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Comparing Times - Dirt Versus Pavement (Read 125 times)

    I posted an introductory thread a while ago that explains my full background.  In summation, I used to run many years ago but switched to being an avid cyclist.  I’m now focusing on running while doing some cycling as cross-training.

     

    One of my running goals is to beat my 10K time of 41:15 from 29 years ago.  Back then I did all pavement running.  Now it’s just the opposite as I’m doing my running on a dirt rail trail.  I plan to eventually start incorporating a little pavement so when I do a race, it won’t be totally new.  I’m taking it cautiously due to wanting to prevent injury.  I feel like the dirt running has been a significant factor in my remaining relatively injury-free so far.

     

    I’m curious if my times on dirt would be a bit faster if they were converted to pavement.  Does anyone have experience in doing both and could compare times over the same distance, dirt versus pavement, run at comparable intensities?

     

    For instance, I recently ran 5.60 miles on dirt in 42:13.  It wasn’t an all-out effort but I pushed fairly hard.  I think it could be a decent benchmark to see how far I have to progress to beat that 10K time from long ago.  Assuming similar elevation gain and effort, what would that 42:13 be if it was run on pavement?

    Personal Records:

    5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

    10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

    8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

    Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

    rlopez


      Well, there's trail and then there's TRAIL. It really depends on the surface. "Dirt" can mean all kinds of stuff, some of which is zippy for running, and some of which notsomuch. Then there are those pesky rocks and roots to consider... or not, again, depending on the trail. Also grade. Trail hills can be a lot gnarlier than road hills, but not always (I do see your last comment about "similar grade").

       

      Net/net - I find that I benchmark myself on specific trail sections to compare performance... but there's no "x" factor for me to convert that to a road time. And I have to repeat performance on the same piece of trail.

      One last thing is rain/mud. A section of trail that can be quite road-like on a warm summer day can be a different thing altogether if it has been raining for a week straight.

        Well, there's trail and then there's TRAIL. It really depends on the surface. "Dirt" can mean all kinds of stuff, some of which is zippy for running, and some of which notsomuch. Then there are those pesky rocks and roots to consider... or not, again, depending on the trail. Also grade. Trail hills can be a lot gnarlier than road hills, but not always (I do see your last comment about "similar grade").

         

        Net/net - I find that I benchmark myself on specific trail sections to compare performance... but there's no "x" factor for me to convert that to a road time. And I have to repeat performance on the same piece of trail.

        One last thing is rain/mud. A section of trail that can be quite road-like on a warm summer day can be a different thing altogether if it has been raining for a week straight.

         

        The rail trail I run on is well kept and fairly flat.  I don’t have to worry about roots or rocks.  I have to cross a couple of streets and on those brief forays onto pavement, it just seems like I’m going faster for the same effort and get more rebound from my shoes. 

         

        The type of dirt absorbs moisture pretty well so there hasn’t been much mud.  The area has had a lot of rain though so it’s a little spongy.

        Personal Records:

        5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

        10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

        8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

        Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

          I can't seem to modify my misquote above.

           

          This was my reply:

          The rail trail I run on is well kept and fairly flat.  I don’t have to worry about roots or rocks.  I have to cross a couple of streets and on those brief forays onto pavement, it just seems like I’m going faster for the same effort and get more rebound from my shoes.

           

          The type of dirt absorbs moisture pretty well so there hasn’t been much mud.  The area has had a lot of rain though so it’s a little spongy.

          Personal Records:

          5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

          10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

          8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

          Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

          paul2432


            If you google cinder track vs modern track you’ll find lots of articles and threads in various websites and forums.  Looking at a few the difference seems to be about 1 second per lap or 4 seconds/mile.

             

            Your dirt trail is probably a little worse than a cinder track, so maybe 5-10 seconds/mile.

             

            If you have a heart rate monitor (wrist may not be good enough for this) you could compare heart rate at the same pace on different surfaces)

              If you google cinder track vs modern track you’ll find lots of articles and threads in various websites and forums.  Looking at a few the difference seems to be about 1 second per lap or 4 seconds/mile.

               

              Your dirt trail is probably a little worse than a cinder track, so maybe 5-10 seconds/mile.

               

              If you have a heart rate monitor (wrist may not be good enough for this) you could compare heart rate at the same pace on different surfaces)

               

               

              Thanks.  If the difference is in the 5-10 second range per mile, I don’t have all that far to go to reach my goal 10K time.  Taking off 10 seconds per mile would put me at around 7:20/mile pace now and need to get under 6:40/mile.  Of course, those 40 seconds I know will be harder to pare down than the initial gains I’ve made.

              Personal Records:

              5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

              10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

              8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

              Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

                Jason, one factor that might take 20-30 seconds/mile off your pace when you are racing on pavement instead of running on dirt trails; Girls will be watching.

                 

                (4:50-5:10 in video clip)

                 

                https://hah.life/video/ylC1SEs20rDw/-/Scott%20Pilgrim%20VS%20The%20World%20-%20VS%20Lucas%20Lee%20(Evil%20Ex%20#2)%20HD

                60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                berylrunner


                Rick

                  My experience has been a 15 second increase on pavement.

                   

                  Interval training helped me get faster.

                  12-22   Last One Standing  - dnf 37 miles

                  1-23  Sun Marathon - 3:53

                  3-4-23  Red Mountain 55k - 7:02

                  4-15-23  Zion 100 - 27:59

                   

                   

                  tom1961


                  Old , Ugly and slow

                    The trails I run on are 1 to 2 minutes a mile slower than road

                    first race sept 1977 last race sept 2007

                     

                    2019  goals   1000  miles  , 190 pounds , deadlift 400 touch my toes

                      Thanks for the feedback everyone.  I thought there would be a difference but I'm surprised at how much.  I'm looking forward to trying a run on pavement myself to compare.

                      Personal Records:

                      5K - 20:07 ran in September 2021 (The second half split during the 10K run listed below.)

                      10K - 41:10 ran in September 2021

                      8 miles - 56:15 ran in November 2021

                      Half Marathon - 1:39:06 ran in September 2020

                      ch17


                      It's Tuesday every day

                        +!, LOL!

                         

                        Jason, one factor that might take 20-30 seconds/mile off your pace when you are racing on pavement instead of running on dirt trails; Girls will be watching.

                         

                        (4:50-5:10 in video clip)

                         

                        https://hah.life/video/ylC1SEs20rDw/-/Scott%20Pilgrim%20VS%20The%20World%20-%20VS%20Lucas%20Lee%20(Evil%20Ex%20#2)%20HD

                        RunAsics


                        The Limping Jogger

                          On a hard packed trail, my pace was similar to the road.  For a softer surface or a technical trial all bets are off and you get what you get (and don't get upset).  So, my 2 cents is don't worry about trail pace vs road pace.

                           

                          If it were me, I'd transition speed work to the road (maybe some track intervals), assuming the target 10k is a road race, and do all other works on the trials.  You'll get sufficient volume of road miles from tempo workouts and intervals and you'll enjoy the easy and long runs on the trails.

                           

                          Best of luck!

                          "Only a few more laps to go and then the action will begin, unless this is the action, which it is."

                            +!, LOL!

                             

                             

                            "girls are watching" is always good for >10% speed increase for me.

                            60-64 age group  -  University of Oregon alumni  -  Irreverent and Annoying

                              When easy running on grass less than ankle high, I lose 30 to 60 seconds per mile.  I get really slow when the grass gets chest high.

                                who runs on dirt?

                                300m- 37 sec.

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