versus a nearly ran.
Dig - welcome.
Mini - welcome, and big congrats on sub 3.
PRs: 5km 18:43 (Dec 2015), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:26:16 (Sep 2016), full 3:09:28 (Jun 2015)
40+ PRs: 5km 19:31 (Oct 2020), 10km 39:59 (Sep 2020), half 1:29:39 (Jun 2018), full 3:13:55 (Sep 2022)
2023 PRs (hope to beat in 2024): 5km 20:34, 10km 41:37, half 1:32:32, full 3:21:05
2024 PRs: 5km 20:25
Mini and Joann: Congrats on the PRs at Chicago!
Swim: Sounds like a very cool trip to Chicago; I've only ever seen elites from a substantial distance. Rupp ran the New Haven 20k in Sept and I could see his head at the start but that's about it. Previous year I could see Luke Puskedra real well at the start since he's so tall!
General question: Does anyone know of some super flat, but not downhill, spring marathons? Preferably in the Northeast or Midwest. I'm eating my words about never doing a spring marathon again and thinking I will give it a go. So far I have just the Martian Marathon in Michigan in April as an option. Erie looks like the flattest one I have seen so far but it's in the fall. I want to avoid the downhill ones because 1) I want the time, if a PR, to be "legit"; and 2) because I am not good at downhill running anyway. Also if I manage a world record want it to be counted .
2:52:16 (2018)
cinnamon girl So BAA half was 2 1/2 min off my PR - and is a PW since I've started 'training' in 2010 but I just shouldn't think about that, right? Lol.
cinnamon girl
So BAA half was 2 1/2 min off my PR - and is a PW since I've started 'training' in 2010 but I just shouldn't think about that, right? Lol.
My half from Sunday was almost 5 min off my PR, and yet I'm still thinking I'm on track to PR in the half come January. Maybe I'm delusional, but it helps me wanting to keep going in my training! But yes, I wouldn't worry too much about it.
Mini and Joann, great races in Chicago!
Dig and Mini, welcome
JTReeves - Houston is almost sold out, but you can still register. It's not quite Spring, but normally gets spring like conditions for what you're used to. You could take some down time and then pick back up with training in November and have plenty of time to get back on track.
Upcoming races: Boston
Not a sub-3 marathoner, but I've run the Martian. (Actually it was my first sub-4!) It's super flat and usually cool weather around that time. The only downsides I can think of (1) boring scenery on the course, if you care about that; (2) if you like a crowd to help keep motivated later in the race, only 360 marathon finishers the year I ran. However at about mile 20, you merge with the half marathoners & run with them the rest of the way. Although the way the start times are set up, they will probably be slower than you. So you get the benefit of passing a bunch of people, but the difficulty of doing so when the course narrows in spots & they don't realize you're behind them. Another bonus is that there is a special "marathoners-only" parking lot right by the start/finish (there are 5 race distances going on).
I don't know if any of this has changed, I ran it in 2014. Good luck!
Dave
I agree with the stinkiness and the fact there is a cloud of suspicion. I have a friend that worked with Alberto and his athletes at an Olympic Training Camp in the past, he had been deposed by USADA, had spoken out publicly against NOP, and had appeared in a BBC documentary stating the same sort of stuff that he had shared with me. I've been hearing about numerous allegations against NOP for 5 years, they've been "under investigation" for the past two years. Hopefully, if they're as guilty as the court of public opinion believes, there will be sanctions administered sometime before these athletes retire. Why hasn't USADA been able to move forward and publish a final report on their investigation and findings? To me that appears that Nike or someone is influencing (or obstructing) the investigation or there isn't a smoking gun other than circumstantial evidence.
In the meantime, if Rupp is going to dope, he might as well employ a coach that does it really well. He hasn't even remotely realized or infringed upon his 'un-aided' marathon potential of 2:05 based on his 15th fastest 10,000m time of 26:44. His 2:09:20 on a decent day on a fast course certainly doesn't stand out as suspect.
Meanwhile in Kenya... testing is completely inept, and they've had athletes banned in bunches when tested at international events.
RIP Milkman
JT - I'm so glad you said a legit time! With how many net downhill courses out there, I'm suspicious of some of the marathon times I hear about from people. Anyway, in the Northeast, the New Jersey Marathon is actually well regarded as a flat, fast course. It's also in late April, so weather should be good. A good site, if you haven't used it before, is http://findmymarathon.com/location.php. You can look up marathon courses near you and sort by PR Score (after getting rid of downhill courses of course), which is a combination of course profile and average weather conditions.
I would avoid the Long Island Marathon though. I ran the half, and the full course is absolutely dreadful. Sure, it's flat, but you're running on a barren highway with potential strong winds off the ocean. There are also only 500 people that run the full, compared to 2K at NJ.
5K: 16:37 (11/20) | 10K: 34:49 (10/19) | HM: 1:14:57 (5/22) | FM: 2:36:31 (12/19)
Mmmm Bop
I can see both sides with Fly and Swim and I’m kind of neutral...but it’s sad that anyone running a fast or WR time is automatically under suspicion regardless. Mo is VERY prickly about the accusations and bitter towards the British press. He does the chat/game shows when he’s over here and it’s obvious that the presenters aren’t allowed to talk about it.
RT - I’m also pleased that you’re looking for a “legit”course! I just point and laugh at people who run downhill courses to BQ or PR.
I got a weather warning update from Amsterdam marathon to say it would be unusually hot and sunny on Sunday with temps reaching 20c and to dress accordingly....Rovatti, does that mean I need to pack my mankini???
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
I want to avoid the downhill ones because 1) I want the time, if a PR, to be "legit"
FTR, this is currently how I feel as well, but I haven't written off changing my mind at some point. I wouldn't do it just to PR, but maybe to get into Boston if every other option continues to fail. There is a pretty notable one around here in WA they run a few times a year (Light at the End of the Tunnel et al), which is 2000 ft drop via steady grade over the length of the course (except for the first 3 miles in a dark tunnel). So supposedly it doesn't even feel like a downhill, it just feels like you're having a good day. A lot of people have told me they used it to BQ, and why not, it's technically legit because they let you do it. But they are probably just rationalizing. And maybe I'lol end up talking myself into it too.
Andres: Houston looks nice and flat and it would be great to meet up with you (and Ernest, if he is running it again?) but I think mid-January is just too soon for me; I'd like to spend the next couple months trying to improve my 5k time (sub 18), and maybe going after some other shorter distances via time trials on the track.
DavePNW: Thanks for the excellent info on Martian. For me this one would have the benefit that I could stay with family (I grew up in that part of Michigan) so I am leaning towards it quite a bit.
JMac: I have been using findmymarathon to look at the elevation profiles, but I thought I'd toss out the question to the group to get some firsthand experiences. New Jersey looks great and would be fairly close as well. Also good to know about Long Island. Another NJ one that looks good is the Ocean Drive Marathon; super flat, April 22. Not sure if you or anyone else here has any experience with that one?
Mikkey: Haha, yes, I know you are not a fan of the net downhill courses! I seem to remember you getting Calbears fairly riled up about some "gravity assisted" course(s) he liked. For me I think a downhill course may actually be tougher than a flat course; my legs just don't deal with the pounding of the downhills very well.
Martian is a flat course but very twisty turny and a little boring. Rises a little on the out half and then you get that back on the way in as a significant chunk of the course is o/b. I would really recommend the Illinois marathon in Chamapgne-Urbana too (04/28). I had a great time there last year and they get consistently good weather, with rain being the down side a couple of years ago or so I was told.
I'm going to run the Toledo "Glass City" marathon next spring (04/22). The glass city moniker comes from a significant glass industry supposedly... I was thinking more pint glasses being smashed over your head Never run it before, but I've been down there a bunch and it is flat and pretty friendly town and all the reviews I've read are positive. 45mins down the road form the Martian. Let's set up an RA train!
NOP: Whatever about Rupp. It is clear as day that Salazar is as dirty as they come. Sir Mo is the cleanest athlete known to man and has never tested positive. Note, that he no longer explicitly denies taking illegal performance enhancing substances. He's up to his neck with both Salazar and the Aden crowd. Stinks to high heaven.
5k: 17:32 (11/18) -- 10k: 38:47 (07/17) -- 10m: 60:23 (08/17) -- 1/2: 1:22:32 (11/17) -- full: 2:49:26 (04/17)
2020 Goals: Assault on 2:40! Next up: Toledo (Apr 26)
Only because he told me that I was wasting my time training hard for NYC last year because it wasn’t a PR course.
Ok, Calbears was right.
Rovatti, does that mean I need to pack my mankini???
hmmm.... When you get to a certain age, it's tough to pull that stuff off. You'll notice that MrMatt stopped posting pictures of his butt a few years ago... for aesthetic reasons, I think.
Only because he told me that I was wasting my time training hard for NYC last year because it wasn’t a PR course. Ok, Calbears was right.
Some of us in this thread are training for a PR at NYC. Weren't we just talking about taper madness and how anxious it can make you? Please do not add to that anxiety!