2022 Advanced Marathoning Thread (Read 299 times)

dpschumacher


37 going on 60

    My name is Dan.  I am 37 and live in Minneapolis.  I ran DIII in college in MN.  After 5-ish years of no running I started again on 1/1/2019.  I am married and have 2 kids (4 and 1).

     

    I set PR's in the Marathon (Grandma's Marathon, 2:39) and Half Marathon (Uff Da Half Marathon,1:18) and 10 Mile (Twin Cities 10 Mile 58:16) last year.  I ran a second Marathon in the fall after a rough training cycle trying to recover from Grandma's (Mankato Marathon 2:44).  I learned that 2 marathons in 4 months is too quick of a turn around.

     

    This year I'm going to run Grandma's Marathon as a peak race in June (sub 2:36:59 or better) and then try to break my 5k (16:02), 10k (35:19), and 10 mile road (58:16) PRs in the fall.  I've run some faster track races but hoping to get some.

     

    My training log is open. 4000 mile +/- 200 miles the last 2 year.

     

    2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

    Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

    10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

    5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

     

    2022 Goals

    Marathon Sub 2:37 

    10k Sub 35:00

    5k Sub 16:00

    HermosaBoy


      I ran a second Marathon in the fall after a rough training cycle trying to recover from Grandma's (Mankato Marathon 2:44). 

       

      Mankato has never been a good course and then last year they changed it and made it worse!!! When I ran it a few years ago, I was alone for probably 22 of the 26 miles...

      And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

       

      Rob

      dpschumacher


      37 going on 60

        Yeah. It was a two loop in 2021 and I had to run through 10k walkers the first loop and back of pack half marathon second loop. Took 3rd over all. If they had not changed the course I wouldn't mind the hills and running solo, it is running through runners running half my pace that is rough.

         

         

        Mankato has never been a good course and then last year they changed it and made it worse!!! When I ran it a few years ago, I was alone for probably 22 of the 26 miles...

         

        2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

        Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

        10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

        5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

         

        2022 Goals

        Marathon Sub 2:37 

        10k Sub 35:00

        5k Sub 16:00

        HermosaBoy


          Yeah. It was a two loop in 2021 and I had to run through 10k walkers the first loop and back of pack half marathon second loop. Took 3rd over all. If they had not changed the course I wouldn't mind the hills and running solo, it is running through runners running half my pace that is rough.

           

           

          Prize money for 3rd still $50?

          And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

           

          Rob

          dpschumacher


          37 going on 60

            Just a limestone plaque.

             

            2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

            Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

            10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

            5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

             

            2022 Goals

            Marathon Sub 2:37 

            10k Sub 35:00

            5k Sub 16:00

            HermosaBoy


              Just a limestone plaque.

               

              They are nice plaques!!!

              And you can quote me as saying I was mis-quoted. Groucho Marx

               

              Rob

              JMac11


              Milkman

                I'm so happy to see so many new faces!

                 

                coachbrook - welcome aboard! Amazing you say you have 30K+ miles but relatively low mileage recently. You're probably the opposite of many people here who were adult-onset runners, or very terrible school runners (like me). You will find that training theory wise, me and darkwave are constantly talking about this stuff. I have followed Daniels religiously because he has taken from me a 3:12 down to a 2:36, but I know he has some flaws and I've adjusted some of my plans vs. strictly following what he says (some of which is preference, not necessarily flaws in his approach).

                 

                DW - I saw the new TS's come out recently and thought of you! I just checked my shoes: they are version 5, so way back (and of course I picked them up in Tokyo, I don't think they were sold in the USA). I am totally interested in the new version 8s though: I wonder if they'll be better for 5K/10K than the VF, which I still have never loved for shorter distances. I may have to give them a try. I assume you stayed away from the 8s because they're moving away from the traditional TS structure of a very low stack height?

                 

                Zebano - my dog only wants to run for 3-4 miles. I know that DPS's dog can do run 8-10 miles with him, so he probably has good tips.

                 

                Ace - same for me on treadmills. I'm not mentally tough enough to run on them. You're up first on the marathon list so I imagine your 10 miler is important in terms of assessing fitness. What's the goal?

                 

                Keen - so glad you like them! If you ever need something in between those (which are like an oven and I can only wear in teens or lower) and super light running gloves (which only work for me in 35+), I REALLY like these Wind Gloves. They're overpriced on Amazon but you can find them elsewhere for cheaper. Having that extra flap for wind/rain protection is great as it's a way to basically layer your gloves without wearing multiple pairs. I run without the flap in the 30s, and then with the flap in the 20s or super windy days when I'm running into the wind.

                 

                DPS - welcome board! Let's hope both of our training shows around 2:35 and we can run Grandma's together. LONG way to go.

                 

                 

                 

                I don't have much to report. I am continuing to slowly build easy mileage as I recover from all my hip issues. Things are progressing nicely and I've stopped going to PT. Definitely not 100% as the labrum tear is still getting me but stable enough that I feel good about my plan. I'll start posting weeklies once I get back to 70 MPW with workouts, which should be in late January / early February.

                5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                 

                Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

                  @JMac - You nailed it. I started in 8th grade and by high school was running pretty consistently. I ran a ton in college and even post collegiately for a few years and really racked up the miles. In the past few years cycling has been more of the priority for myself, although I have been connected to the running community through coaching. A lot of my switch to cycling has been over frustration with recurring injuries. I am hoping that I can finally get past that and make a real return!

                   

                  As for Daniels, obviously he's the man. I like and have used a lot of his stuff, although modified for my athletes. Personally I am really starting to lean more toward an easy hard method based on recent research while still using workouts from guys like Daniels and Noakes. I often apply a lot of what I learned while running for and with Steve Spence back when he was training as a new masters level runner. Yes, he used to beat us young college guys up pretty good even though he was 40+! I love to take concepts and workouts from different resources and apply them in the context of consistent mileage. Training is personal and an art, there is no "perfect" plan.

                  Next Races: Fools Run 10 mile (4/2/22), York Marathon (5/15/2214/23), Stupid Marathon TT (June 2022)

                  SteveChCh


                  Hot Weather Complainer

                    Wow, it's going to be hard to keep up with these threads at this pace.  Maybe easier now that I'm back at work, definitely less inclined to be on the computer during summer holidays.

                     

                    Treadmills - When I was getting back into running after a knee issue I thought I needed to do all my running on treadmills.  You do get used to it but it doesn't feel quite "real" when it's all you do.  I'm not sure the exact cause of my sore knee back then, possibly tight ITB or possibly the fact that I lived in Melbourne where most footpaths are concrete rather than asphalt, but eventually I got off the treadmill and on to some softer surfaces and all was good.

                     

                    I'm hearing on some of my podcasts about the atrocious weather in the DC area so I'm sure darkwave will be giving Fluffy a workout.  I've definitely had some motivation issues in the last few weeks with all the holidays, warmer weather and occasional hangovers.  Hopefully when I start treating my body a bit better, my body will start enjoy the training again.

                    Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                    Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                    Race plan:  Wellington Half Marathon June 19, 2022 (likely marathon tempo session). Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                    JMac11


                    Milkman

                      Wow, it's going to be hard to keep up with these threads at this pace.  Maybe easier now that I'm back at work, definitely less inclined to be on the computer during summer holidays.

                       

                       

                       

                       

                      This thread moves nowhere near the pace the sub 1:30 thread does. Then again, at least 1/3 of the posts there are about cricket matches, NZ-specific issues, or what color shorts you should wear. In all seriousness though, I probably will mainly stick here for that reason: the 1:30 thread is moving way too fast for me and it's hard to keep up, especially running this thread this year.

                       

                      Also Steve - you need to run while hungover. I am an expert at that and am convinced at this point that it is the only thing that actually cures my hangovers. Nothing like a nice 60 minutes to sweat out the toxins.

                      5K: 16:37 (11/20)  |  10K: 34:49 (10/19)  |  HM: 1:14:57 (5/22)  |  FM: 2:36:31 (12/19) 

                       

                      Next Race: Grandma's Marathon (6/18)

                      SteveChCh


                      Hot Weather Complainer

                        I spent Sunday at a gig in the sun, drinking beers.  Monday morning was spent in pain town and I only managed to run about 1:30pm, obviously a silly time of the day in summer.  I actually felt okay until I stopped when I felt like I had bad motion sickness.  I think I'll avoid too many days like that!

                        Net Downhill PB Southern Lakes Half Marathon 2022 1:27:32, Flat Course PB Christchurch 2016 1:29.25

                        Recent Races:   Southern Lakes Half Marathon 1:27:32 May 7, 2022, Motorway 10km 40:49 February 27, 2022, Selwyn Running Festival Half-Marathon 1:29:32  November 7, 2021

                        Race plan:  Wellington Half Marathon June 19, 2022 (likely marathon tempo session). Melbourne Marathon October 2, 2022.  Queenstown Half Marathon November 19, 2022

                          Cold and Carbon Plated Shoes....

                           

                          Anyone else find that the carbon plated shoes really stiffen up in the cold? I know that cold can and often does effect other shoes, but this morning I was doing a little workout and man the Carbon Xs really felt stiff! Temps were in the teens, so it was chilly but not cold cold yet.

                           

                          I think the Minnesota boys might be best suited to this question, also possibly Darkwave. I'm a wimp and just use the treadmill when the temp gets below about 15 F.

                           

                          That's cool you ran with/for Spence! So was he your college coach? That would have to be a bonus for recruiting having him as coach. I'm curious, what were your events in track in college?

                           

                          I love the bluntness of Tim Noakes, especially in his Running Injuries book. Page 91, under specific treatment for chronic muscle tears, is classic Noakes.

                          2:52:16 (2018)

                             

                            I think the Minnesota boys might be best suited to this question, also possibly Darkwave. I'm a wimp and just use the treadmill when the temp gets below about 15 F.

                             

                            That's cool you ran with/for Spence! So was he your college coach? That would have to be a bonus for recruiting having him as coach. I'm curious, what were your events in track in college?

                             

                            I love the bluntness of Tim Noakes, especially in his Running Injuries book. Page 91, under specific treatment for chronic muscle tears, is classic Noakes.

                            Yeah I ran for Spence back in 2001-2003. I never ran an outdoor track season there due to various issues, mostly accrued during indoors. I ran everything from 800m on the DMR team to 5k. I was better in XC than track though, and I am always slightly embarrassed of my mediocre PR's considering what I could/should have been able to do. Honestly I just didn't race that much in track so I never got a chance to really be "fast". Spence was an awesome coach (still is) and I respect him highly. There are a lot of things I learned since then that I would do differently now and I think I would have been far more healthy. I don't blame him really, it was more me. I did get to run with him quite often though, and he was really quite quick at that point (14:30's 5k type quick if I remember correctly). I have some great stories of crazy workouts we did together!

                             

                            I read most of The Lore of Running by Noakes and enjoyed thinking about his central governor model. I certainly take that line of thinking into consideration as I mentally prepare my athletes to train and race.

                            Next Races: Fools Run 10 mile (4/2/22), York Marathon (5/15/2214/23), Stupid Marathon TT (June 2022)

                            darkwave


                            Mother of Cats

                              I'm hearing on some of my podcasts about the atrocious weather in the DC area so I'm sure darkwave will be giving Fluffy a workout.

                               

                              Hah - yeah, that one sucker punched us.  It was 60 degrees F (15 C) for my long run on Sunday.  The weather people were screaming about a significant Monday snowstorm, and I laughed like everyone else.  This always happens - they insist we're going to have snow, but either it doesn't cool down enough so we get rain, or it snows but doesn't stick because the ground is too warm.

                               

                              Joke's on me.  We got at least 7 inches, which is a decent snow by Northern Virginia standards.  And now we're in this lovely cycle where it's rising just above freezing during the day (so a bit of melting) and then we freeze again at night, making everything an ice rink (snow is easier to deal with when it stays cold, because then it stays snow).   I suspect I'll be on the treadmill most of this week, as long as we don't lose power (fingers crossed).

                               

                              Regarding plated shoes and cold weather - I've tested the original Vaporflies out in 15 degrees F (-9 C) and they were fine.  Haven't tried any other supershoes in those conditions, just because I don't run in supershoes that much, and it's rare for us to get more than a few sub-20 degrees F days each winter.

                              Everyone's gotta running blog; I'm the only one with a POOL-RUNNING blog.

                               

                              And...if you want a running Instagram where all the pictures are of cats, I've got you covered.

                              dpschumacher


                              37 going on 60

                                Hoka carbon x and rockets are the firmest foam of all carbon shoes. They are rocks in the cold. I didn't use carbon x below 40. They don't have much grip either and very risky on any ice with the high stack height. I would stick to basic trainers. That is what I used today (new balance propel).

                                 

                                2021 Goals for my 2 marathon cycles this year

                                Marathon Sub 2:40 2:39:27 Grandma's Marathon 6/19/21

                                10k Sub 35:00 in Marathon build

                                5k Sub 16:30 in Marathon build /16:34 BK5K Memorial Day 2021

                                 

                                2022 Goals

                                Marathon Sub 2:37 

                                10k Sub 35:00

                                5k Sub 16:00