Forums >General Running>What am I missing about Hansons' Speedwork Recovery Recommendations?
Proboscis Colossus
They recommend the recovery time between repeats be 50-100% of the duration of the repeats.
Last week's speedwork had me doing 12 x 400m repeats, with 400m recovery in between.
So, if I run each repeat in 1:35, as per my goal pace, then in between, I should "recover" by...running another 400m in about 45 secs? Or at the high end, 1:35?
I'm guessing I should adjust the expected recovery times for the shorter intervals, and they just failed to do so in the book? Or, should I recover according to the time recommendations and disregard the recovery distances listed?
Fourth time I've used this plan; don't know why I never noticed this before. I feel like I must be missing something.
"God guides us on our journey, but careful with those feet." - David Lee Roth, of all people
As a general rule of thumb, for myself..
Mile pace workouts: equal distance recovery (ie.. 400m repeats with 400m jog recovery)
3k workouts: equal time recovery (ie.. 3 min on.. 3 min off)
5k workouts: equal time recovery, minus 1 (ie.. 3 min on.. 2 min off)
10k workouts: quarter distance recovery or 2 min per 5 min of work (ie.. run one mile.. 400m jog recovery)
Cruise intervals: One min. off per five minutes of recovery.
And we run because we like itThrough the broad bright land
They recommend the recovery time between repeats be 50-100% of the duration of the repeats. Last week's speedwork had me doing 12 x 400m repeats, with 400m recovery in between. So, if I run each repeat in 1:35, as per my goal pace, then in between, I should "recover" by...running another 400m in about 45 secs? Or at the high end, 1:35? I'm guessing I should adjust the expected recovery times for the shorter intervals, and they just failed to do so in the book? Or, should I recover according to the time recommendations and disregard the recovery distances listed? Fourth time I've used this plan; don't know why I never noticed this before. I feel like I must be missing something.
I'd use time. If I'm running hard for 1:35 to cover 400m, I'm sure not going to be recovering by running 400m in half that time, which I think is what your "recover" is implying.
With the duration being 50-100% of the repeat time, you'd probably be covering much less than 400m for the recovery. If you were on a track, your start points would keep moving. (I do my "speedwork" in strange - for others - places so to recover in the same distance in reverse direction takes anywhere from half as long (steep hill) or twice as long (not-recently mowed athletic field, steps)).
Feeling the growl again
How long you recover depends largely upon how fast you are running them and what you are trying to do with them -- LINKY. (I wonder how many hours I've saved not having to re-write that over the years)
"If you want to be a bad a$s, then do what a bad a$s does. There's your pep talk for today. Go Run." -- Slo_Hand
I am spaniel - Crusher of Treadmills
I am a total n00b and just follow directions. I'm sure I read about the recovery time, but when I actually got around to doing the workouts, I just looked at the distance. All the repeats from 400 to 1600 are at the same pace, but all indicate 400 recovery (OK at 1600 you get 600), so the math on recovery time is not going to work across the board. I imagine they just wanted to keep it simple, and gradually increase the difficulty of the weekly speed workout. They call it the Advanced Plan, but for experienced runners I assume it is considered pretty basic. IMHO you are experienced enough that you would probably benefit from buying a custom plan or getting a coach.
Dave
Why is it sideways?
If it's 400m jog recovery in-between and that's the instruction, there's no set time. Just jog a lap and when you get around run the next repeat. Generally the jog is a bit slower than easy pace but not a walk.
They start you out with an easy one and then get harder from there.
This week you'll be at 8 X 600m with the same 400m recovery, next week you'll be at 6 x 800m with the same 400m recovery, then 5 x 1,000m,, 4 X 1,200m all with the same 400m recovery. It will get closer to that 50% mark before you know it.
You will be looking forward to slow jogging that 400m as you get longer and longer on the fast part of the interval.
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Current PR's: Mara 3:14:36* (2017); HM 1:36:13 (2017); 10K 43:59 (2014); 5K 21:12 (2016)
Yeah, that's pretty much what I've been doing, but I got to wondering how fast I'm "supposed" to jog the recovery laps, and look what it got me!
Dave, npaden, I was kind of thinking it was something along the lines of your posts...and yeah, logic says that, as the intervals get longer and the recovery distances stay the same, the recoveries will get closer and closer to (and possibly surpass) that 50% mark. Indeed, tonight's recoveries from the 600's were almost right at 100%. Just weird they left the wording the same for the 400 set, making it seemingly plainly state that you should "recover" by going twice as fast as your 5K pace. And Nathan...I looked forward to jogging the slow lap last week! Speedwork makes me feel all big and bad as I'm walking up to the track in my "fast" shoes and gear. And that feeling lasts until about halfway through the first rep.
Dave - didn't know you were using Hanson's. Thanks for the complimentary suggestion on using something more advanced...maybe at some point. For now I'm adding three miles to all the easy runs, maxing out the warmups and cooldowns to three miles each, and adding a rep to the speedwork. And, after I get a few tempo runs in at the "new" pace (dictated by my last race), I start adding a mile or two to those as well.
spaniel - thanks for the link; I'll look at that when I don't need to go to bed 30 minutes ago!
I did the same workout this morning . I did 300m recovery, just to make it a little harder. But I normally stick to distance recommendation they give for recovery and run them really slow.
I was also so inspired by this thread that I did 12x400 w/400 rec this morning. Actually I was planning on it anyway. But this was the first time I've done anything like it on the treadmill. Def prefer the track, but not too bad. Hard workout, but it greatly helps alleviate the treadmill boredom vs. an easy run of the same length.
maybe it should be said that the Hansons book has plenty of typos. Perhaps they didn't use an editor. Bhearn put together some nice detail on the book, followed by plenty of discussion. Another mention might be that the plans in the book are simply intended as outlines.
I suggest that your recovery distance for 400's and 800's be half the interval distance (200 meters for 400's and 400 meters for 800's). The time will then fall in the Hanson range.
King of PhotoShop
Two things:
1) I would read very carefully anything bhearn says, so if he added any insight to the method you can take it to the bank.
2) Spaniel's comment is spot on. Off the top of my head I can jot down two typical track workouts, and for the sake of argument we'll say it's 800's today. You can run them at 15-20 seconds slower than current fivek pace and if you do, 200 meters is about right. Or you can do them at some speed faster than 5k speed, almost your "all out" speed, and then you had better take the full 400 recovery
And the reasoning for that is that you would like blood pH to lower in the entire bloodstream. You will not achieve this in an all-out 800 workout if you have to cut it short. In other words you would like a high volume of total work, so help yourself prolong it with the longer rest interval. So yes, the pace of the track workout really matters. I could go on an on about this, and I see I already have. Spareribs
Fast is better than long
I will say that I just picked up the book and read through it and was very startled as I have a friend coached directly by the author. The book opens by making some repetitive suggestions. Namely: long run distance and weekly mileage. My friends plan does not adhere to either of these repetitive points. However; if you looked at the advanced plan and extrapolated in close approximate ratio, you'd see the plans are quite the same. Point is: The Hansons are aware that the vast majority of their readers are novices and sub-sub-elite and they are marketing there; however, they do have pointers for those who are migrating toward sub-elite.
They call it the Advanced Plan, but for experienced runners I assume it is considered pretty basic. IMHO you are experienced enough that you would probably benefit from buying a custom plan or getting a coach.
They call it the Advanced Plan, but for experienced runners I assume it is considered pretty basic.
IMHO you are experienced enough that you would probably benefit from buying a custom plan or getting a coach.
2017 Goals: Give up goals; they're stoopid
Give a man a fire and he'll be warm the rest of the night;Set a man afire and he'll be warm the rest of his life.
What in the Jehu?
I'm looking at the book and it seems pretty straightforward. The recovery time on the Speed intervals = 50 to 100% of the TIME in took to do the interval. Their example, ' For instance, if the repeat is 2 minutes in duration, the recovery should be between 1 and 2 minutes. However, we tend to give beginners longer recovery time.' (Pg 57) No mention of distance recovery. I have used time recovery since college (for 20+ years)
I would disregard the 400 in the plan since it not mentioned anywhere else in the book.
BTW running a 400M at 45 sec is pretty much world class sprint speed.