2013 Sub 4:00 Marathon Goal (Read 1271 times)

    Good luck on your race Sunday.  Who knows, it might turn out to be a perfect day and the stars might align and you go out there and nail it.

    Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

    Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

      Good luck on your race Sunday.  Who knows, it might turn out to be a perfect day and the stars might align and you go out there and nail it.

       

      Thanks Nathan. The stars aligned for about 36kms and then met my friend, Reality. Smile Hobbled home in 4:13:01. Quite a cold and windy race today (I think weather forecast had it at 2deg at the start, without wind chill factor) ... i was on sub-4 pace until 36km and then legs lost steam ...

      Splits from website (ran 43km+ according to my garmin):
      5km (29:37, 29:37)
      10km (57:25, 27:48)
      15km (1:25:15, 27:50)
      20km (1:52:55, 27:40)
      25km (2:20:18, 27:23)
      30km (2:48:21, 28:03)
      35km (3:17:38, 29:17)
      40km (3:55:47, 38:09)
      Finish 4:13:01, 17:14.

       

      January was a good month in training for me .. but Feb was miserable. The key for me is quite obvious - the Long run. (My longest run in training this time was 25kms only, and because of my traveling on holiday etc, my "taper" was erratic). So i will make another play for the sub-4 in Berlin later this year.

      I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

        Great effort though! You had some great splits in there!!

          Sorry you didn't make it Turbolegs.  Sounds like life got in the way of training there at the end and I know you weren't that hopeful going in but you never know on race day.

           

          Good luck on Berlin.

          Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

          Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

          Tejas Runner


            Hi All,

             

            Strange race but I PR'd by over an hour!  (Not hard to do when you end up walking a large part of your first).

             

            Went with the 4 hour pacer.  He had paced the 4:00 hour group at least 3 other times and had come in right at just a tiny bit under 4 hours each time.  For some reason he went out too fast, at least that is how it seemed to me.  We had one hill at 9:18 and the average of everything else up until mile 21 was right at 9:00.  So we are ahead of schedule but I felt good and just ran along.

             

            Then at mile 21 my IT band went again.  For some reason this has only happened to me in the race, never training.  I had to stop  4 times to try and massage my knee.  I was so afraid this was going to be like the MCM all over again - walking in.  Oh well I thought, at least I will PR as I have gone farther than the last time this happened.

             

            And right when I had to pull up the pacer pulled up.  He had hamstring issues.

             

            So I kept trying to hobble along, miles 21 and 22 were both 9:55 miles.  Stopping repeatedly to try and massage my knee.

             

            The end seemed so close so this felt even worse than the MCM.  I had to try and keep going as long as my knee would hold out.  At the MCM I was able to sort of hobble for two miles - then it was walk it in.

             

            Then the road flattened and leveled out and my knee started to work again.  Slowly but surely I could increase my speed.

             

            Mile 23 - 9:29

             

            And then my knee started to feel even better.

             

            Mile 24 -9:16

             

            Wow, I am doing ok.  I know I can't hit sub 4 hours but maybe I can run hard and come close to 4 hours.

             

            Mile 25 - 8:44

             

            I am flying and I feel great.  I am passing people like crazy.

             

            Mile 26 - 8:13

             

            This mile was awesome.  Cruising down along the river, passing folks just running hard.  Felt fantastic.

             

            At mile 26 there is a guy there directing people, and he says we are at pace for under 4:00.  I think he can't be right.  But I decide to see how hard I can go.

             

            That last bit was .4 on my Garmin.

            My split for that .4 was 7:37.

             

            My Garmin said I made it but I didn't believe it until I saw my official time at the timing booth.

             

            3:59:00

             

            I made it into the club!!!!!

             

            PS My pacer finished at 4:16.

              Congratulations!  Sounds like you ran a great race and overcame some obstacles to make sub 4!

              Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

              Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

              Tejas Runner


                Thanks.  It was crazy because at one point it was Deja Vu all over again.  I forgot to mention I also slammed down some Motrin.  That might have helped as well.  Either way I could not believe I could run again.  It felt so great to come so close to a second disaster but then be able to go hard.

                 

                Congratulations!  Sounds like you ran a great race and overcame some obstacles to make sub 4!

                  My first post in this thread, since this week is the first time I felt a sub-4 was in reach and at least possible :-)

                   

                  I have some pretty good times recently that would indicate a sub-4 is just possible, but my fear is that I really start to lose the pace on the long runs. (anything above 20K).   I ran a 30K this weekend, but I was struggling some the last 10K and flat out exhausted at the end of it, and this worries me about how much my pace in the 30K to 42K portion of a Marathon would suffer.   Here are my recent times:

                   

                  5K:     21:54    -  Pace of  7:03

                  10K:   48:48     - Pace of  7:52

                  20K: 1:43:30   -  Pace of  8:20

                  30K:  2:43:27   - Pace of 8:47

                   

                  --  In the 30K, I started out at about an 8:25 pace consistent for 15K, then faded  pretty substantially at about the 20K mark.   The last 5K was just survival to keep moving (legs were done) and a death-sprint for the last half a mile.  Took a lot of willpower to push hard at the end, I could barely walk after finishing :-)   This tiredness that occurs at distances over 20-25K worries me though on what I can do in 42K.   I am hoping that after taper, I have another 10K left in me prior to the marathon so that I can run a good pace for the full 42K distance.

                   

                  I know would need a 9:10 average pace for the Marathon in order to hit the sub 4 hour mark, and it looks at least possible based on my other times above....  Any ideas on what I should start out the pace at in order to have a shot?   Will taking some speed off at the first half of the race save my legs for a solid second half finish?

                  .

                   

                  PS..  Tejas Runner, GREAT STORY!  Glad you overcame that IT issue and finished Sub-4!  I remember your MCM story, so that is great to see a superb result for you now :-)

                  The Plan (big parts)→  /// April:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon (Staying at the Waldorf Astoria, its a "Bucket List" thing.  Can someone loan me some Zamunda money to help pay for it?)   ∞

                  Tejas Runner


                    My first post in this thread, since this week is the first time I felt a sub-4 was in reach and at least possible :-)

                     

                    I have some pretty good times recently that would indicate a sub-4 is just possible, but my fear is that I really start to lose the pace on the long runs. (anything above 20K).   I ran a 30K this weekend, but I was struggling some the last 10K and flat out exhausted at the end of it, and this worries me about how much my pace in the 30K to 42K portion of a Marathon would suffer.   Here are my recent times:

                     

                    5K:     21:54    -  Pace of  7:03

                    10K:   48:48     - Pace of  7:52

                    20K: 1:43:30   -  Pace of  8:20

                    30K:  2:43:27   - Pace of 8:47

                     

                    --  In the 30K, I started out at about an 8:25 pace consistent for 15K, then faded  pretty substantially at about the 20K mark.   The last 5K was just survival to keep moving (legs were done) and a death-sprint for the last half a mile.  Took a lot of willpower to push hard at the end, I could barely walk after finishing :-)   This tiredness that occurs at distances over 20-25K worries me though on what I can do in 42K.   I am hoping that after taper, I have another 10K left in me prior to the marathon so that I can run a good pace for the full 42K distance.

                     

                    I know would need a 9:10 average pace for the Marathon in order to hit the sub 4 hour mark, and it looks at least possible based on my other times above....  Any ideas on what I should start out the pace at in order to have a shot?   Will taking some speed off at the first half of the race save my legs for a solid second half finish?

                     

                     

                    Thanks KL.  I appreciate it.

                     

                    I will say that all of my 18 mile runs felt harder than the marathon.  Don't forget you will taper coming into the marathon.

                     

                    If those are races then you should be good with the timing - but it may be close.  It is hard to say with out more info.  If those are training runs you are running way too fast.  Smile

                     

                    Looking at the times would suggest to me that you may be going out to hard and fading, and that you aren't doing enough slow miles to build up your endurance.  But those are just guesses.

                     

                    Anyway, to your question.  In my opinion, your best pace is to just hit the 9:10s adjusting for the course (hills etc).  Don't try to bank time.

                     

                    Here are some links that might help:

                     

                    http://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id46.html

                     

                    http://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id188.html

                       

                      Thanks KL.  I appreciate it.

                       

                      I will say that all of my 18 mile runs felt harder than the marathon.  Don't forget you will taper coming into the marathon.

                       

                      If those are races then you should be good with the timing - but it may be close.  It is hard to say with out more info.  If those are training runs you are running way too fast.  Smile

                       

                      Looking at the times would suggest to me that you may be going out to hard and fading, and that you aren't doing enough slow miles to build up your endurance.  But those are just guesses.

                       

                      Anyway, to your question.  In my opinion, your best pace is to just hit the 9:10s adjusting for the course (hills etc).  Don't try to bank time.

                       

                      Here are some links that might help:

                       

                      http://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id46.html

                       

                      http://www.hillrunner.com/jim2/id188.html

                       

                      Thanks very much for that input.  I appreciate it.  You saying that your 18 mile training runs felt harder than the actual race really sounds promising.  The 18 mile training runs on my plan don't scare me at all, but the race sure does!

                       

                      I've been really struggling on thinking through how the marathon will actually turn out since it will be my first.  I'm logging plenty of miles per week right now, and so far no individual workout has seemed very bad at all, but I've still got a few more weeks before I hit my peak.  Right now my biggest issue has been running my runs a little faster than I'm supposed to based on my plan.

                       

                      The part that makes me worry is the unknown of course.  Like your IT band flaring up at mile 22.  I guess just keep plugging away on the ol training plan and assume that when it is all said and done I'll be ready.

                      Age: 45 Weight: 208 Height: 6'2" (Goal weight 195)

                      Current PR's:  Mara 3:48:09; HM 1:43:26; 10K 44:51; 5K 21:27

                      Tejas Runner


                         

                        Thanks very much for that input.  I appreciate it.  You saying that your 18 mile training runs felt harder than the actual race really sounds promising.  The 18 mile training runs on my plan don't scare me at all, but the race sure does!

                         

                        I've been really struggling on thinking through how the marathon will actually turn out since it will be my first.  I'm logging plenty of miles per week right now, and so far no individual workout has seemed very bad at all, but I've still got a few more weeks before I hit my peak.  Right now my biggest issue has been running my runs a little faster than I'm supposed to based on my plan.

                         

                        The part that makes me worry is the unknown of course.  Like your IT band flaring up at mile 22.  I guess just keep plugging away on the ol training plan and assume that when it is all said and done I'll be ready.

                         

                        You have to trust your training.  Keep running easy, that builds endurance - which is what you need for distance of the marathon.  There is nothing you can do if things crop up.  I have done everything I can think of to get my IT ready.  I have trained to plan, rolled it, stretched it.  Still flared up.  The best as I can tell it is the crown of the road and down hills that set it off.  Anyway you will probably be fine.

                         

                        Just some thoughts for your first in case the help.

                         

                        Plan your pace based on past performance.  Then add a few minutes as it is your first.

                         

                        Figure out your splits and stick to them (adjusting for the course and the conditions).  It will feel too slow for a long time.  Resist the urge to go faster or you will pay for it in miles 20 - 26.2.

                         

                        The half way point, the real race, starts at mile 20.  Everything up to that is just warm up.

                         

                        Somewhere along the way you are going to feel not good, probably somewhere 15 - 20.  Just persevere.

                         

                        Don't think about trying to go hard till mile 23, and then don't go as hard as you think you can.

                         

                        Don't do anything new on race day.

                         

                        Enjoy yourself.  Look around.  Drink in the experience.

                         

                        Have fun.

                         

                        I was totally confident for my first and it was a disaster.  I was totally paranoid for my second, I reached my goal.  My recommendation would be to try to be somewhere in the middle.   Cautiously optimistic.   Smile

                          I appreciate the feedback Tejas, I think I have a shot at it :-)   I think the taper may indeed turn out to be a positive factor.  I had run 61 miles in the week before my 30K (the most miles ever in 1 week for me) so that likely hurt my 30K effort some.  I also forgot to mention that it was raining for the entire 30K.  I've got to consider that the 50 degrees and rain for near 3 straight hours probably took alot of energy out of me as well.    --- Shamrock is nearly a perfectly flat course, all I need now is for it not to rain on race day.

                          (Sh1t, I probably just jinxed it)!... :-)

                          The Plan (big parts)→  /// April:  Hampton, VA 24 Hour Run for Cancer  ///   May:  3 Days at the Fair (12 Hour)  ///  Nov:  New York Marathon (Staying at the Waldorf Astoria, its a "Bucket List" thing.  Can someone loan me some Zamunda money to help pay for it?)   ∞

                          Tejas Runner


                            I appreciate the feedback Tejas, I think I have a shot at it :-)   I think the taper may indeed turn out to be a positive factor.  I had run 61 miles in the week before my 30K (the most miles ever in 1 week for me) so that likely hurt my 30K effort some.  I also forgot to mention that it was raining for the entire 30K.  I've got to consider that the 50 degrees and rain for near 3 straight hours probably took alot of energy out of me as well.    --- Shamrock is nearly a perfectly flat course, all I need now is for it not to rain on race day.

                            (Sh1t, I probably just jinxed it)!... :-)

                             

                            I honestly think you can do it if you train smart and race it smart.

                              Awesome stuff Tejas .... it tastes sweetest when you least expect to nail it, especially through the waves of emotions during the race !! Fantastic stuff and the year is still young !!!

                              I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

                              ap4


                                 

                                I honestly think you can do it if you train smart and race it smart.

                                 

                                +1

                                 

                                Your mileage is pretty good for a first marathon, you've got sufficient speed.  The tricky part is pacing.  Don't go out too fast or by the time you realize it, you're cooked and the last few miles will hurt bad.  Trust the training and your taper.  Pfitz's book says the taper will reduce your time by about 3%, which is about 7 minutes for a 4 hr marathon.  Oh yeah, have fun.

                                 

                                Congrats Tejas.  Way to tough it out at the end.