2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 421 times)

Running Problem


Problem Child

    53 or 54 miles. One 16 mile long run where I could definitly feel the legs getting sore over the last two miles which was a good reason to get it done. 12 miles the next day with long climbs didn't seem to bother me as much as I expected. A speed workout (I think) and a tempo run at a 7:10/mi pace with the Zoom Fly Fly Knits from 2019 puts me at a 3:08-3:10 marathon training pace right now (where my 5k puts me). Good confidence builder with 12 or 13 weeks until race day. I guess I've officially accepted my fitness level. Skipped Monday because I just ran out of time/desire. Definitely felt tired at the end of the days with workouts.

     

    oh and I left my prescription oakley sunglasses on my wife's car roof and they were smashed to pieces. $560ish later and I'll have a pair. They're kind of a security blanket to me. Something I have on probably 99% of my runs like my running watch. The glasses breaking REALLY got to me the day it happened. Not sure why. Almost like the last thing I could hold on to from the past had now been destroyed, and I was forced to move on. Just weird.

    Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

    VDOT 51

    5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

    Running Problem


    Problem Child

      Anyone here ever run the Detroit Marathon? Seems like it would mirror Chicago in running through a bunch of downtown looking at skyscrapers, some residential areas and some smaller businesses. Novelty of running into Canada on most years. Just curious since October would be summer training for me much like Chicago, but Detroit doesn't seem to have much mention. Bad weather? horrible logistics? too many turns?

      Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

      VDOT 51

      5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

      JMac11


      Milkman

        RP - never heard of anyone running that, but does look okay. Maybe a touch too warm, and the hill in the first 10K looks tough, but otherwise fine. Why are you looking at that?

         

        JT - one thing I also noticed was you take fairly long rests with your LT runs. What's the thought there?

        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

         

        Next Race: Unknown 

        JTReeves


           

          JT - one thing I also noticed was you take fairly long rests with your LT runs. What's the thought there?

           

          Uh-oh...I'm being scrutinized by Coach JMac.  Not sure if you mean this morning's 3x2T or just in general? I've usually taken 0.5 mile recovery jog between 2 mi reps. I don't stop to walk, and I also do these faster than what would be official T pace, so I think it works out.  You asked earlier about what kind of shape I think I'm in; I would say sub 2:50 shape, but then again that's what I thought for at least the last 3 marathons and the result was far from that. For different reasons in each case, and this time around I think none of those should apply, so we will see.

           

          BTW, what's this about a down week before a race and then you knock out 2 x 3T yesterday?!

           

          RP: Detroit is on my bucket list since I grew up just north of the Motor City. I know a lot of people who've done it and it's a fast course. You have the one big hill JMac mentioned which is the bridge going into Windsor (you take the tunnel back) but otherwise flat. Good atmosphere, well organized and not too huge (about 1500-2000 in the marathon). Nowhere near the size of Chicago.

          2:52:16 (2018)

          JMac11


          Milkman

             

            Uh-oh...I'm being scrutinized by Coach JMac. 

             

            Wait until we get to your taper with your goofy 2 days off in a row, then you'll really get the brunt of it! More seriously though, I really dig into your training because a) you've got the talent to go sub 2:50 but it just hasn't clicked yet, b) you're an OG here, c) this thread is much better when we're more engaged and not just saying "nice week" followed by silence Tuesday-Saturday!

             

            Anyway that makes sense on the rest.

             

            Regarding shape, everything says sub 2:50. I haven't seen anything indicate it would be even close outside of the usual "anything can go wrong in a marathon." Just really a matter of getting through your taper injury-free and smart, and then executing on race day.

             

            For my week: I'm only running 24 miles over the following 4 days, and around 55. I severely front loaded the week with that workout on Monday with 4 easy days before the race. Hopefully my legs will be popping by Saturday. I am considering not mini-tapering as much given I've never felt as strong during a cycle at this point before (which I'm starting to think is due to the strength training I've been doing with PT), but I also don't want to get injured in a few weeks and wonder "what if." I'll see how I feel the next 2 days, but either way, it will be a gradual taper down to race day Saturday.

            5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

             

            Next Race: Unknown 

            Running Problem


            Problem Child

              RP - never heard of anyone running that, but does look okay. Maybe a touch too warm, and the hill in the first 10K looks tough, but otherwise fine. Why are you looking at that?

               

              JT - one thing I also noticed was you take fairly long rests with your LT runs. What's the thought there?

               

              Something other than Boston/New York/Grandma’s/CIM. I’ve never been to Michigan and it might actually be a good time since my wife’s birthday is shortly after so I wouldn’t have to train around her birthday or Halloween. Only downside is summer which means heat and possibly fire. Plus the novelty of running internationally. I’d also find appeal in crossing state lines for a marathon.

              Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

              VDOT 51

              5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

              wolvmar


              Ground the Hawkeyes...

                Anyone here ever run the Detroit Marathon? Seems like it would mirror Chicago in running through a bunch of downtown looking at skyscrapers, some residential areas and some smaller businesses. Novelty of running into Canada on most years. Just curious since October would be summer training for me much like Chicago, but Detroit doesn't seem to have much mention. Bad weather? horrible logistics? too many turns?

                 

                I'm a lurker here but have run Detroit 3 times. Great race, well-organized, pretty fast. Weather can be an issue as it was 30 degrees one year, at the start, 65 another with 90% humidity (fortunately, I was running the half that year). Typically, it will be in the 40s at the 7am start. Usually, at about mile 1.5, it begins the ascent on the Ambassador Bridge to Windsor with a return around mile 7 or 8 through the tunnel. This year, it is U.S. only so the first 8 miles or so will be entirely in the U.S. so no bridge or tunnel hills (on the exit) to deal with. I imagine this will speed it up although it removes some of the most scenic parts of the course (sunrise while on the bridge is awesome, Windsor along the river is very nice). Decent crowds along the way although some of the best were in Windsor and the new first part of the course is not very residential so may be a bit sparse. Nice party after. Again, I think it is very well organized, and, if you stay downtown or anywhere near downtown, it's easy to navigate around.

                JTReeves


                   Wait until we get to your taper with your goofy 2 days off in a row, then you'll really get the brunt of it! More seriously though, I really dig into your training because a) you've got the talent to go sub 2:50 but it just hasn't clicked yet, b) you're an OG here, c) this thread is much better when we're more engaged and not just saying "nice week" followed by silence Tuesday-Saturday!

                   

                   

                  For this marathon I'll do the Roger Bannister taper and take a full 5 days of rest prior to the race just to get you riled up.  In my defense, I did follow your final week taper prescription last marathon.

                   

                  I know it's far out at 2 and a half weeks but it will take a real weather anomaly for the Hamptons marathon to have decent weather. Looking at the historic weather there the last few years it's always either too warm or super windy, or both. Probably going to be Hartford for me. If the weather is awful for that I have Northern Ohio as the final back-up, but that's Oct. 31 so it would be tough to wait so long.

                  2:52:16 (2018)

                  Longboat


                  On the roads again...

                    RP - I lived in the Detroit area for many years. Although I never ran the Detroit marathon, I'm familiar with it as a spectator and have run parts of it in other races. 

                    This year, the Detroit course does not go across the border, 'cause COVID. Looking at this year's course, it's flat and pretty boring, particularly on the new section put in to replace the bridge, Windsor, and tunnel miles. Miles 19-24 are better, around Belle Isle park and back to downtown on the Riverwalk.  Overall I'm guessing 1-2 minutes faster than the US-Canada course.


                    Normally, it's a good race, not a great one. No big crowds on the course, not the fastest course. The climb over the bridge is fairly tough (but it's early), and the uphill out of the tunnel is moderately difficult at about halfway. BTW, in Detroit you go south to get to Canada, and north to come back to the US.

                    You need a passport or passport card for ("REAL ID" D/L's don't work). Border guards almost never check runners (either direction) crossing the border, but they can, so you're still required to carry the ID wih you. A few years ago, a runner had some medical tests earlier in race week; the radioactive tracers set of the US radiation detectors coming out of the tunnel. He dropped a few minutes sorting that out.

                    Neil

                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                    “Some people will tell you that slow is good – but I'm here to tell you that fast is better. I've always believed this, in spite of the trouble it's caused me. - Hunter S. Thompson

                    JMac11


                    Milkman

                      JT - I'm not surprised on Hamptons. I just can't see a race without 10+ mph winds. It's just the nature of the east end of Long Island. Great during the summer when it's hot out and you get a nice breeze off the ocean. Not so good for marathons.

                       

                      I'd pretty much run Hartford unless you get a bottom 10% day. I agree you can't wait too much longer, you're in such good shape you don't want to peak too early and then have to wait. A slightly warm day would be better than that.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Unknown 

                      JMac11


                      Milkman

                        My race for Saturday is looking warm. Right around 70 at race time with dew points in the upper 60's and partly sunny. I'm disappointed because I feel like I've made big gains in the past few weeks and I won't be able to realize that. I was okay this summer with warmer races because I was in poor shape and was just excited to race again. At this point in training, I want to race for real, not run another race where paces are at least 10 seconds slower per mile. Oh well. I think anything 35:XX is good now.

                        5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                         

                        Next Race: Unknown 

                        Running Problem


                        Problem Child

                          Longboat Passport check during a marathon? oh man with my luck....it would make for a great Strava title/story. "so here I am on PR pace and as I'm LEAVING Canada they want to know if I'm American. Since they've never met me they don't understand why they should help me leave, or stop me from entering." Also, if you have a DUI apparently you're not allowed in Canada for 10 years according to some people I know who earned a DUI.

                           

                          Wolvmar I figured the weather would be comparable to Chicago. One year it is hot, the next year stupid humid, and occasionally just right.

                           

                          I might keep it on a list of marathons to do. Maybe a BQ attempt when I'm fast enough, and feel like hitting up Detroit. No I won't be asking to visit locations of Eminem. Maybe KISS, or a Tigers game.

                          Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

                          VDOT 51

                          5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

                          JTReeves


                            My race for Saturday is looking warm. Right around 70 at race time with dew points in the upper 60's and partly sunny. I'm disappointed because I feel like I've made big gains in the past few weeks and I won't be able to realize that. I was okay this summer with warmer races because I was in poor shape and was just excited to race again. At this point in training, I want to race for real, not run another race where paces are at least 10 seconds slower per mile. Oh well. I think anything 35:XX is good now.

                             

                            Summer just refuses to end this year! For 10k I would say you might still be ok with a temp of 70, but a dew point in the upper 60s is getting rough. Hopefully it changes for the better. Just remember that Cheptegei broke both 5k and 10k WRs in disgustingly hot and humid conditions, at least for mortals like us. For the 5k WR, the dew point was 69 and temp was 79. Makes you wonder what he could have done in cooler conditions...

                            2:52:16 (2018)

                            JMac11


                            Milkman

                              Agreed on the temp, it's the dew point that's making me realize a PR is out of the cards. I did my MP in 70s but dew points upper 40s and it was great conditions. I ran yesterday in similar dew points and once again felt terrible: couldn't finish my strides at the end of my easy run, felt like my heart was going to explode out of my chest. I'm not built for super hot conditions anymore.

                               

                              Cheptegei also weighs 115 pounds. A little easier to control your body heat when you have no body fat or excess muscle.

                              5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:00 (10/21)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                               

                              Next Race: Unknown 

                              flavio1980


                              Intl. correspondent

                                JT - Hey, more respect, it’s coach Jack McDanion 

                                 

                                me - a nice 3k time trial this morning in 10:41 (PR is 10:34). Very close to PR even though in the middle of marathon training and no taper.

                                I know I gave it my all cause on the last km I wanted to spit, I first looked around to ensure there were no Jmacs nearby and then aimed at the right side. Instead of doing its curvaceous trip to the ground it just dropped on my right arm 🤦‍♂️

                                Splits were roughly 3:30, 3:31 and 3:40 so yeah nice pain cave.

                                 

                                I have a 20 miler scheduled for this Sunday, it should be around 2h40 so should build that endurance.

                                 

                                For me the problem with the marathon is that once I start getting muscle failure there's no amount of good thoughts or stubborness that can get me back into the race. Whereas for half marathon and below I usually can will myself deeper into the oxygen deprivation.

                                At least this time around I'm getting a few weeks around 60 miles per week, endurance should be better this time.

                                My record of going further before the body breaking down was a marathon that I tried to easy run a few years ago from a base of 50 miles per week. I tried to easy run it at 5 min/km 8 mil/mile with a half PR sub 90 minutes. I got to km 36 before the cramp fest begun.

                                PRs: 1500 4:51 2019 - 5K 17:56 2021 HM 1:21:59 2021

                                Up next: Rest and recover

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