Forums >Racing>2019 Sub 3 hour marathon thread
Mother of Cats
Does he need to break 2:39 to get it, or does 2:39:59 count as one?
For a ruling on this, I pulled out my Moose Mug from Grandma's. I ran 3:02:58 at the age of 44 (women get an extra 20 minutes for the Moose Mug), and my mug says "+2" on it, which I interpret as meaning that anything 3:04x would have sufficed.
Also - I do believe that Moose Mugs are open to all, regardless of age, but there is an age range where they are more achievable. I'll recopy my post from last year:
Regarding age-grading and moose mugs - here's a breakdown of the age grade percentile for the moose mug time, in 5 year increments (I used the 2015 standard, not the 2006/2010 standard). I've bolded the 20 year period that appears to be optimal for chasing a Moose Mug.
++++
As for goal-setting, I think it's very individual. I honestly don't focus too much on goals - I find I do my best when I a) train where I am currently and b) try to run as fast as I can on race day. The final time will be what it is. So when I list a goal here, it is more of a "I think I am fit enough to run this if all the stars align" thing than a "I will be upset if I don't run this time" thing.
Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.
And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.
Stotan Disciple
3/5 - 3/10 25.0 miles, 3h 32 mins
3/11 - 3/17 71.8 miles, 9h 43 mins
3/18-3/24 81.4 miles, 11h 17 mins
3/25-3/31 95.2 miles, 13h 10 mins (10K Race 33:36)
Mikkey - Congrats on the 5K PR. I'm so excited seeing this. Heck yeah I am happy for you but it also has me excited too. Just so you know I got invited to Boston 5K. I plan to break my post collegiate PR. Seeing you do it makes me know I can get back into the 15s again. Last year I was so close 2x. Going for it mate thanks for the inspiration.
JT- Nice week your looking solid for a PR this cycle. Stay positive and aggressive you should do well.
Finbad - Dude huge congrats on that 10 Miler. know if you can not manage to screw up your taper you can dip under 2:40 based on everything I've seen. You're going to lead the board at Boston. I can feel it you have a tendency to overdo it sometimes if you get your taper right no reason you cant have a huge PR. chill out I will have my Normatec Recovery boots with me you are welcome to stop by my hotel on Sunday spend a hour in that bitch.
Steve_ - Impressive week you're fit as all getup. you should race Lon island flat as a pancake you could run with me and Alie. sure you could hit 1:17 with company. two more weeks and hard taper you'd crush your 2018 PR.
Madison- thats an impressive cycle. Hoping to get a sub 16 5k this cycle.
MMC unless that a poor race (15k) you're not getting under 2:45 at Boston. Boston sucks you in then spit you out if you start out too fast. The saving grace is if you're a high volume runner you can recover after the hills on the downhills and chase everyone you see. I did that one year to salvage a 2:39. I wouldn't dip under 6:15 at any point in the race unless its after mile 22. Cruise 6:20 then go all in would be my advice.
I am so excited my Padawan did the truth run her Splits:
4 mi WU @ 8:10 (7:46, 8:00, 7:57, 7:56)
6 Mi @ MP 6:40 (6:40, 6:33, 6:32, 6:38, 6:37, 6:32)
4 mi @ MP +35 7:15 (7:11, 7:10, 7:25, 7:15)
6 mi @ MP -10 6:30 ( 6:15, 6:28, 6:29, 6:22, 6:22, 6:24)
2m CD @ 7:48, 8:04
She ran 3:26 last year. Started with me in November look how far she has come.
Thinking should be done first, before training begins.
They all say +2 that you did it 2 mins under is coincidental. +2 means hours plus your age) so as a 44 year old female you have to run 3:03:59.
And to answer the question, you have to be under my first moose mug attempt I was 40 and I ran 2:40:04 I missed by 5 seconds I needed 2:39:59. When everyone asked Rob if I made it he said you can't cross the age plane. You have to absolutely be under. And even though I have 6 of them you only physically ever earn 1. So I put in for mine the day after Boston, then two weeks later I run 2:36 but Rob had already ordered mine so mine has Boston 2:39 and not my 2:36 from 11 days later.
This got me laughing my ass off! Thanks Nimmals I needed that this morning.
2:52:16 (2018)
JMac - that article is hilarious, 'In a land rife with superstitions, myths and monsters' - I've been to Dumbarton and they're not wrong! Breaking news from Brexitland: our pets are starting to kill themselves out of frustration.
Nimmals - glad you're back. Looks like your ramping up the inverse taper. That's a quality 10k and shows that your really close to <16 in the 5k.
Thanks for the confidence boost. I'm going to try to keep it cool for the next couple of weeks. Those boots sound awesome. At this stage with my running I don't think my wife would even question me going to a hotel room to meet someone I met on the internet to stand in some magic boots to improve my race time.
Re: Truth run - a swing from 3:26 to 2:55 shape in 12 months is wild, looks like the start of a curve that is still going up.
Re: Goals
LOL at Sling's Bronze goal
So a Moose Mug is an actual mug? I've never really known what that was all about.
I go into a race with one goal but tiered outcomes that come with different levels of delight/satisfaction/doom if the goal pace cannot be held. I don't think levels of goals really make you slack off, everyone here is putting in the amount of work and dedication that means they're looking at the A goal. B,C etc are just to calm the mind and prevent misery if the A goal can't happen on the day
Upcoming; 14th Sep Scottish veterans XC trials, 289th Sep Great Scottish Run 1/2, 12th October TAMA half marathon, 27th October Leeds Abbey dash 10k
Nimmals If you were to ignore what I actually ran, what would you have predicted for my debut marathon based off of my training (June-September 2018)? The 15K I ran was on a tough course, but I’m curious, in the absence of a race to base a prediction off of, what’d you’d predict for me. Still trying to decide on a race plan.
3K: 8:29.12 (2017) 5K: 14:56.59 (2016) 8K: 25:27 (2016) 15K: 53:46 (2022) HM: 75:41 (2022) FM: 2:43:17 (2022)
Jay - I was surprised by the 22 miles with 10 @ MP this weekend. Do you always run that long/hard 2 weeks before your races?
Jay - I was surprised by the 22 miles with 10 @ MP this weekend. Do you always run that long/hard 2 weeks before your races?
I think as long as the athlete shows they can recover quickly, my coach will put a hard long run 2 weeks out from their "A" race. He acknowledges that since there is a long term lens on training, marathon specific blocks may get you better short term results, but over the long term there's more benefit to overall fitness by including a workout like that. Hence why there's really only a brief taper as well.
Mmmm Bop
Thanks! I remember your 2:36 just after the Boston 2:39 and was gobsmacked....your training and races always gives me inspiration and good luck at the Boston 5k. 👍
Finbad - Yeah I figured that Moose Mug talk wouldn’t really register with you.....It was a popular and talked about goal back in the earlier RWOL days, especially when Rob Moose was an active poster (a really cool guy btw). It’s a Mug I’d like to win before I start needing a Zimmer frame.
5k - 17:53 (4/19) 10k - 37:53 (11/18) Half - 1:23:18 (4/19) Full - 2:50:43 (4/19)
For a ruling on this, I pulled out my Moose Mug from Grandma's. I ran 3:02:58 at the age of 44 (women get an extra 20 minutes for the Moose Mug), and my mug says "+2" on it, which I interpret as meaning that anything 3:04x would have sufficed. Also - I do believe that Moose Mugs are open to all, regardless of age, but there is an age range where they are more achievable. I'll recopy my post from last year: Regarding age-grading and moose mugs - here's a breakdown of the age grade percentile for the moose mug time, in 5 year increments (I used the 2015 standard, not the 2006/2010 standard). I've bolded the 20 year period that appears to be optimal for chasing a Moose Mug. Male age group Age graded score for Moose Mug Female age group Age graded score for Moose Mug 20M 87.82% 20F 84.64% 25M 84.79% 25F 82.07% 30M 81.97% 30F 79.66% 35M 79.72% 35F 77.96% 40M 79.02% 40F 77.56% 45M 79.70% 45F 78.56% 50M 80.71% 50F 81.03% 55M 81.96% 55F 84.21% 60M 83.47% 60F 87.98% 65M 85.27% 65F 92.44% 70M 87.39% 70F 97.76% 75M 91.00% 75F 104.25% ++++ As for goal-setting, I think it's very individual. I honestly don't focus too much on goals - I find I do my best when I a) train where I am currently and b) try to run as fast as I can on race day. The final time will be what it is. So when I list a goal here, it is more of a "I think I am fit enough to run this if all the stars align" thing than a "I will be upset if I don't run this time" thing.
Thanks for posting the table, I think a lot of the MM have been achieved from 40s to mid 40s.
Goal setting...it’s hard not to get focused on a goal time if that goal time is a big deal. Of course you’re right, the final time will be what it is and the marathon distance is unforgiving if you go out too fast.
MMC I dont think I can answer that, I tried. I did look at your training data and without a race I am just not sure. I don't guess I look at data and results and then I can assign a time. Due to your light frame I wont count you out. but the race puts you in the 2:45 plus category. If you run a great race and can take advantage of the downhill I would say 2:43:26 best case.
In 2015 there was a guy predicted to finish in 2:44 and he ran a 2:38. He had bad races but he trained right up to the last minute tapered and had an amazing race. So Its possible you can improve on my estimate if you do well to finish your cycle taper well and be fully rested as well as having great weather.
If that was a bad race on a difficult course then disregard everything I have said. "bad races are flukes, and good races are not - good races are supposed to happen."
what I would like to share with you. I make all my athletes read ad nauseam the week leading up to a race.
This excerpt from Mike Platt find and read the whole thing i can provide a link but read this. It might turn your race around. Anyone from the old fourm know how I am about Honesty, Flexibility, Mental toughness, self reliance and the personal power you can derive from these. Whatever the mind can conceive and believe, it can achieve. If you think you're primed, then pay me no mind.
Mike Platt - I make sure that I am training correctly. I have absolute confidence that proper training brings results. Sometimes the results don't come on the exact day we expect they will, but they do come.
I try to remain relaxed. Bad workouts don't bother me; they come and go. A new day is a new day and I wake up believing in breakthroughs.
I have a firm belief that the body is much like the brain. It's said that each of us uses only a small percentage of our brainpower, and I believe that about our bodies. The trick is releasing this power.
I also believe in stories such as women lifting cars off their children. This can be done; I know it can.
I believe that some sick people can augment their own curative processes with the correct attitude; maybe by only a small percentage, but a small percentage can make a huge difference in this sport. With that in mind, I try to visualize physical recovery processes occuring.
I do not expect bad things to happen. bad races are flukes, and good races are not - good races are supposed to happen.
Very specific. What calculator or methodology did you use to deduce that? Also I like that excerpt!
Mike Platt - I make sure that I am training correctly. I have absolute confidence that proper training brings results. Sometimes the results don't come on the exact day we expect they will, but they do come. I try to remain relaxed. Bad workouts don't bother me; they come and go. A new day is a new day and I wake up believing in breakthroughs. I have a firm belief that the body is much like the brain. It's said that each of us uses only a small percentage of our brainpower, and I believe that about our bodies. The trick is releasing this power. I also believe in stories such as women lifting cars off their children. This can be done; I know it can. I believe that some sick people can augment their own curative processes with the correct attitude; maybe by only a small percentage, but a small percentage can make a huge difference in this sport. With that in mind, I try to visualize physical recovery processes occuring. I do not expect bad things to happen. bad races are flukes, and good races are not - good races are supposed to happen.
This is an oldie but goody.
I've read it hundreds of times over the years and if/when I'm fit enough and have enough invested in a race to actually need that level of mental toughness I'll go back to it again. I met Mike Platt IRL a bunch of years ago at a race when he was running for Whirlaway. Tough runner. Former boxer and 2:18 marathoner. It's all great but the end is my favorite:
I visualize and verbalize; I have inner conversations with myself that putall of the above things together. It is almost a daily meditation or prayer.
I am training right, I have a goal, I know that I have had breakthroughperformances in the past and that I can still have “relative breakthroughs.”I am serious, I am having fun, and I savor the moments that I am trainingand racing. Very few people can experience what we as runners and racersexperience: having a great workout, the excitement of race day from theminute we wake up until the minute the gun goes off. The thrill of be ableto run and race like a deer; the ability to lift the car off of the baby.These are all things that I keep processing, almost as a form ofself-hypnosis, on a daily basis.
I let these things fill me. Anything can happen, and I am ready.
Runners run
MMC - I mostly use McRun to calculate. Based on your training, I can deduce. Remember a calculator is based on an average training volume. So if you run less, then accuracy falls. if you run more it increases your chances of hitting goals or exceeding.
Finbad you and the wife are welcome to visit. You get to meet NurseMiler my GF who coincidentally has been hurt every Boston marathon. Except last year when she won the Masters @ the Boston 5K. She had a great early 2018 before getting injured she ran 17:35 5K, 36:04 10K, 1:19:04 Half
JT - I try to be helpful nothing wrong with being funny if you mean well. I'm glad you got a chuckle. I'm cracking up that Finbad says to the wife "going to a hotel room to meet someone I met on the internet to stand in some magic boots to improve my race time."
. When I was friends with the Aussie doctor she brought me Milo and Vegimite from Australia for our 1st ever meeting. She also ended up marrying another forum member. RWOL sub 3 we were all like family.
Swim - Remember one guy got laid off and everyone offered to cover his expenses. I think he declined but everyone offered to chip in all the same, because we were all like family.
MikeyMike - That's awesome you met him and reread this often. His words have always felt like a great articulation of how I approach training and racing.
The Marathon: Visualization Strategies
https://www.letsrun.com/forum/flat_read.php?board=1&id=187493&thread=187493
They all say +2 that you did it 2 mins under is coincidental. +2 means hours plus your age) so as a 44 year old female you have to run 3:03:59. And to answer the question, you have to be under my first moose mug attempt I was 40 and I ran 2:40:04 I missed by 5 seconds I needed 2:39:59. When everyone asked Rob if I made it he said you can't cross the age plane. You have to absolutely be under. And even though I have 6 of them you only physically ever earn 1. So I put in for mine the day after Boston, then two weeks later I run 2:36 but Rob had already ordered mine so mine has Boston 2:39 and not my 2:36 from 11 days later.
Thanks for the correction - that makes much more sense.
Is crossing the age plane like crossing the streams?
Finbad - Moose mug is a physical thing. Behold:
Nimmals - I really liked the quote as well.
Regarding the Normatec boots - I have the budget version (Air Relax). I use them regularly, but I actually don't like using them with 24 hours of a key workout or race - I feel like they over-relax my legs and I lose some muscle tension, if that makes sense? Note: I am the only person I know who feels this way.
JTReeves - I'm very early, but wanted to make sure to wish you a good race in Ohio. How is the forecast looking?
I’d never heard of those magic boots, I think that will have to be my next running related purchase.