2018 Sub-3. No rules. Run. (Read 788 times)

    Hi all, can anyone help with target training paces for a sub 3 attempt?  I'm going to do a Pfitzinger plan which includes runs at "15k to half marathon" pace and 5k pace.  Any general suggestions for any of the paces assuming I'm shooting for somewhere in the 2:55-2:59 range?


    I am aware that paces should generally be based on fitness, not goal, but my last marathon was pretty close so I'd just like to better understand where the paces should be.  Thanks in advance.


    Do you not have any 5k or half marathon races to work from? If not, I'd strongly suggest racing some 5k's and a HM or two.


    But in general, I'd think to be in sub-3 shape you'd need your 5k pace to be around 6:00 or under, and your HM to be around 6:20-6:30. YMMV, of course.

    Runners run.


      Thanks that is helpful.  I ran a 15k last year but other than that no shorter races so just trying to gauge where those training paces should be approximately.


        Thanks guys.  And mikkey be nice I’m still 39 for another 6 weeks ha ha.  Lela I’m running California International in December.  Should be fun


        Big guy which Pfitz plan are you using? I loved his plans early in my running career.  Gets you really fit.  I used the long MP tempos to dictate what I thought I could run for my first marathon and then went out and surpassed all my expectations.  Good luck

        HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04


          Swim I'm planning to try the 18-85.  I did the 18-70 plan last fall and ran a 3:04 so I'm hoping the extra miles (and correct training paces) can take 4+ minutes off my time.  We shall see!


            I like to use the Daniels running calculator which will give you other equivalent and training paces based on your rough 3 hr marathon time.  I've been using these for quite some time now and they seem pretty close for me anyways:



            5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)


              I second the Daniels/vDot running calculator. The training paces are helpful, as are the equivalents. I tend to fall pretty close on those equivalents with vDot than McMillan or some of the other calculators.

              Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

              Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)


              2019 Lineup: Winter Warrior Half (1/5) {1:21:14}, NYC Half (3/17), Boston (4/15)





                Thanks all not running shorter races I don’t have any concept of whether what “feels” fast actually “is” fast so this is very helpful.


                  Big Guy - I've used Pfitz 18/70 and 12/70. When first starting out, I aimed for a 6:40 Marathon Pace, but as they got longer they moved more toward 6:50. For the tempo runs (as I call the 15k-HM runs), I aimed for 6:25-:30. Shorter track work I aimed for 6:00 pace.


                  Before starting the training on my first go, I trained for a 1:25 half. That helped me feel like I could start the training for a sub-3. Along the way I brought my half PR down to 1:23:32. That was about 5 weeks before the full and gave me a decent confidence level of getting it.


                  I also made sure most all of my runs were on the the same type of terrain as the planned full which was rolling hills.


                    Thanks for the welcome Mikkey, finbad and lela094.


                    Getting so close to the 3 hour mark but missing it on a hot day stung a bit.  I also feel like speed was there but struggle with endurnce too.  I will be ready this go around.  Leaning toward racing Indy or Cal international.  Indy is a bit easier travel wise and as a teacher, taking time off in december can be difficult.  So thats probaly my next attempt.

                    PRs. 5k-17:50 10k-36:44 Half Marathon - 1:22:36  Marathon-3:00:59

                    Follow me www.runcanvas.wordpress.org


                      Mommy welcome.   Indy s a smokin fast race.  Good choice.


                      80 total this week.  Tweeked my right calf a little on Wed but it got better as the week went on.


                      mon 10 7:43

                      Tue 10 7:28

                      Wed 13 with 10x3:00 (5:40) with 90 sec jog

                      thurs 10 7:51

                      fri 10 7:31

                      sat 11 7:23

                      sun 16 as 8E 3 at M effort (6:18) 2T (5:37) 3E 6:55 total

                      HM: 1/17 1:18:53. FM: 12/18 2:46:04


                        MommyRuns, I have heard awesome things about Indy- sounds like a great choice to go for it there, should have people around you too which helps!


                        Swim- great week, hope the calf is okay!


                        Well, it's officially race week so here we are. Last week was a light taper week (40 miles)....Wednesday I did 12 w/10 at MP and felt pretty decent. Saturday did 12 x 45 seconds just to get the legs moving a bit, humidity killed that and was a bit sore from getting a leg massage the night before. Last double digit sunday (12) went much better though. Should be a good race week, low key. I'm running the JP Morgan Corporate Challenge Tuesday but not all out racing obviously. Going to run with a friend and help her run 6:30ish paces.


                        Buffalo is on Sunday, weather is looking....interesting. Most likely be in the  70's with 80%+ humidity. Start is at 6:30 so that should help temp wise, but could be soupy morning. Still time for it to shift, we will see. Trying not to get too wrapped up in that, can't control it so is what it is!

                        Pre-Baby PR's (all from 2015): 5k: 18:46  10k: 38:37 HM: 1:24:51 FM: 2:58:13

                        Postpartum PR's: 5k: 18:18 (2018)  HM: 1:21:14 (2019) FM: 2:57:06 (2018-12 mo PP)


                        2019 Lineup: Winter Warrior Half (1/5) {1:21:14}, NYC Half (3/17), Boston (4/15)





                          Swim: Another great week and killer mixed LR effort in there as well.  Hope the leg behaves itself.


                          Lela: Best of luck this week.  Rest up!  Good attitude about the weather, it is nothing you can control, but you have a few more days for the forecast to moderate some.  Either way your training has been strong and you are ready.


                          Nothing significant to note in my week except the humidity is off the charts recently.  Kept most of my milage towards the EZ side of things even if I have noticed the pace speeding up a bit on some runs with what I assume are some fresher legs (with no big workouts recently).  Another week or two of EZ mileage coming up.


                          Weekly Summary
                          Monday, May 14, 2018 thru Sunday, May 20, 2018

                          <tfoot> </tfoot>
                          Day Miles Pace Description Link
                          Mon 7.2 7:30 Muggy! strava
                          Tue 8.2 7:14 EZ + strides strava
                          Wed 8.2 7:44 Pacing a few bridge repeats before coffee & donuts strava
                          Thu 8.2 7:18 Yay for a dew point of 78 🔥 strava
                          Fri 9.1 7:38 EZ w/ Jen & Jon strava
                          Sat 8.1 7:02 Progression to moderate strava
                          Sun 13.1 7:39 Splish Splash 💦 strava
                            62.1 7:28    

                          5K: 16:44 (11/18)  |  10K: 36:09 (2/18)  |  HM: 1:17:15 (12/18)  |  FM: 2:48:58 (1/18)


                          A street-wise Hercules

                            Lela - training has had all the right signs for a good result, I like the idea of another race at sub max effort to give you an alternative focus.


                            Swim - hope the leg behaves


                            my week

                            tuesday - 6 mins, 8x 1min, 6 mins. Recommend this workout, first time I've done it but feels like lots of bang

                            thursday - raced a 10k, 35:09, which is a PB, so should be happy but got a massive stitch at 9k and was passed by about 10 people. This should have been about 40 seconds lower. Immediately drove home and signed up for another one on Sunday to try and get my revenge.


                            Also looks like my NYC based in-laws are having another kid and have conveniently planned for it to coincide with Boston next year so I may be able join in with the madness next year.

                            Upcoming; 23rd February Scottish national XC 10k championship,10th March Balloch to Clydebank half marathon, 31st March Alloa half marathon, 15th April Boston marathon


                              This thread seems to have slowed down a bit, so I guess it's time for me to stop lurking and officially join for the fall season. For those of you who don't know me, here is my short bio:


                              Male, age 31, living in New York. Ran in high school, albeit it relatively poorly (all my times now are better than they were then). Started up again a few years ago and have been continually building up annual mileage and knocking down PRs. Last year was my most successful year to date, hitting PRs in every single distance. My goal race this year is the NYC marathon.


                              After the NYC marathon last year, I started experiencing very odd foot pain. I lost about 3 months of running after that trying every treatment in the book until I really worked hard on my running form, which seemed to solve it within a couple of weeks. I've been in quite a mileage deficit this year though because of that (569 miles YTD, about 40% less than last year at this point) so it's been a long battle back. I'm back to running around 50 mpw though. I've focused on the 5K/10K distance this spring as a way to build up a base without putting in crazy mileage, plus it's fun to train for different distances sometimes. I'm heading into a goal race next week (3.5 mile race) with another 10K followed shortly after.


                              I plan on starting my NYC marathon training July 1 with Daniels 2Q program. I used an abbreviated version of it last year and found it to be perfect for me: helped get me prepared while also allowing me to look forward to those beastly quality workouts.


                              Glad to see some new faces in here.


                              Lela - best of luck this weekend! Looks like we are both running the Corp Challenge this week in NYC, although I'll be racing it. As I mentioned I've been training for the 5K/10K distance this spring so I'm hoping to put up a decent time there. The key of course is to get up front because nobody knows how to line up well in that race. I'm shooting for breaking 20 minutes, but it's tricky with the hills and weather to time it well.

                              5K: 17:51 (5/18)  |  10K: 36:21 (9/18)  |  HM: 1:20:39 (5/17)  |  FM: 2:46:17 (11/18) 


                              Next Race: NYC Half (3/17/19)

                              Goal Race: Boston (4/15/19)

                              Elite Jogger

                                BigGuy - You are very welcome to post on here as it’s always good to see new faces. 👍


                                MommyRuns - I’m looking forward to seeing your training and from what I heard a 3:01 at Boston 2016 would’ve been a comfortable Sub 3 under normal weather conditions so I think your endurance is good...and CIM is faster so hopefully you can go 2:50. 👍


                                Swim - Is the calf feeling better and have you officially registered for CIM? You might get to meet the Russian legend Calbears! 😀


                                Lela - I hope the weather is ok on Sunday as you’ve had a great marathon cycle. Bib number?


                                Weatherboy - Enjoy the cutback 60 mile weeks. 😀


                                Finbad - Running a 35min 10k and getting passed by 10 people seems hard to believe unless it was a huge race!  So Boston next year would be major No.4? You’ll have to run all of them now!


                                Jmac - Great to see you back and running NYC again!

                                5k - 18:29 (2018)   10k - 37:53 (2018)   Half - 1:22:06 (2017)   Full - 2:51:32 (2016)


                                Next Up:  Surrey Half - 10th March.    Brighton Mary - 14th April.    London Mary - 28th April