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Marathon Pace Advice (Read 732 times)


Ball of Fury

    Hi everyone!  I really wasn't sure where to post this, since it doesn't seem like the marathon group here gets much action so I am posting it in general running as well as the racing forum.  I would love any and all advice for my upcoming marathon.

     

    Shorter distance race:  10K 48:42 on Thanksgiving Day

                                              1/2 1:51:15 November 11

     

    Average mpw:  We only started the program with a base of around 30-35, and progressed up to 55 mpw.   Have been at 50 for the last 6-7 weeks.  We would have like to do a higher mileage plan but honestly, at this stage in our lives, I really don't know if it is possible for both DH and I to get much over 55 mpw.  Between my work schedule (about 60 hours most weeks) and our 2 small kiddos, we are doing the best we can right now.

    Training plan:  Hal Higdon Int 2 with a few added miles (would do 5-6 miles instead of 3-4 when he called for it).  I have tried to get in a midweek long run every week but didn't get much over 10-11 miles during the week.

    Race:  Disney...a bit crowded but we are in Corral B so shouldn't be bad.  Very flat.

    How long have you been running:  Just about a year.  The Disney Marathon Relay in January 2012 was the first race we ever trained for.

    How many marathons have you run:  This is my first

    Age/sex:  35, female

    Pace of long runs:  Typically 9:45/mile, but probably a bit too fast at times.  I ran my 20 miler a couple weeks ago with 9:45 the first 10 miles and then 9:25-9:30 the last 10.

    Goal:  I would like to say I just want to finish, but let's be honest...I would be lying!  If I am being truthful, my goal is between 3:55-4.  I think I have the speed for that, but am not sure I have the endurance just yet.

     

    So that's it!  Any and all advice would be great appreciated!

    PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15


    A Saucy Wench

      I think 4 is reasonable.  What you have to decide is if you want to risk the possibility of a crash and burn or not.  If you just want the good first experience, hold your pace down slower than 4 for the first half. If you want to go for it, stick nearer the 4 hr end.

       

      Dont waste a lot of energy trying to thread through the crowd at the beginning.  It WILL settle out in a mile or so and the energy you waste in jostling for position is wasted energy.  Dont push the pace.  You have the speed to go out on a 3:45 pace and feel "easy" and you will hate life if you do.  Hold it down to the 4 hr end of your range until ~ 15-16 then you can decide if you want to pick up.

       

      Dont panic if you get stuck behind the crowd at the beginning - give yourself the race to make up the time, not a few miles.  i.e. if your first mile with the crowd is 10:09 - you need to make up 60 seconds...over the next 20 miles that is 3 seconds per mile, doable.  Again, you have the speed to make up that minute in a couple miles, but DONT DO IT.

      I have become Death, the destroyer of electronic gadgets

       

      "When I got too tired to run anymore I just pretended I wasnt tired and kept running anyway" - dd, age 7

        It depends on whether you release the BALL OF FURY over the last 6 miles. If so, sub 4 is in the bag.

         

        If you release it anytime before then, you will be consumed by your own fiery flames.


        Ball of Fury

          It depends on whether you release the BALL OF FURY over the last 6 miles. If so, sub 4 is in the bag.

           

          If you release it anytime before then, you will be consumed by your own fiery flames.

           

          LMAO....I have been consumed in them before...I really don't want to get burned this time!

          PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15


          Queen of 3rd Place

            Some of the best advice I've read here many times is to take the first one slowly and enjoy it. At Disney, enjoy the few spots where there's crowd support, especially in the Main Street section of the Magic Kingdom. You won't be in the MK long! Find a clear spot coming through the castle and get a good photo. Pose with some characters. Leaving the Magic Kingdom, check out the snarky signage as you make your way to the Animal Kingdom. Maybe get a pic with some of the animals.

             

            You should know that over much of the last 10 miles, after you leave the Animal Kingdom, you'll be out on what's essentially a highway, heading into the sun. and it can be hot by that time. That is also where you'll see the carnage begin, with many people looking like they've suddenly entered the Unhappiest Place on Earth. Don't be one of those people! Have a blast and go back for the Goofy!

            2013 Valley Runner of the Year Series: Feb 16 5K (4 points out of 10) ... Mar 2 10K (20/30)... Mar 16 4Mi (21/30) ... Apr 6 10K (DNS) ... Apr 21 2Mi (5/10) ... May 11 5Mi (21/30)... Jun 8 1Mi (13/20) ... Jun 16 6Mi (22/30) ... Sep 28 10K (14/20) ... Oct 5 5K (7/10) ...Oct 12 5Mi (16/20) ... Oct 20 5K (0/10) = 3rd Place, Women's Senior Division


            Ball of Fury

              Some of the best advice I've read here many times is to take the first one slowly and enjoy it. At Disney, enjoy the few spots where there's crowd support, especially in the Main Street section of the Magic Kingdom. You won't be in the MK long! Find a clear spot coming through the castle and get a good photo. Pose with some characters. Leaving the Magic Kingdom, check out the snarky signage as you make your way to the Animal Kingdom. Maybe get a pic with some of the animals.

               

              You should know that over much of the last 10 miles, after you leave the Animal Kingdom, you'll be out on what's essentially a highway, heading into the sun. and it can be hot by that time. That is also where you'll see the carnage begin, with many people looking like they've suddenly entered the Unhappiest Place on Earth. Don't be one of those people! Have a blast and go back for the Goofy!

               

              Thanks so much for the advice!  They have changed the course this year so that mile 20 is at the Wide World of Sports with some sort of "spectacular surprise" so hopefully that will break up the monotony!

              PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15

                Most pace calculators are too aggressive for the first time marathon.  For a conservative estimate, try this:  take your pace per mile from a recent 10K, treat that time as hours:minutes rather than minutes:seconds, and divide by 2.  In your case, 7:51 => 3:55:30.

                 

                Be sure to avoid the two cardinal sins: going out too fast (especially trying to make up time from the slow start), and doing something on race day that you haven't done on a long run (usually different shoes, clothing, and fuel).

                2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.


                Queen of 3rd Place

                  That's a good change on that course.

                   

                  Oh my. I also see that Suzy Favor-Hamilton is a scheduled Expo Speaker.

                  2013 Valley Runner of the Year Series: Feb 16 5K (4 points out of 10) ... Mar 2 10K (20/30)... Mar 16 4Mi (21/30) ... Apr 6 10K (DNS) ... Apr 21 2Mi (5/10) ... May 11 5Mi (21/30)... Jun 8 1Mi (13/20) ... Jun 16 6Mi (22/30) ... Sep 28 10K (14/20) ... Oct 5 5K (7/10) ...Oct 12 5Mi (16/20) ... Oct 20 5K (0/10) = 3rd Place, Women's Senior Division


                  Ball of Fury

                    That's a good change on that course.

                     

                    Oh my. I also see that Suzy Favor-Hamilton is a scheduled Expo Speaker.

                     

                    Do you think she will be giving advice on how to run a call girl business in Vegas?

                    PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15


                    Ball of Fury

                      Most pace calculators are too aggressive for the first time marathon.  For a conservative estimate, try this:  take your pace per mile from a recent 10K, treat that time as hours:minutes rather than minutes:seconds, and divide by 2.  In your case, 7:51 => 3:55:30.

                       

                      Be sure to avoid the two cardinal sins: going out too fast (especially trying to make up time from the slow start), and doing something on race day that you haven't done on a long run (usually different shoes, clothing, and fuel).

                       

                      Thank you!  I almost always go out too fast so I REALLY want to try to get this one right!

                      PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15

                      Longboat


                      Letting off steam

                        (Answered also on your General Running thread)

                         

                        Most pace calculators are too aggressive for the first time marathon.  For a conservative estimate, try this:  take your pace per mile from a recent 10K, treat that time as hours:minutes rather than minutes:seconds, and divide by 2.  In your case, 7:51 => 3:55:30.

                         

                        Be sure to avoid the two cardinal sins: going out too fast (especially trying to make up time from the slow start), and doing something on race day that you haven't done on a long run (usually different shoes, clothing, and fuel).

                         

                        This is an interesting way to calculate from a 10k, and it does generate a goal 10 minutes slower than most calculators.  However, it ignores how well a runner's training has prepared her for that marathon.  At, say, 60 mpw for the entire cycle, I'd probably go along.


                        Your (AmiK's) recent half is "equivalent" to a 3:55 full.   To attempt a full at an equivalent pace would say you are "equally trained" for the full as for the half.  To me, training starting from 35 mpw and peaking at 55, does not meet this test.  Considering also that you have substantial drop in pace from the 10k to the half, I believe starting at 9:30 (4:10 pace) would make sense.  Possibly you can pick up a little time later in the race, but I'd be cautious on that, as "feeling good" can go to "oh shit" within a mile.

                        Neil

                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        Nearly back to 100% 6 months after Achilles surgery. Now at 35 50 mpw.

                        Base building time!


                        Ball of Fury

                          Thank you Longboat!  I know it is definitely a close call whether I can do 4 or 4:10...unfortunately, there's no way to really know is there?

                          PRs:  5K 22:59, 10K 46:54,HM: 1:51:15

                            I would suggest going with the view of enjoying your first Marathon and not getting too fixated on x finish time. Don't go out too fast, run your own race and base your pace on what you know based on your training runs and warm up races.

                             

                            I have been lucky enough to be a 4hr and 4:10 pacer last year including NYC Marathon, and the amount of people who suddenly decided

                            to go for sub 4:10 and to have them drop off and not have a pleasant race around the 16 - 18mile mark was really hard for them and me, so my advice is based on some experience.

                             

                            I hope your training goes really well, I would suggest going over to the CLIF Bar Pace Team facebook page to ask for some advice, Star is the organiser for Disney (I believe) and has 100+ Marathons under her belt, so ask her advice and she will let you know on who the Pacers will be etc as generally they will make your race day experience even more enjoyable (not that I am biased on my view of Pacers Big grin).

                             

                            Happy Running.

                            PB's

                            1mile: 5:36 - 20/06/2012 - Arethusa Mile (Bushy Park)

                            5K: 18:55 - 24/07/11 - Bushy Park

                            10K: 39:15 - 19/03/11 - 2nd 10k of below race

                            Half Mara: 1:26.50 - 19/03/11 - Dorney Lake 1:26.50)

                            Mara: 3:12.50 - 04/062012 - Kent Roadrunner

                            50k (Trail): 4:34.37 - 12/08/2012 - Salisbury 54321

                            50miles (Trail): 7:27.43 - 04/02/2012 - Thames Trot 50

                            100miles (Trail): 22:14.10 - 03/03/2012 - Thamespath 100 (102miles)

                               

                               

                              This is an interesting way to calculate from a 10k, and it does generate a goal 10 minutes slower than most calculators.  However, it ignores how well a runner's training has prepared her for that marathon.

                               

                              I agree completely.  If one only ever runs 10Ks, then this marathon estimate is an automatic fail.  On the other hand, set the goal too soft, and that can leave a bad taste.  Most that have put months into training for a race will pick a goal that is challenging.  Not to pick on AmiK, but here is how I might arrange the goal times:

                               

                              Super-secret won't tell anyone else stars have aligned VDOT Daniel's estimate:  3:45

                              Ambitious but not unrealistic 10K/2 estimate:  3:55

                              Time to be satisfied with, not great but not bad:  4:10

                              2013 H1:  7 hours/week base.  Q3: Train for goal race.  Q4:  Goal Race.

                                I hope you have carb-intake plan during the marathon sorted out .. allow yourself a few seconds at each drink station that you do pass by .. personally i slow down a bit .. grab a cup and keep taking just a few sips (about 1/2 a cup, 70-100ml or so i think) every 3 kms .. what i dont do is grind to a halt at aid stations because i have tried that before (stop to drink, or walk through a station etc) and have found getting restarted on the run to be quite difficult so you need to experiment with this a bit in your long runs - can you take a gel on the run? can you hydrate on the run etc etc .. this is quite individualistic ... so when you do do your pace math, it would be prudent to account for these things ...

                                 

                                But if there was only one advice that i would reiterate, it is that dont go out too fast and ENJOY your first marathon.

                                I dont sweat. I ooze liquid awesome.

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