2021 Sub 3:00 Marathon Thread (Read 308 times)

dpschumacher


Making a comeback

    At any mileage...a 200m all out would break all my tendons. It was why I ended up injured most of college.

     

    Marby - that’s a very smart plan with the double taper.

     

    JT - Hassan is in superb form, let’s see how she keeps it until August

     

    DPS - we’re all different but I’d reckon that the much, MUCH shorter bouts of 1500m workouts would be easier on your body. You’d also be running way less mileage.

    I miss running 100s and 200s all out.

     

    New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

    USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

     

    2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

    Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

    10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

    5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

    flavio1980


    Intl. correspondent

      At any mileage...a 200m all out would break all my tendons. It was why I ended up injured most of college.

       

       

      How interesting, we are indeed all very different. You are freakishly strong to be able to run these 100 mile weeks, I'd assume your body to be more resilient. Perhaps there's something going with your proprioception (is that the word?) due to past injuries.

      PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

      Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

      Tool to generate Strava weekly

      darkwave


      Mother of Cats

         

        How interesting, we are indeed all very different. You are freakishly strong to be able to run these 100 mile weeks, I'd assume your body to be more resilient. Perhaps there's something going with your proprioception (is that the word?) due to past injuries.

         

        I think it's the difference between a maximal load for a short bit of time, and a sub-maximal load for a longer period of time.  Two different types of stresses.

        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

         

        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

        dpschumacher


        Making a comeback

          I think this is a pretty spot on. Again, I'm a big guy for a runner relative to people running similar times (6ft... 170-5 lbs). Also I hit the ground hard when I run, you can here me coming. My foot strike are not a quiet glide....I pound the ground. I have a buddy (5'8" 125) who make almost no noise other than his breathing and just glides along. That is also a factor I think.

           

          I think it's the difference between a maximal load for a short bit of time, and a sub-maximal load for a longer period of time.  Two different types of stresses.

           

          New 2020 Goal: Actually run a race, any race, just run a real legit race. **Eye Twitching**

          USATFMN XC 6k Lake Elmo Championship 21:49

           

          2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

          Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

          10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

          5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

          Running Problem


          Problem Child

            I think it also shows the difference between a college athlete level of ability and the "average" person. I just watched the ACC 5k and the winner did a 4:30/mi pace for almost every lap then ran something like a 62 second 400m at the end of the race. I just assume it feels the same as me running a 5:37 mile and it is just a matter of athletic ability.

            Many of us aren't sure what the hell point you are trying to make and no matter how we guess, it always seems to be something else. Which usually means a person is doing it on purpose.

            VDOT 51

            5k19:35 | Marathon 2:59:10

            OMR


              JT:  Looks like your foot is better?  FYI, I've signed up for the Fargo Half Marathon on 9/25.

              Dwave/dps:  Hope both of your tapers are going well.  Fingers crossed for better weather than what we've been having...

               

              My week:

               

              S:  Rest

              M:  9.6M @ 7:52 w/5min @ 10K effort

              T:  8.4M @ 8:25

              W:  7.1M @ 8:33

              T:  8.5M @ 8:15

              F:  9.1M @ 7:44 w/2 x 2K tempo intervals (6:35/mile), 3 x 200m hard

              S:  11.3M Progression Run @ 8:00 overall

               

              Total:  54M

              darkwave


              Mother of Cats

                JT:  Looks like your foot is better?  FYI, I've signed up for the Fargo Half Marathon on 9/25.

                Dwave/dps:  Hope both of your tapers are going well.  Fingers crossed for better weather than what we've been having...

                 

                JTReeves - I'm hoping for good news!

                 

                OMR - a good week for you, with a solid Friday workout.

                 

                A week is still too far to be confident in the weather, but if today's forecast holds, I'd be OK with it - starting in the mid-50s, ending in the mid-60s, dew point in the 40s.

                 

                But I've learned from doing this race that even the forecast the night before can be wrong.  You don't know what you are getting until that morning.  And Two Harbors can be very different from Canal Park.

                Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                 

                And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                JMac11


                Taper Czar

                  DW - I would ask you about your goal, but I know it doesn't even matter during the race since you run by feel. I think you said something like 3:05 to 3:10 though.

                   

                  DPS - same thing: now that you have a week to go, assuming weather is good, what exactly is the goal or is it same as it has been.

                  5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:15:28 (3/20)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                   

                  Next Race: Run to the Brewery 5M (8/1)

                  flavio1980


                  Intl. correspondent

                    My week. A hard but pleasant long run today, very nice park to run on.

                     

                    Weekly for period: From: 06/07/2021 To 06/13/2021

                    Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                    in ft
                    06/08 9x 45s uphill 6.70 10.79 00:52:37 07:51 04:53 144
                    06/09 Morning Run 7.00 11.27 00:57:52 08:16 05:08 167
                    06/10 5 mile progression down to MP 8.01 12.88 01:00:38 07:34 04:42 223
                    06/11 Morning Run 7.01 11.27 00:57:57 08:16 05:09 217
                    06/12 Morning Run 6.21 9.99 00:50:41 08:10 05:04 226
                    06/13 Morning Run 15.01 24.15 01:58:30 07:54 04:54 30

                    Total distance: 49.93mi

                    PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                    Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

                    Tool to generate Strava weekly

                    jhudak55


                      Still catching up on some old posts that I missed. 

                      I got my wisdom teeth removed a little over three weeks ago and the recovery was a lot worse than I had expected. I was hoping to be back to running in three days (stupidly), however it took more like two weeks to feel normal again. Anyway, looking to get back to normal consistent training. 

                      My week

                      30.9 miles

                      M: Off

                      T: 6.1 miles easy (8:26)

                      W: 5 miles easy (8:46)

                      T: 5 miles easy (8:58)

                      F: Off

                      S: 4 miles easy (8:15)

                      S: 10.7 miles easy (8:23) *watch was off so the distance and pace is slightly longer/faster for the first three miles

                      darkwave


                      Mother of Cats

                        DW - I would ask you about your goal, but I know it doesn't even matter during the race since you run by feel. I think you said something like 3:05 to 3:10 though.

                         

                        I've been thinking 3:05, based on my workouts during the peak of the training cycle..  I'll admit that the last two weeks have not been confidence building, but I think that's due to the heat and humidity, which will hopefully be much less in Duluth.

                         

                        Since it's been a while since I've run a marathon, the plan is to go out conservatively and negative split it.  [that's always the plan, but more emphasized now since I'm feeling a bit rusty at marathoning.]

                         

                        Flavio - good 15 miler there - we'll make you into a marathoner yet!

                         

                        JHudak- good to see you back!  Oof on the wisdom teeth.

                         

                        ***

                         

                        My week:

                         

                        47 miles running, 1500 yards swimming, and 2 hours pool-running

                        M: 1 hour pool-running and streaming yoga.
                        T: 9 miles, including a track workout of 4x800, 2x400, 2x200 in 3:04, 3:03, 3:01, 3:03, 90, 86, 41, and 41. Recoveries of 2:35-2:43 between 800s; full recovery for all else. Followed with leg strengthwork and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                        W: 8 miles very easy (9:20), upper body weights/core, and 2 miles very easy (9:05).
                        Th: 1 hour pool-running and DIY yoga.
                        Fr: 10 miles, including a 3 mile tempo on the roads in 19:51 (6:36/6:36/6:39). Followed with injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.
                        Sa: 8 miles very easy (9:21) plus drills and 6 hill sprints, and then upper body weights/core.
                        Su: 10 miles progressive, split as first 3 at 8:40 and next 7 at 7:44. Followed with leg injury prevention work and 500 yards recovery swimming.

                         

                        Tuesday morning's workout was supposed to be five 800s and then some 400s, but I dropped out of the fifth because the heat was getting to me (temp and DP of 75). Took full recovery and then did some 400s and 200s.

                         

                        Friday morning's tempo was just completely waterlogged. At the start of the tempo, it was warm but lightly raining (refreshing). By the third mile, the rain was an utter downpour and the road was starting to flood (I did this on Hains Point, which floods occasionally). Got it done, and hoped that ugly weather in training makes for good weather on race day.

                        Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                         

                        And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                        JTReeves


                          OMR: Nice week; what are you thinking for the 5k coming up? I updated the table with your half marathon. BTW, I also have Morton's toe; though oddly, just on the right foot; on the left it's more of a dead heat with both 2nd and big toes the same length.

                           

                          Flavio: I agree with DW; that's a very respectable 15 miler. What a week in pro running... Gidey takes back the 10,000 WR, Jakob runs a 12:48, and Cheptegei gets smoked! I cannot wait for the Olympics; every running event from 800m to the marathon, for the men and women, should be an incredible race.

                           

                          DW: Good looking taper week. It was brutal weather up here and sounds like even worse where you are, but again, good prep for race day. Less than a week to go! I hope you guys get nice weather for it.

                           

                          jhudak: Glad you are back at it after the dental work. I had my wisdom teeth out a long time ago and it's not something I look back on with pleasant memories.

                           

                          My week was all easy running. I went to the podiatrist and he confirmed I have metatarsalgia. He recommended custom orthotics so I got fitted for those and they should be ready in another week or two. Probably similar to what OMR has, they will have a raised cushioned area behind the base of the 2nd toe to take pressure off it on impact.  He said until the orthotics are ready, what I already am doing (running with a pad taped under my insole) is what I should continue to do, using pain as my guide; ie, if there is any pain, back off. He also wants me to take an anti-inflammatory (I'm using Advil), twice a day, for 2 weeks. I'd like people's thoughts on this. He said it will help keep down the inflammation and help the area to heal, but I'm concerned it is also masking pain at the same time. Running has felt good overall, but anything fast is not going to be possible for a while yet (I tested this yesterday with a minute or so pick-up and felt some pain).

                           

                          Weekly for period: From: 06/07/2021 To 06/13/2021

                          Date Name mi km Duration Avg/mi Avg/km Elevation Gain
                          in ft
                          06/07 Morning Run 10.13 16.30 1:26:24 8:32 5:18 564
                          06/08 Morning Run 6.27 10.08 54:31 8:42 5:25 0
                          06/09 Morning Run 6.02 9.68 48:50 8:07 5:03 0
                          06/10 Morning Run 10.01 16.11 1:19:19 7:55 4:55 518
                          06/12 Morning Run 12.11 19.48 1:34:45 7:49 4:52 636
                          06/13 Lunch Run 6.04 9.71 53:59 8:56 5:34 476

                          Total distance: 50.57 mi

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                          CalBears


                            OMR - decent week. I wish I could sign for some HMs, 10Ks or 5Ks here in California - everything is still no-no here - totally absurd!.

                             

                            flavio - decent week from you too. I know you are relatively new in FM's World, so, I will remind you that real Long Run starts at 16 miles, 15 miler is a Medium Long run - that's a very important distinction (some runners have balls to call 11 miles as a Long Run . This is unacceptable - rules are rules!

                             

                            jhudak - wow, I never thought that a tooth removal could break you for such a long period of time...

                             

                            DW - we start talking about our favorite topic, weather - that means it's a marathon season!

                             

                            JTR - injuries! Better now than later in the training, right? Smile

                             

                            My week was ok, seems like my back is getting stronger as I was able to run all the days except Monday.

                             

                            Mo - off

                            Tu - 8.07 @7:43 (1x1 mile @6:04, 2x800 @5:46,5:48 3x600 @5:40,6:02,5:53 400 jog)

                            We - 6.58 @8:37

                            Th - 11.31 @8:31

                            Fr - 11.32 @8:24

                            Sa - 20.05 @8:19

                            Su - 11.35 @8:54

                            ===

                            Total: 68.7 miles

                            paces PRs - 5K - 5:55  /  10K - 6:05  /  HM - 6:14  /  FM - 6:26 per mile

                            flavio1980


                            Intl. correspondent

                              jhudak - ugh, wisdom teeth removal are the worst. I had 3 removed surgically, 2 in the same day, every time it was a 3 day ordeal and I was not a runner at the time.

                               

                              Darkwave - I think you will surprise yourself at this race. Also, tell us more about your taper madness. It’s not manifesting yet in the form of 15 posts per day about the weather or something like that.

                               

                              JT - Oh man, I so enjoy being able to talk about the elites. The races are going to be chaos in Tokyo. It will also be very warm which makes for good surprises, especially in the marathon.

                              Chep will have a hard time, he’s more of a front runner and if the temps are in the 80’s he can’t run a 12:40 to dust everybody else. 

                              Kiplimo should be the favorite if he can keep form, cause both he and Chep will run from the front.

                              Jakob is in 12:40 pace himself.

                              We could also have a new Kenyan or Ethiopian just come out and blow the doors open, like Ayana did at the Olympics.

                               

                              Cal - Awesome week with 4 long runs in there.

                              PRs: 5K 17:56.7 (2021) 9.86K 36:40 (2020) HM 1:21:59 (2021)

                              Up next: 3 countries marathon - Oct 10th

                              Tool to generate Strava weekly

                              Andres1045


                                 

                                 

                                My week was all easy running. I went to the podiatrist and he confirmed I have metatarsalgia. He recommended custom orthotics so I got fitted for those and they should be ready in another week or two. Probably similar to what OMR has, they will have a raised cushioned area behind the base of the 2nd toe to take pressure off it on impact.  He said until the orthotics are ready, what I already am doing (running with a pad taped under my insole) is what I should continue to do, using pain as my guide; ie, if there is any pain, back off. He also wants me to take an anti-inflammatory (I'm using Advil), twice a day, for 2 weeks. I'd like people's thoughts on this. He said it will help keep down the inflammation and help the area to heal, but I'm concerned it is also masking pain at the same time. Running has felt good overall, but anything fast is not going to be possible for a while yet (I tested this yesterday with a minute or so pick-up and felt some pain).

                                I guess you're asking about the Advil specifically. I don't really know if that's a good or bad idea. Seems like a lot for your body to have to process (twice a day for two weeks), regardless of whether it masks the pain or helps the swelling go down.

                                 

                                But I'd be a little concerned about the rest of the advice. Does your podiatrist run? Before going to mine, I asked around a lot. It seems like there are a lot of bad ones out there. With my issue (again, maybe it wasn't as bad) the podiatrist first checked the X-Ray to confirm it wasn't broken. Then he just felt around, and didn't seem to care too much about the severity, as long as it wasn't broken. I don't remember exactly what he said, but it was something like "I could sell you custom orthotics, but it wouldn't heal much faster and you'd hate me if I made you run in them." He also specifically told me not to run with the cheap pads in. I told him it was quite painful when I ran but that I could get through it. His advice was just to try the pad thing while not running, and if it didn't improve in a month, come back to see what can be done. It did improve so I never had to go back.

                                 

                                Maybe get a second opinion? Although, even if your podiatrist isn't great, he's probably better than some dude on the internet that has no training.

                                Upcoming races: Boston