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Newbie question about pace (Read 1045 times)


Over Analyzer of My Log

    This is my first post to the forums so please forgive any breeches of protocol.  I just started running in October at age 43.  I am 5'7" and weighed 287 lbs then.    I have lost 60 lbs since then and run in 2 5ks and feel better than ever but my question is about pace.  I have made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than just trying to run at conversational speed ( using the 2 sentences without gasping rule).  I am trying to get ready to run a 10k on March 4 and my plan is basically 4 miles on monday, weds, 3 on thurs, and on Sat 5-7 and tapering down as the race gets closer.  How do I make sure not to overextend myself on speed/pace when it seems to be such a moving target as I get fitter and loose weight.  Should I just continue with "just running" and let it work itself out til I reach a plateau or should I pay a lot of attention to heart rate etc. and make sure I don't go "too fast too soon"?  I just really don't know what the difference between an easy run and a tempo run etc would be for me as just finishing the run is exciting enough.

    Rodgers Running

    2012 Goals

    Run a 10K 15K Half Marathon

      Most runs leave the watch at home, and if feeling good towards the end of a run run a few strides, not all out sprints, but "get up on your toes" and run 50-60 meters (about 30 steps with each foot), recover and repeat 4-6 times.  Other than that don't worry about pace now, when beginning running you can't run too slow.  


      TRIing to beat the heat!

        Since you are so new to running, my suggestion is to really focus on tuning into RPE (rate of perceived exertion) and running easy (no tempos, no speedwork, etc...).  You don't need any watches, Garmins, etc... to do this.  You just have to be honest with yourself about what truly feels easy and what doesn't.  If you run with a partner, can you converse with said parter? Don't worry, the conversation will be a bit more difficult than if you were chewing the fat at a coffee shop, but it shouldn't leave you breathless.  If you don't run with a parter, can you talk to yourself?  I will do this from time to time during an easy run to check myself.  I have even been know to belt out a few verses of a song. :-)

         

        The pace gains that you make as a new runner will be huge and I can guarantee that you will never see such large gains again during your running career (in terms of both an increase in training pace, racing speed and the time it takes for those things to happen).  Most new runners run too fast b/c they don't like seeing 10, 11 or 12 min/mile training paces on their watches.  This is why I say, get rid of the Garmin, Nike+ or whatever gadget you are relying on for pace and learn what easy feels like to your body.  The sooner you learn how to run by RPE, the better... and once you have a good base under you, some additional race results, etc... you can then learn how to use Garmin pace to your advantage for race pace work, speed work, etc...

         

        Good luck to you!

        2012 Goals

        Sub-1:42 for half marathon √ (1:41 at Disney, Jan '12)

        Sub-22 for 5k √ (21:51 in Sept '12)

        BQ for marathon- FAIL

          Congratulations on the lifestyle change and the weight loss and the fact that you're getting more and more fit each week!  You should be very proud of what you've done so far, and how you feel.

           

          Regarding your questions...

          (many will respond, many will have different viewpoints than I'll share, I think.)

          I'd advise to run easy pace, and if your transformation changes the definition of easy, so be it.  To best judge "easy", you may want to have a HR monitor.  I like mine, and wear it frequently.  Occasionally, I'll push my pace and effort to "Tempo".  Most often, I train easy. 

           

          (I've learned that there are a few topics within RA that become polarizing and hot topics.  1 of them is training with a heart rate monitor.) Smile

           

          There are very smart people here, and I'd recommend listening to their advice as it relates to tapering, amount of miles, etc.

          The core of my message is to say "great job!"


          Cheers,
          Brian

          2014 Goals:

          #1: Do what I can do. <DOING>

          #2: 365 Hours training

           

             A tempo run is nothing but a faster than normal run, do this occasionally just to get a feel of the discomfort you'll feel in the race, and it's quite OK to run hard once a week (if running 4 times a week), maybe the second mile of the 3 miler on Thursday, where you are huffing a bit.  There's no need to taper at the volume you are running, just replace the Sat 5-7 miler with the race.

            vegefrog


              Congrats on the weight loss!! That's so awesome Smile

               

              I have always run off/on but never really "trained". I started running again in September and will be doing my first marathon in 2 weeks.

               

              I have read lots of wonderful training threads here, and sort of keep them in the back of my mind for later. I am doing the approach of "run a lot, run easy and sometimes if I feel great, run fast". With this approach I have gotten a PR in every race that I have run. I am going to keep going with this method and not do any "official" speed work, until my times even out and I stop getting faster on my own. I figure if I can keep getting my times down by just adding miles and running easy then that's what I'll do. Sort of saving the speed work, interval and hill training as a reserve for later on when my times aren't dropping from "just running". I think this approach has worked for me because I have avoided injury, and it has allowed me to drill into my head that easy, conversational paces can improve your running and make you faster.

               

              Of course if you start speed work now, then you will probably drop times faster, but if you don't do it right you risk injury.

               

              What I do is sometimes pick up the pace in the middle of a run. For instance if I'm running 7 miles, I warm up 1.5, run faster in the middle, and warm down 1.5. Just to provide a little mental toughness and let my body know that I do expect speed sometimes Smile

                I have made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than just trying to run at conversational speed ( using the 2 sentences without gasping rule). 

                 

                FIRST and foremost - congratulations on doing what so many people can not.....you started running and are now continuing to run.... you should be very proud of yourself because you're doing it....

                 

                Based on the quote from your opening remarks, it kind of seems (to me) like you've answered your question.      If you've made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than trying to run a conversational speed, then why would you suddenly question your own success and wisdom.   Keep doing what you are doing and slowly and cautiously add more minutes/miles to your weekly routine and you will continue to see improvements in your pace.       At some point down the road you might level off ------ then you might want to ask again.......

                 

                But my advise to you is-- If it's working, just keep on doing it.......after it quits working, ask - and the great runners in RA will help you along....

                 

                I think we should all approach any speed training with a lot of caution and probably shouldn't even think about any type of tempo or speed work until averaging a minimum 30 or 40 miles per week for a few months.   You want to make sure you have a nice solid amount of base work before you start pushing it.........few runners get hurt because they try to run too much, they usually get hurt because they try to run too fast and push themselves too hard...........

                Champions are made when no one is watching

                  FIRST and foremost - congratulations on doing what so many people can not.....you started running and are now continuing to run.... you should be very proud of yourself because you're doing it....

                   

                  ...   If you've made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than trying to run a conversational speed, then why would you suddenly question your own success and wisdom.   Keep doing what you are doing and slowly and cautiously add more minutes/miles to your weekly routine and you will continue to see improvements in your pace.    

                  ........few runners get hurt because they try to run too much, they usually get hurt because they try to run too fast and push themselves too hard...........

                   +1

                  2013 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away - FAIL.

                  2014 Goal: Make 3:00:16 go away.

                    Phillip

                     

                    just want to add in my congratualtions to you on both your consistency & weight loss.  LIke Phidippides mentioned, you pretty much answered your own question.  you, like anyone else will see improvement in both overall endurance (mileage/duration) & pacing just by being consistent, even if at a "slow" pace.   You are only in this for 3 mths or so & will still see nice gains for awhile.  What you are doing is perfect for now.  at some point you may want to add a 5th day if you can fit it in.  I would recommend to concentrate on duration more so than mileage or pace & add that 5th day.

                     

                     at some point soon your gains will continue but at a slower upward trend.  Just accept that fact & not be discouraged, just keep getting out there consistently.   If & when you do want to start doing some faster paced work just work on that just like you are working your plan now.  slow & easy with small incremental increases in intensity..   You have already gotten a couple good pieces of advice on that from the other posts.

                     

                    RE speed (striders, tempos, etc):    you will see & hear lots of different thoughts on this.   Some people believe on working these into regular runs very soon into a person's running routine.   Some are more conservative/cautious.    My own thought is that after 3 mths of consistent running you s/b able to do a little, similar to what Happyfeet suggested &  have abit of experience before your March 4 10k.  But priority still s/b on running longer duration 1x/wk & adding a 5th day.  10k is 2x the distance as 5k.    obviously,  duh .   ha ha

                     

                    good luck & again congrats.  keep us posted on your journey.


                    Over Analyzer of My Log

                      Thanks for all the well wishes and advice.  I guess I just needed some reassurance that I wasn't trying to go to fast.  I am really enjoying all the info and conversation on the site.

                      Rodgers Running

                      2012 Goals

                      Run a 10K 15K Half Marathon

                        Most runs leave the watch at home, and if feeling good towards the end of a run run a few strides, not all out sprints, but "get up on your toes" and run 50-60 meters (about 30 steps with each foot), recover and repeat 4-6 times.  Other than that don't worry about pace now, when beginning running you can't run too slow.  

                         Listen to this,

                        I just saw my dear husband go from a non runner into running "injury"free for a whole year following this principle.

                        Don't worry about the watch...hey...you and I will not break any world record, anyway...trying to bit the watch will get you in-trouble.

                        You will do grand on your race!!!

                         

                        Be proud of yourself for this new endeavor!!!!

                        "Champions are everywhereall you need is to train them properly..." ~Arthur Lydiard


                        Race Less Train More

                          This is my first post to the forums so please forgive any breeches of protocol.  I just started running in October at age 43.  I am 5'7" and weighed 287 lbs then.    I have lost 60 lbs since then and run in 2 5ks and feel better than ever but my question is about pace.  I have made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than just trying to run at conversational speed ( using the 2 sentences without gasping rule).  I am trying to get ready to run a 10k on March 4 and my plan is basically 4 miles on monday, weds, 3 on thurs, and on Sat 5-7 and tapering down as the race gets closer.  How do I make sure not to overextend myself on speed/pace when it seems to be such a moving target as I get fitter and loose weight.  Should I just continue with "just running" and let it work itself out til I reach a plateau or should I pay a lot of attention to heart rate etc. and make sure I don't go "too fast too soon"?  I just really don't know what the difference between an easy run and a tempo run etc would be for me as just finishing the run is exciting enough.

                           

                          Are you an ATC member? Join the ATC to get an early app for Peachtree Rd race. Instead of attempting speed work race. The ATC is having a low key race 2/11. Free to members.$10 for non members. There are amount 10 races in the series.

                          Run until the trail runs out.

                          2013***1500 miles

                          50 miler

                           

                           

                          unsolicited chatter

                          http://bkclay.blogspot.com/

                            This is my first post to the forums so please forgive any breeches of protocol.  I just started running in October at age 43.  I am 5'7" and weighed 287 lbs then.    I have lost 60 lbs since then and run in 2 5ks and feel better than ever but my question is about pace.  I have made drastic leaps in pace without trying anything other than just trying to run at conversational speed ( using the 2 sentences without gasping rule).  I am trying to get ready to run a 10k on March 4 and my plan is basically 4 miles on monday, weds, 3 on thurs, and on Sat 5-7 and tapering down as the race gets closer.  How do I make sure not to overextend myself on speed/pace when it seems to be such a moving target as I get fitter and loose weight.  Should I just continue with "just running" and let it work itself out til I reach a plateau or should I pay a lot of attention to heart rate etc. and make sure I don't go "too fast too soon"?  I just really don't know what the difference between an easy run and a tempo run etc would be for me as just finishing the run is exciting enough.

                             

                            Congratulations, Phil!  WTG!

                             

                            You did something right off that bat that I never did when I started, you ran by a conscious, perceived effort. That particular rule you use can work well for some, and if you are getting faster at the same perceived effort, that's a very good sign that your aerobic system is responding well. You're schedule (training load) doesn't seem to heavy. Your body is responding, so I recommend just staying the course with your current training load at that easy effort.  You are still a beginner, and are carrying some extra weight still---and so far so good. Let the races be your speed work for now.

                             

                            Working with heart rate can help. I'm a long time heart rate trainer, and I find it does help in many ways. If you want, you can message me, and I can pass on a bunch of HR training info for you about different methods and how it works, so you can inform yourself well before making a choice to buy a  HR monitor. We also have a HR training forum here on RA (click) that covers  Van Aaken, Hadd, and the Maffetone Method.

                             

                            Feel free anytime to keep us posted on how you are doing with your running. RA can be a sanctuary for runners in that way. Even though you can't see our eyes, they generally don't gloss over when you write about your running---generally. Cool

                             

                            +1 on Runnerclay's post. I'm also from Atlanta, and the ATC worth joining (just the discounts at running stores is worth the dues). 

                             

                            Keep going!

                            --Jimmy Cool