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GA cop murders jogger (Read 246 times)


MoBramExam

    Then maybe I'm an uncomfortable white person?

     

    Point was, people are assholes and they do asshole stuff to other people. Not always about skin color, sometimes its just because they can. Simple as that.

     

    mikey, actually think we're on the same page on the "what",  just get there a different way with the "why".  (Not to rule out the possibility the two are in fact racist.)

     

    DavePNW, we'll have to agree to disagree.

     



    Julia1971


      Or they were just two dumbasses being vigilante dumbasses and skated for a couple of months from a couple of small town crony DAs. As if they would not have done the same thing to some poor white or brown kid under the exact same set of circumstances?

       

       

      If they would have done the same thing to some poor white kid, then their defense that they were trying to talk to or make a citizens' arrest on a suspect identified as a black man who had been committing robberies in the neighborhood falls apart.  They were looking for a black man.  Oh look, there's one!

       

      Now we get to endure a majority of the national press neglecting the part of the story which takes some of the randomness out of the chain of events that led up to what is on the video. Hey, why not inflame racial tensions on top of the power keg we’re already sitting on for some ratings and a couple of clicks??

       

      Tragic and disgusting this kid had to die this way. Tragic the charges only warrant life instead of the possibility of the death penalty (if the people of GA feel that is not cruel and unusual.)  Tragic opportunist have another event to use to drive a wider wedge between people with otherwise common interests.

       

       

      The press was late on this -  this happened two months ago - so it's hard to see how they're inciting anything.  And while many were outraged when they heard the details of the case, this story didn't go completely viral, IMHO, until the video came out.  From what I understand, the video was released by the defense attorney and not something the media obtained and released.

       

       

      Tragic and disgusting this kid had to die this way. Tragic the charges only warrant life instead of the possibility of the death penalty (if the people of GA feel that is not cruel and unusual.)  Tragic opportunist have another event to use to drive a wider wedge between people with otherwise common interests.

       

       

      What wedge between people with otherwise common interests?  I've seen and read a lot of commentary on running forums about this and with the exception of LetsRun, which can always be counted on to bring out the worst in runners, it seems as though runners are mostly coming together and challenging one another to talk about this uncomfortable topic.

       

       

      I have been running in my suburban neighborhood for years and so everyone knows me.  I joke to friends that I feel like a local celebrity and if anything ever happened to me, the bus drivers would be the ones to report me missing.  However, my family members live in rural areas and for the most part, I don't visit them while I'm marathon training because I'm afraid of a scenario where I might get harassed for not belonging.  So, I will drive to a state park where I feel running would be seen as "normal" rather than running in their neighborhood where someone might think it's unusual - might I say "suspicious" - that a black woman is running in the neighborhood.  So, while it might seem as though this case is putting a wedge where there wasn't one before, the fear of #runningwhileblack has always been a thing for some people.  (Outside Magazine ran a short piece by a black woman runner who is also trying to process this tragedy.)

        Point was, people are assholes and they do asshole stuff to other people. Not always about skin color, sometimes its just because they can. Simple as that

         

        What would make them think they can? What could it be? It's a mystery.

         

        --Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't plan to kill him--

         

        What would make two white men think they could hunt down an unarmed black man, assault him, and hold him at gunpoint with impunity?

        Runners run.


        #artbydmcbride

          Then maybe I'm an uncomfortable white person?

           

          Point was, people are assholes and they do asshole stuff to other people. Not always about skin color, sometimes its just because they can. Simple as that.

           

          mikey, actually think we're on the same page on the "what",  just get there a different way with the "why".  (Not to rule out the possibility the two are in fact racist.)

           

          DavePNW, we'll have to agree to disagree.

           

          Huh, and yet I can't remember the last white jogger who was killed due to imaginary burglaries in a neighborhood.   Racism seems to be  difficult for you to perceive, but it is awfully hard to miss in this instance.

           

          Runners run

          LRB


            I have been running in my suburban neighborhood for years and so everyone knows me.  I joke to friends that I feel like a local celebrity and if anything ever happened to me, the bus drivers would be the ones to report me missing.  However, my family members live in rural areas and for the most part, I don't visit them while I'm marathon training because I'm afraid of a scenario where I might get harassed for not belonging.  So, I will drive to a state park where I feel running would be seen as "normal" rather than running in their neighborhood where someone might think it's unusual - might I say "suspicious" - that a black woman is running in the neighborhood.  So, while it might seem as though this case is putting a wedge where there wasn't one before, the fear of #runningwhileblack has always been a thing for some people.  (Outside Magazine ran a short piece by a black woman runner who is also trying to process this tragedy.)

             

            You took the words right off of my keypad, though I've not always had luck finding "running" places to run while traveling abroad, where the search itself can be more exhausting than a workout (any one of us can relate to that!). This is exacerbated when you visit isolated places where blacks don't run. And for the curious, no, it's not paranoia, it's the reality of the world we live in. This is not a complaint, it's a fact. I've run in rural Ohio and West Virginia while visiting family and on those occasions I've worn the most electric yellow, iridescent green and ridiculous red I own so that the question of "what is he doing" answers itself. It may seem silly but some people in this country got issues man.

             

            Anytime a runner is victimized whilst running regardless of the circumstances I take note because it's something I do so often. We've always been able to discuss them here in a civil manner and I am glad that that is the case now.

             

            I actually wasn't aware of the Ahmaud Arbery murder until I saw the video on Tuesday (a small point of clarification is that is was released by an attorney, not an attorney with connections to the case) and obviously, it's just messed up. I must've watched it 20 times and by Wednesday, I was armed on my run. It was the first time I've carried while running and I'm not really sure why I felt the need. I guess you could say I was paranoid! I don't know, as an American citizen the feeling of helplessness is just something we don't take to kindly to. I mean, in a life or death situation, you want to have the ability to defend yourself. This could be a black guy, white chick, black chick, white guy, Chaldean, Mexican or whatever. It doesn't matter, you don't want to be caught in a situation where you are helpless.

             

            I live in a pretty integrated middle class area where people generally don't mess with other people, for any reason. This is Michigan however and the undertones have been getting louder and louder over the past few years...

             

            Anyhoo, I'm hoping to get back to my normal calm self now that there has been an arrest. Running with a GD gun is not something I want to become a regular part of my life now or ever! Hopefully, this will be a teaching moment for those who would otherwise play vigilante. We've seen in the past where others have walked free, leading to more brazenness, which is what we've been complaining about all along.

            2020 - Adapt 


            MoBramExam

              What would make them think they can? What could it be? It's a mystery.

               

              --Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they didn't plan to kill him--

               

              What would make two white men think they could hunt down an unarmed black man, assault him, and hold him at gunpoint with impunity?

              They live in area where cronyism and the old-boy network rule.  If you're part of that network, you're bullet proof.  How often do you not see it also with society's elite.  You originally pointed out that they didn't even bother to concoct a defense that made any sense. They didn't have to. Why it sounds like BS is because its BS.  You attribute that to the skin color of the victim. I'm attributing that to Mr. Arbery's position in the community pecking order.

               

              Did they plan to kill him?  Both of us can only speculate. I would say, no. I get the sense, from the details of the initial assault, there was some "personal" rather than "racial" aspect as to why they took the initiative to go after him in the manner they did. They brought guns for intimidation (always stupid idea), and the worst possible outcome happened.  We'll know for sure over the next few weeks and I'll acknowledge I could be wrong.

               

              Julia1971 - Above starts to address your first point. My opinion was that it was "personal"; they were not acting as good citizens in the community's best interest. My comment was that if they were looking for a white or brown kid, they would have acted the same.

               

              Point two related to national headline's emphasis on "white", "black", "cop" and "hate crime" over the actual act. mikeymike perceived the reaction to be from being made uncomfortable because the intent was call racism, racism. My point was that there is an attempt by some, with a large forum, to call actions "racism" in this manner for other motives. It can have the effect of framing such an event in a manner that inhibits some of the real and necessary conversations to actually begin. I'll be honest here and take my lumps, but I do not agree with the premise of a hate crime. Murder is murder, assault is assault. all that matters is that both are human on human. Well aware many others, maybe the majority, feel differently.

               

              Sorry you feel the way you do about rural areas, but think about what you just said to a person from a rural area. We have all had personal life experiences that form our levels of wellness. We can only pretend to understand some things ourselves that we have not lived day-to-day. I don't know you, but I do know one common interest we share is running. And I can assure you that if you were in my rural area and you were running with me or my rural friends, you would have no reason to be afraid of any scenario where you might get harassed for not belonging. Best I can do on the last one.

               

              Thanks all for the conversation.

               



              DavePNW


                 

                Chaldean

                 

                Your Detroit is showing. 

                Dave

                Julia1971


                  Julia1971 - Above starts to address your first point. My opinion was that it was "personal"; they were not acting as good citizens in the community's best interest. My comment was that if they were looking for a white or brown kid, they would have acted the same.

                   

                  Point two related to national headline's emphasis on "white", "black", "cop" and "hate crime" over the actual act. mikeymike perceived the reaction to be from being made uncomfortable because the intent was call racism, racism. My point was that there is an attempt by some, with a large forum, to call actions "racism" in this manner for other motives. It can have the effect of framing such an event in a manner that inhibits some of the real and necessary conversations to actually begin. I'll be honest here and take my lumps, but I do not agree with the premise of a hate crime. Murder is murder, assault is assault. all that matters is that both are human on human. Well aware many others, maybe the majority, feel differently.

                   

                  Sorry you feel the way you do about rural areas, but think about what you just said to a person from a rural area. We have all had personal life experiences that form our levels of wellness. We can only pretend to understand some things ourselves that we have not lived day-to-day. I don't know you, but I do know one common interest we share is running. And I can assure you that if you were in my rural area and you were running with me or my rural friends, you would have no reason to be afraid of any scenario where you might get harassed for not belonging. Best I can do on the last one.

                   

                  Thanks all for the conversation.

                   

                  Given how so many people are shocked and surprised when this happens in their community, I'm going to go ahead and do the things that make me feel a little safer.

                   

                  My comment about the rural areas was based on my opinion that they tend to notice strangers because there are fewer people around and, perhaps for that reason, have guns.  Therefore, I'm really not that interested.  I do well enough to afford a rental car and hotel room when I visit relatives so that's what I do.

                  Julia1971


                     

                    You took the words right off of my keypad, though I've not always had luck finding "running" places to run while traveling abroad, where the search itself can be more exhausting than a workout (any one of us can relate to that!). This is exacerbated when you visit isolated places where blacks don't run. And for the curious, no, it's not paranoia, it's the reality of the world we live in. This is not a complaint, it's a fact. I've run in rural Ohio and West Virginia while visiting family and on those occasions I've worn the most electric yellow, iridescent green and ridiculous red I own so that the question of "what is he doing" answers itself. It may seem silly but some people in this country got issues man.

                     

                    Anytime a runner is victimized whilst running regardless of the circumstances I take note because it's something I do so often. We've always been able to discuss them here in a civil manner and I am glad that that is the case now.

                     

                    I actually wasn't aware of the Ahmaud Arbery murder until I saw the video on Tuesday (a small point of clarification is that is was released by an attorney, not an attorney with connections to the case) and obviously, it's just messed up. I must've watched it 20 times and by Wednesday, I was armed on my run. It was the first time I've carried while running and I'm not really sure why I felt the need. I guess you could say I was paranoid! I don't know, as an American citizen the feeling of helplessness is just something we don't take to kindly to. I mean, in a life or death situation, you want to have the ability to defend yourself. This could be a black guy, white chick, black chick, white guy, Chaldean, Mexican or whatever. It doesn't matter, you don't want to be caught in a situation where you are helpless.

                     

                    I live in a pretty integrated middle class area where people generally don't mess with other people, for any reason. This is Michigan however and the undertones have been getting louder and louder over the past few years...

                     

                    Anyhoo, I'm hoping to get back to my normal calm self now that there has been an arrest. Running with a GD gun is not something I want to become a regular part of my life now or ever! Hopefully, this will be a teaching moment for those who would otherwise play vigilante. We've seen in the past where others have walked free, leading to more brazenness, which is what we've been complaining about all along.

                     

                    I am going through a bit of an existential crisis right now...  Last month, I was asked to be interviewed about the lack of diversity in ultra-running and I declined.  As the woman in the article wrote, I didn't want the wrath of internet trolls visited upon me.  And, I also told myself that I'm really not the right person to talk about it because I've only run one ultra.  But, in the past 48 hours, I've been having second thoughts. It's occurring to me that I was asked because it's that rare.

                     

                    Edited to add: in my haste to respond, I realize my comment probably didn't make sense...  I'm glad you posted this.  I think we need to speak up and talk about our experiences, even if we're not quite sure what we're saying and how it might be interpreted.  And, II can't imagine how watching that film must have made you feel and I'm so sorry you felt the need to carry on your run recently.

                      White guy runs through neighborhood with stolen TV.  Let's see what happens.

                       

                      https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1259228163315564544?s=20

                      Julia1971


                        I just saw this New York Times piece on runners who have anxiety about running while black.

                        rlopez


                          Pretty sure I know what would happen if a couple of "angry black men" with a shotgun chased a white jogger**, got in a fight with him, and shot him. If your inclination to what DID happen is "well, he should have just stopped and everything would have been ok", then I hope you'd say the same in my reversi situation. Except insert white privilege, none of that really matters.

                          HEY EVERYONE - want another story about the dipshit DA who declined to do anything about this two months ago? That cat is named George Barnhill. You may or may not remember the story about the Georgia grandmother, who just so happens to be black, that got charged with felony election fraud because she had helped a young gal who didn't know how the voting machine worked a few years prior. She showed the young gal how the machine worked. Boom, felony. That was our man George who went after her.

                          And he did it to her TWICE.

                          ** If your inclination is to roll your eyes that I used the J-word or call me a not-a-runner, shoo.

                          LRB


                             Your Detroit is showing. 

                             

                            Right? If there is a larger contingent in the US than here, I haven't seen it.

                            2020 - Adapt 

                            DavePNW


                               

                              Right? If there is a larger contingent in the US than here, I haven't seen it.

                               

                              There is not. According to some quick internetting, there are 120k in Metro Detroit, and another 150k spread across the rest of the US.

                              Dave

                              LRB


                                And, II can't imagine how watching that film must have made you feel and I'm so sorry you felt the need to carry on your run recently.

                                 

                                It's cool. It wasn't because I was fearful, it was because I'm not about to play that stupid shit with anyone, I got guns too (even though running with one is completely ridiculous!). In all honesty, I just hadn't had enough time to make sense of it all before my next and subsequent runs. It knocked me off of my square. I just need to re-center myself and get back to being me.

                                 

                                I live in a great community, roughly 75% of the miles I've run have been here. I've never had an issue or anything that can be construed as an issue. I know a million people and even more know me, "Hey, aren't you that runner dude?". Having said all of that you just never know when your path will cross with the wrong person at the wrong time (true for any of us on any occasion). And sometimes you just get adventurous. 3 or 4 miles in a particular direction can put you in an entirely different neighborhood where you're not "known". We've all done it. The worst that should happen is that you get lost and end up running 9 or 10 instead of the 7 or 8 you were planning, not a confrontation with some clown(s) playing Barney bad ass.

                                2020 - Adapt 

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