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Lactate test - Re post (Read 959 times)

    Starting a new thread as the previous one got sidetracked ..

     

    I did a lactate test on Thursday last week. The trainer asked me for my 10k race pace which is around 49min (12.2 kph). And so he set up 5 speed zones at 9,10,11,12 and 13 kph. Testing protocol was 5 min run at each speed with 1 min rest in between and blood samples at the end of each 5 min run. The pic below is the result of the test (and i have super imposed the black lines).

     

     

    I recently ran a marathon in 3:56 which is 5:37 pace (in a cooler climate as well). I reckon that it would probably be a 6 minute pace if i were to have run it in Singapore. Following the lactate test, the trainer told me that the bulk of my mileage should be between 149 and 164 bpm. This translates to a pace/km of 6 min to 5:20 mins as per the chart. I thought (from general literature) that my easy or steady pace should be about a minute/km behind my goal marathon pace. So that would actually be a pace much slower than 6min pace.

     

    What is the right way to interpret the results of this test? What is the correct training pace for the steady runs that should form 50-75% of my weekly mileage (which will be at 40-50 miles)?

    I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

      Sidetracked? On RA? Inconceivable.


      MoBramExam

        I'd do some or parts of your easy runs at the top end of aerobic effort.

         



          I'd do some or parts of your easy runs at the top end of aerobic effort.

           

          What would that be? In terms of pace/km? Or HR?

          I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

            Turbo, I think we are in the same speed range.  

             

            Since I am no physiologist or have a LT test done Here's what I do. Most days if I am not paying attention to pace, and maybe finish the last half mile a bit fast. About a 10 min/mile start and 8:30/mile finish.  I guess that translates to  6 min/Km to 5:20/km pace. I think for beginning marathon runners, easy pace = Marathon pace.  For someone really new to running MP will be slower than their easy pace. For faster folks the other way around.


            MoBramExam

              What would that be? In terms of pace/km? Or HR?

               

              Think also that Marathon Pace (MP) is a good number to work with.  For most MP will = to no more than appx. 3/4s effort.  Some or part of your easy runs should be at this effort / pace.  Others slower.  The result will be pushing your aerobic threshold upward.

               

              Like Happyfeet, when doing such a run, I'm going to look at the average.  Best done by starting slower and easing into it, and maybe finishing a little faster rather than going out and trying to hold on.

               

              Work on running these on feel and use the numbers (Pace / HR) as data and feedback.  Helps a lot with training and racing.  Good luck!

               



              Scout7


              CPT Curmudgeon

                How are you measuring effort?  Is it by heart rate, pace, perceived effort, or something else?  Right now I'm unclear.

                  How are you measuring effort?  Is it by heart rate, pace, perceived effort, or something else?  Right now I'm unclear.

                   

                  I think HR is the truer measure of effort as it can take into account terrain, temperature, feeling-on-that-day etc. Given that my HRs and my speeds are generally well correlated, for atleast a bulk of my training, i want to know what pace should i be doing most of my runs at.

                   

                  Pfitz generally has you training below MP for most of the runs. This lactate test which tells me i should be running most of my runs between 149 and 164 bpm means that i should be training at a pace thats in general faster than my MP.

                   

                  I dont know if i am asking the right questions ... i want to know, given my current state, what speed should i do most of my training at .. so that i can get maximum benefit in racing a marathon in sept/october faster. I want to base build for 8-12 weeks before i start a marathon training schedule.

                   

                  Happyfeet, Mobram - Thanks for your inputs. I generally use the first couple of kms of my run as a warm up and gently ease into my running pace from there. You can see from my log that most of my runs are like that.

                  I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

                    Pfitzinger assumes MP came from a decently run marathon.  If you had trouble in yours (I have no idea, just saying), then your pace would be slower than what Pfitzinger contemplates.

                     

                    Either way, pace varies with how rested you are, hydration, stress, weather conditions, biorhythm, butterfly wing-flapping in China, ... which is why I'm guessing Scout will suggest you forgo adherence to a strict pace or HR number, and instead go instead by perceived efforts.

                    “Everything you need is already inside.” -- Bill Bowerman

                    Scout7


                    CPT Curmudgeon

                      I don't think the speed matters as much as the heart rate does.

                       

                      As you said, heart rate is probably a better metric of effort.  So why not go by heart rate and not worry about the speed so much?

                       

                      I think you're overthinking this whole thing.  The best thing you can do now to race well in the fall is focus on running consistently and frequently.  Run at whatever pace/effort/heart rate allows you to accomplish that goal.  If it's heart rate, that means you're going to be probably about 80-90% of Lactate Threshold heart rate.  I don't know what pace that is.

                        How long have you been running, Turbolegs?

                          How long have you been running, Turbolegs?

                           

                          Somewhat regularly for 2 years now .. beginning 2010 ... ran very little before that (300-400kms in 2009).

                          I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

                            I don't think the speed matters as much as the heart rate does.

                             

                            As you said, heart rate is probably a better metric of effort.  So why not go by heart rate and not worry about the speed so much?

                             

                            I think you're overthinking this whole thing.  The best thing you can do now to race well in the fall is focus on running consistently and frequently.  Run at whatever pace/effort/heart rate allows you to accomplish that goal.  If it's heart rate, that means you're going to be probably about 80-90% of Lactate Threshold heart rate.  I don't know what pace that is.

                             

                            I guess my motivation is that .. i was doing something (with respect to my training) before i did this lactate test. Logically, having gained some info from having done this test, i should be in a position to better "adapt" my training plan. The thing is i dont know what i should change .. if i dont get clarity here .. i will just go back to running most of my runs at about a minute or so off my goal marathon pace (lets say my goal pace for my next marathon is 5:15/km, which is to drop 20 seconds from my current marathon pace).

                             

                            I have read quite a few threads on training as best as i can and finding my marathon pace on race day .. but i need to start somewhere, hence this (slightly) arbitrary target of getting to a 5:15 goal marathon. My grand plan is to run several shorter races in the course of my training and if i am significantly deviating from what i should have run in the shorter races according to many of the online calculators, then i will rethink my goal pace.

                            I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

                              Somewhat regularly for 2 years now .. beginning 2010 ... ran very little before that (300-400kms in 2009).

                               

                              Okay, I just looked back through your log. Nice training.

                               

                              You are at the point in your training where your #1 goal should be to slowly build your weekly mileage. You would see tremendous improvement at all distances if you could simply get your weekly mileage to 35-40 miles per week (55-70kmpw). One day a week do a relatively easy session of repeats (maybe 6 x 3minutes "steady" w/90s recovery jog). One other day a week, run something short and quicker, maybe 8 x 100m fast or 6 x 200m quick.

                               

                              Once you are stable with that mileage and those two workouts for 4 or 6 weeks, you should start racing 5ks pretty regularly, maybe once every two weeks or so. Learn how to race, how to control effort. By August, if you did that, you should see your 5k time down in the 22 minute range (maybe even faster.)

                               

                              Once you are there with your 5k training, you can do a marathon build, maybe shoot for a peak mileage of 50mpw (~85kmpw). If you do that, then by December my guess is that you could run under 3:30 for the marathon.

                               

                              All of this without worrying a bit about the lactic threshold.

                               

                              Cheers,

                              Jeff

                                Okay, I just looked back through your log. Nice training.

                                 

                                You are at the point in your training where your #1 goal should be to slowly build your weekly mileage. You would see tremendous improvement at all distances if you could simply get your weekly mileage to 35-40 miles per week (55-70kmpw). One day a week do a relatively easy session of repeats (maybe 6 x 3minutes "steady" w/90s recovery jog). One other day a week, run something short and quicker, maybe 8 x 100m fast or 6 x 200m quick.

                                 

                                Once you are stable with that mileage and those two workouts for 4 or 6 weeks, you should start racing 5ks pretty regularly, maybe once every two weeks or so. Learn how to race, how to control effort. By August, if you did that, you should see your 5k time down in the 22 minute range (maybe even faster.)

                                 

                                Once you are there with your 5k training, you can do a marathon build, maybe shoot for a peak mileage of 50mpw (~85kmpw). If you do that, then by December my guess is that you could run under 3:30 for the marathon.

                                 

                                All of this without worrying a bit about the lactic threshold.

                                 

                                Cheers,

                                Jeff

                                 

                                 

                                Jeff .. that makes a lot of sense and also jives with my intuitive take on the training to be done. I dont have so many 5k races where i live so will just replace them with time trials at the local track. My plan is indeed to take it to atleast 60kms a week during the base build phase and then start training with a 12/16 week plan starting end June.

                                 

                                With respect to my original question, perhaps training at a pace where my HR is around 150-160 is a good starting point for the general aerobic runs.

                                I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

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